Wages and Poverty

[Curious George]

I know the terminology.
Don't double down on ignorance.

It seems to me that is what you are doing. Does that mean we are going to agree to disagree?

Why not focus on the rest. Are you trying to say that real property does not typically increase in value at a greater rate than inflation?

If not then purchasing real property without renters is profitable.

This directly contradicts your earlier statement that it os not profitable.

I said that your statement was blatantly false. It seems to me you have done nothing to dispute that but instead just tried to throw a couple ad hominems my way.

 

[Revoltingest]

It seems to me that is what you are doing.

Criminy...every burger flipper & fry super sizer on the internet
is an expert on real estate.
You claimed that "real property" doesn't include buildings,
ie, that it's only land....utterly ridiculous & ignant. Here is
some remedial info....
Real property - Wikipedia
Excerpted...
In English common law, real property, real estate, realty, or immovable
property is land which is the property of some person and all structures
(also called improvements or fixtures) integrated with or affixed to the land,
including crops, buildings, machinery, wells, dams, ponds, mines, canals,
and roads, among other things.


There are some differences in Louisana because its civil law is based
upon Spanish & French stuff rather than English common law. (Federal
law adds another layer of complexity because of English common law.)

 

[Curious George]

Criminy...every burger flipper & fry super sizer on the internet
is an expert on real estate.
Your trying to claim that "real property" doesn't include buildings,
ie, that it's only land....utterly ridiculous & ignant. Try this....
Real property - Wikipedia

At which point did i say that buildings were not considered real property?

 

[Kfox]

Actually during that time the vast difference between the rich and poor escalated.

No it did not. Bill Gates (the richest man during that time) lost $25 Billion in just a few years, the poor lost nowhere near that amount. When the economy tanks, most of that lost comes from the rich because they have more to lose. When the economy expands, most of that expansion goes to the rich because they have more invested in the economy.

Though that was also a drastic event. Though every time in our history the larger percentage of wealth held by the top percentage has always meant the middle and lower classes suffered.

Wrong again. Nobody becomes rich by taking from the poor. When people become rich, some of that does trickle down and help the middle class and poor.

 

[Curious George]

Criminy...every burger flipper & fry super sizer on the internet
is an expert on real estate.
You claimed that "real property" doesn't include buildings,
ie, that it's only land....utterly ridiculous & ignant. Try this....
Real property - Wikipedia
Excerpted...
In English common law, real property, real estate, realty, or immovable property is land which is the property of some person and all structures (also called improvements or fixtures) integrated with or affixed to the land, including crops, buildings, machinery, wells, dams, ponds, mines, canals, and roads, among other things.

We are literally discussing landlord and tenants...the majority of the time such discussions are discussing buildings....i have no idea where you got turned around

 

[Revoltingest]

At which point did i say that buildings were not considered real property?

Your post #130...
"Real property is a finite resource."

 

[Revoltingest]

We are literally discussing landlord and tenants...the majority of the time such discussions are discussing buildings....i have no idea where you got turned around

Answering your posts is like trying to nail Jello to a wall.

 

[Curious George]

Your post #130...
"Real property is a finite resource."

Real property is a finite resource. Save some exceptions such as timber.

Real property requires and includes land. There is only so much. This does not mean buildings are not real property.

 

[Friend of Mara]

No it did not. Bill Gates (the richest man during that time) lost $25 Billion in just a few years, the poor lost nowhere near that amount. When the economy tanks, most of that lost comes from the rich because they have more to lose. When the economy expands, most of that expansion goes to the rich because they have more invested in the economy.

We can argue about a specific event but that doesn't detract from my point. During times where the gap is lower the middle and lower classes are doing well. If you want to argue about a specific event I still disagree with you but you are missing the point.

Wrong again. Nobody becomes rich by taking from the poor. When people become rich, some of that does trickle down and help the middle class and poor.

Every single rich person in the world has done it by taking from those poorer than them. Usually through exploration of their wages.

 

[Friend of Mara]

The definition of "vacant" would affect the number.
I searched, & found one source that answers your query...
How Many Vacant Homes Are There in America? (2022 Update) | House Grail
Where I live, there is much remodeling & new construction.
Why?
Interest rates are low.
Demand is there.

I disagree but I feel we have reached where we are going to on this topic. If you wouldn't mind a slight shift then.

Assuming no issues with the above argument in your favor why is it that the housing market has failed to house people on a scale never before seen in America currently? And why is it one of the most profitable at the same time? It would be like having starving people but a booming agricultural economy. I can't square that.

 

[Kfox]

We can argue about a specific event but that doesn't detract from my point. During times where the gap is lower the middle and lower classes are doing well..

Can you give an example (within the past half century or so) when this has happened? Do you believe the middle income and lower income has less because the super rich has more?

Every single rich person in the world has done it by taking from those poorer than them. Usually through exploration of their wages.

Then you should be able to give examples (within the past half century or so) when this has happened right?

 

[Revoltingest]

I disagree but I feel we have reached where we are going to on this topic. If you wouldn't mind a slight shift then.

Are you disagreeing with the existence of much
new construction, or with the reasons for it?

Assuming no issues with the above argument in your favor why is it that the housing market has failed to house people on a scale never before seen in America currently? And why is it one of the most profitable at the same time? It would be like having starving people but a booming agricultural economy. I can't square that.

The market doesn't "house" people.
It provides housing for those who buy or rent it.
And it's successful at that.

There are difficulties related to government making housing
more expensive than it need be....
- Local governments often greatly restrict building & expansion.
That's been a problem in my town, eg, illegality of adding
mother-in-law apartments to a house, zoning laws preventing
full occupancy of rentals.
- Building permit fees have been raised to be an income source,
rather than covering the cost of administration & inspection.
- Local governments banning the tiny house movement &
mobile homes.

Some people can't afford the kind of housing that government
requires. Some people can't afford any housing. Government
could provide adequate assistance, but it often doesn't.

 

[Kooky]

No it did not. Bill Gates (the richest man during that time) lost $25 Billion in just a few years, the poor lost nowhere near that amount. When the economy tanks, most of that lost comes from the rich because they have more to lose. When the economy expands, most of that expansion goes to the rich because they have more invested in the economy.

That's not a general rule, but has more to do with the nature of risky investments.
By comparison COVID-19 both tanked the global economy and benefitted billionaires to a disproportional degree:

According to Institute for Policy Studies analysis of Forbes data, the combined wealth of all U.S. billionaires increased by $2.071 trillion (70.3 percent) between March 18, 2020 and Ocobter 15, 2021, from approximately $2.947 trillion to $5.019 trillion. Of the more than 700 U.S. billionaires, the richest five (Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg, Larry Page, and Elon Musk) saw an 123 percent increase in their combined wealth during this period, from $349 billion to $779 billion.

Get the Facts on Inequality and Covid-19

 

[Friend of Mara]

Can you give an example (within the past half century or so) when this has happened? Do you believe the middle income and lower income has less because the super rich has more?

Its almost a direct line this entire half century of increasing inequality and a worsening situation for the middle and lower classes in America.

Do you want the last 30 years? The average househould income in 1990 was about 50k . In todays money that is worth about 106k in today's money. The average household income is just over half of that. We have effectively lost half of our buying power. We are more than 3x as productive per worker today. The GDP has grown more than the inflation which means we have vastly more wealth than we did even when calculating inflation. And yet the middle class and lower are poorer now than they have been in decades.

Then you should be able to give examples (within the past half century or so) when this has happened right?

Every single employer is actively doing it right now.

 

[Friend of Mara]

Are you disagreeing with the existence of much
new construction, or with the reasons for it?

Yes and no. We need to build more housing to keep the market affordable but we also need to make sure the housing built can be purchased by the average person rather than a handful of landlords.

The market doesn't "house" people.
It provides housing for those who buy or rent it.
And it's successful at that.

So it does not fill the need. End of story.

There are difficulties related to government making housing
more expensive than it need be....
- Local governments often greatly restrict building & expansion.
That's been a problem in my town, eg, illegality of adding
mother-in-law apartments to a house, zoning laws preventing
full occupancy of rentals.
- Building permit fees have been raised to be an income source,
rather than covering the cost of administration & inspection.
- Local governments banning the tiny house movement &
mobile homes.

And these are proposals I could get behind but it just doesn't seem to be enough

Some people can't afford the kind of housing that government
requires. Some people can't afford any housing. Government
could provide adequate assistance, but it often doesn't.

I also agree.

 

[Kooky]

When you gain some experience in the real world,
carrying your own weight, instead of depending upon
government largesse, then....only then may you
lecture me about the evils of capitalism.

You're probably correct, I should make other people pay for my house like a landlord, instead of working a job where I actually have to show up and put in the effort to get paid, like a sucker.

 

[Revoltingest]

You're probably correct, I should make other people pay for my house like a landlord, instead of working a job where I actually have to show up and put in the effort to get paid, like a sucker.

Or you could get a job that supports you,
& even pays for your housing cost. I find
that such independence is embiggening.

 

[Kooky]

Or you could get a job that supports you,
& even pays for your housing cost. I find
that such independence is embiggening.

When have you last had a job where you had to work to earn a living? 1960?

 

[Revoltingest]

When have you last had a job where you had to work to earn a living? 1960?

Hard to say.
I gradually did less engineering contracting as
I got more & more into real estate investment.
But even engineering was more of a business
because I quickly found out I wasn't employee
material. I needed independence & change.

 

[Kooky]

Hard to say.
I gradually did less engineering contracting as
I got more & more into real estate investment.
But even engineering was more of a business
because I quickly found out I wasn't employee
material. I needed independence & change.

So why exactly do you look down on people who work more and earn less than you do?