Wages and Poverty

[Friend of Mara]

I am interested in the responses of all different sides of the political spectrum. TBH I'm not sure where I am with this and have no real answers.

As the economy exists there are jobs that only pay poverty wages. Therefore poverty exists even within the working class. This seems a totally separate issue from disabled people, homeless/jobless people. I am so far only able to come up with three possible conclusions. Not answers but just conclusions about the current state of affairs.

1 These poverty jobs are jobs that are not worth doing and people should shift to only jobs that pay enough.

2 These poverty jobs are jobs worth doing or are necessary and therefore need to be paid enough to not live in poverty.

3 A portion of our working class is simply required to be in poverty.

Is there a hidden 4th option I missed?

 

[Revoltingest]

Is there a hidden 4th option I missed?

Guaranteed basic income.
It's the most libertarian solution I've yet seen.

 

[SomeRandom]

I am interested in the responses of all different sides of the political spectrum. TBH I'm not sure where I am with this and have no real answers.

As the economy exists there are jobs that only pay poverty wages. Therefore poverty exists even within the working class. This seems a totally separate issue from disabled people, homeless/jobless people. I am so far only able to come up with three possible conclusions. Not answers but just conclusions about the current state of affairs.

1 These poverty jobs are jobs that are not worth doing and people should shift to only jobs that pay enough.

2 These poverty jobs are jobs worth doing or are necessary and therefore need to be paid enough to not live in poverty.

3 A portion of our working class is simply required to be in poverty.

Is there a hidden 4th option I missed?

I don’t think people should live pay check to pay check. Everyone needs to eat.
I think every job should pay a liveable wage. The higher wages should be for sought after jobs.
I also understand that the US doesn’t have a nationally agreed upon base level leaves that all employers must give (annual, sick, maternity etc) which is bizarre to me. But whatever.

I do remember that in my first job, wages were dependant on whether one was casual (slightly higher hourly because there was an understanding of no leave) but it was also dependant on age. The younger you were, the less hourly wage. Also more restrictions on hours due to child labour laws.

This was because it’s recognised that kids need a starting job and it’s assumed they still live at home and are probably studying. So it’s just a bit of extra money in the pocket and to teach balance with adding responsibilities.
Adults need a higher hourly wage due to needing a liveable wage. So they got more hourly by default.
I think that’s a good compromise, although it is often exploited by employers.

 

[Friend of Mara]

Guaranteed basic income.
It's the most libertarian solution I've yet seen.

Agreed on that as well. In addition to some other changes as well.


Though a negative note on guaranteed basic income is still addressing inequality. I like the idea but there are probably some kinks we have to work out on the way as well.

 

[Revoltingest]

My first job was about $1/hour (as I recall).
I wouldn't be able to live on it, but I didn't need to.
I wasn't really worth more than that.
Had my employer been required to pay a
living wage, the job wouldn't exist (chasing
golf balls on a golf course).
I was willing to work for it. He was willing to pay it.

Oh, I made about the same picking up fallen apples.
(They're good for cider.) Dang....that was a while ago.
A dollar was a real dollar in the 50s & 60s.

Edit:
Don't mind me. It's just me going on.
No real significance here. I'll stop now.

 

[tytlyf]

The solution is to avoid electing representatives that are anti-wage increase (Republican). They're also anti-science, anti-regulation, anti-oversight, anti-union, etc.
Most die-hard capitalists are against wage increases. Profit over people.

 

[Secret Chief]

A portion of our working class is simply required to be in poverty.

A portion of our working class is required to be unemployed in a capitalist economy.

 

[sun rise]

Guaranteed basic income.
It's the most libertarian solution I've yet seen.

I'm willing to consider that.

 

[sun rise]

My first job was about $1/hour (as I recall).

As was mine in that era. Gas was 29.9/gallon back then.

 

[Revoltingest]

As was mine in that era. Gas was 29.9/gallon back then.

Aye, it was high.
I remember it being under $.20.

 

[Nakosis]

I am interested in the responses of all different sides of the political spectrum. TBH I'm not sure where I am with this and have no real answers.

As the economy exists there are jobs that only pay poverty wages. Therefore poverty exists even within the working class. This seems a totally separate issue from disabled people, homeless/jobless people. I am so far only able to come up with three possible conclusions. Not answers but just conclusions about the current state of affairs.

1 These poverty jobs are jobs that are not worth doing and people should shift to only jobs that pay enough.

2 These poverty jobs are jobs worth doing or are necessary and therefore need to be paid enough to not live in poverty.

3 A portion of our working class is simply required to be in poverty.

Is there a hidden 4th option I missed?

Automation/robots to replace these workers at low paying wages.
Then take the workers and teach them needed trade skills.

So I guess this would be the same as number one.

 

[Nakosis]

My first job was about $1/hour (as I recall).
I wouldn't be able to live on it, but I didn't need to.
I wasn't really worth more than that.
Had my employer been required to pay a
living wage, the job wouldn't exist (chasing
golf balls on a golf course).
I was willing to work for it. He was willing to pay it.

Oh, I made about the same picking up fallen apples.
(They're good for cider.) Dang....that was a while ago.
A dollar was a real dollar in the 50s & 60s.

Edit:
Don't mind me. It's just me going on.
No real significance here. I'll stop now.

I made $2.10 an hour as a phone operator and did live on that.
Had no car though and walked everywhere until I could afford a bike.
Eventually saved enough to afford a used moped if anyone remembers those things.

 

[danieldemol]

Guaranteed basic income.
It's the most libertarian solution I've yet seen.

Would a GBI cover those unable to work?

If so how would you fund it (as in would it involve taxing those with excess?)

 

[Revoltingest]

I made $2.10 an hour as a phone operator and did live on that.
Had no car though and walked everywhere until I could afford a bike.
Eventually saved enough to afford a used moped if anyone remembers those things.

Moped.....that's a term for the girl everyone
wants to ride, but doesn't want to be seen on.

 

[Revoltingest]

Would a GBI cover those unable to work?

That's my plan.

If so how would you fund it (as in would it involve taxing those with excess?)

Funding....
Less spent on policing the world.
Supplanting many newly redundant social programs.

 

[Nakosis]

Would a GBI cover those unable to work?

If so how would you fund it (as in would it involve taxing those with excess?)

How about make all politicians get only paid GBI including the President. That ought to save a few bucks.

 

[Stevicus]

I am interested in the responses of all different sides of the political spectrum. TBH I'm not sure where I am with this and have no real answers.

As the economy exists there are jobs that only pay poverty wages. Therefore poverty exists even within the working class. This seems a totally separate issue from disabled people, homeless/jobless people. I am so far only able to come up with three possible conclusions. Not answers but just conclusions about the current state of affairs.

1 These poverty jobs are jobs that are not worth doing and people should shift to only jobs that pay enough.

2 These poverty jobs are jobs worth doing or are necessary and therefore need to be paid enough to not live in poverty.

3 A portion of our working class is simply required to be in poverty.

Is there a hidden 4th option I missed?

There does appear to be upward pressure on wages these days. Even if these are poverty jobs, they're still apparently fulfilling necessary functions. But many of those jobs are going vacant in recent months.

Another thing that I've noticed, at least in our culture here in America, is that there is far less appreciation for working people than I remember there once was. The pay is bad enough, but there's only so much crap people are willing to take on top of that. I've read about a number of recent instances where the entire staff of restaurants quit en masse, not necessarily because of the pay (although that's part of it), but because of rude and nasty customers.

As for the fourth option, I think all workers should get together and form a giant labor union.

 

[Kfox]

I am interested in the responses of all different sides of the political spectrum. TBH I'm not sure where I am with this and have no real answers.

As the economy exists there are jobs that only pay poverty wages. Therefore poverty exists even within the working class. This seems a totally separate issue from disabled people, homeless/jobless people. I am so far only able to come up with three possible conclusions. Not answers but just conclusions about the current state of affairs.

1 These poverty jobs are jobs that are not worth doing and people should shift to only jobs that pay enough.

2 These poverty jobs are jobs worth doing or are necessary and therefore need to be paid enough to not live in poverty.

3 A portion of our working class is simply required to be in poverty.

Is there a hidden 4th option I missed?

I think what you call poverty jobs, I call “starter jobs”. Most good jobs require some type of experience or they won’t hire you, but starter jobs (poverty jobs) usually don’t require experience, they will hire you and teach you to do the job. They are starter jobs because a person with no experience can get a starter job, get skills then take those skills to a higher paying job that requires experience, and you can get a job you never would have been able to get had it not been for the starter job

 

[Kfox]

Guaranteed basic income.
It's the most libertarian solution I've yet seen.

So what happens when everybody jumps on the bandwagon, and there is nobody left to pull?

 

[Revoltingest]

So what happens when everybody jumps on the bandwagon, and there is nobody left to pull?

What bandwagon?