Was Albert Einstein an atheist

[Prometheus85]

What are you talking about?

The biblical God is not a deistic God, not even remotely close. If you think that then your very ignorant.

 

[Jollybear]

What the hell is “quote gathering” did u pull that out your rectum?
Also the very definition of deism is to believe in a personal god. It just you don’t believe in a personal relationship with god. Smh

Excuse me? Your using the words qoute mining as to mean i twist and take einsteins qoutes out of context and thats not what ive done.

Actually, NO, the definition of deism is NOT belief in a personal God. The first definition you gave was correct, now your changing what you said, whats up?

And i dont believe in a personal relationship with God? Wait a minute, are you telling me WHAT i believe? You better back up in reverse there.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

So, after all has been said and discussed, do you concede einstein is a deist?

Sorry, I didn't see exactly where Einstein said "I am a Deist, nothing else."

BTW, also didn't see where he said "I believe that God is a spirit or a being." Can you link me up with that?

In doing a very little online research to refresh my memory, however, I do see that he's claimed--often citing many of the exact same passages--as Jewish, Christian, Deist, pantheist, atheist and agnostic...and maybe a few more.

What is clear reading the excerpts that have been presented here, he had views that are hard to pigeonhole, and he described his views in relation to several specific formulations of deity and religion over a period of approximately his entire adult life, which resulted in many statements.

So, until I see a quote from him saying "I am a deist, nothing else better describes my views," I'll withhold judgment...and based on the wide variety of quotations provided, I still might withhold judgment...

Because, to me, pigeonholing his beliefs about god and religion is irrelevant, at best.

 

[Jollybear]

Sorry, I didn't see exactly where Einstein said "I am a Deist, nothing else."

BTW, also didn't see where he said "I believe that God is a spirit or a being." Can you link me up with that?

In doing a very little online research to refresh my memory, however, I do see that he's claimed--often citing many of the exact same passages--as Jewish, Christian, Deist, pantheist, atheist and agnostic...and maybe a few more.

What is clear reading the excerpts that have been presented here, he had views that are hard to pigeonhole, and he described his views in relation to several specific formulations of deity and religion over a period of approximately his entire adult life, which resulted in many statements.

So, until I see a quote from him saying "I am a deist, nothing else better describes my views," I'll withhold judgment...and based on the wide variety of quotations provided, I still might withhold judgment...

Because, to me, pigeonholing his beliefs about god and religion is irrelevant, at best.

He may not have said "i am a deist" but his qoutes PORTREY a deist form of God.

You did read the qoutes i gave, yes?

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

He may not have said "i am a deist" but his qoutes PORTREY a deist form of God.

You did read the qoutes i gave, yes?

Since your quotes are distributed across many pages, and I came late to this party, no I have not read every post, as I said before.

But, his quotes also portray a pantheistic form of God. And atheistism towards Abrahamic forms of God.

And agnostic in the main, because it's clear that he did not believe that he, or any other humans, would ever be able to clearly demonstrate the existence of the "God" that he was talking about.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

If you think theres a middle or another concept, do tell?

I think you're very limited in your views of possibilities if you thing it's "this or that" and some middle ground to it. What if there is a god who did create the universe by rolling 5 20-sided dice? What if there was a creator, but this being is not a god? What is something that just happens happened and here we are?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Einstein NEVER said he was or could be considered an "atheist". Thats not true.

He said this

"I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal god is a childlike one. You may call me an agnostic, but I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth. I prefer an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our own being."

As usual you are wrong:

"Dear Mr. Raner:

I received your letter of June 10th. I have never talked to a Jesuit priest in my life and I am astonished by the audacity to tell such lies about me.

From the viewpoint of a Jesuit priest I am, of course, and have always been an atheist. Your counter-arguments seem to me very correct and could hardly be better formulated. It is always misleading to use anthropomorphical3 concepts in dealing with things outside the human sphere--childish analogies. We have to admire in humility the beautiful harmony of the structure of the world--as far as we can grasp it. And that is all.

With best wishes,
yours sincerely,
/s/ A. Einstein.
Albert Einstein"

Einstein on His Personal Religious Views: Guy H. Raner - Freedom From Religion Foundation

 

[ChristineM]

Ok, lets break this down.

"The word (the word or name, not the concept and not the proper KIND of God, such as the impersonal one) God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weakness, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still purely primitive, legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this."(within context, hes talking about the personal, biblical God is childish to him, but not the deistic form of God he clearly portreyed he DID believe in via many of his other qoutes.)

Einstein was a complicated man but his religious beliefs were pretty clear, he though religion hence God with a capital G to be childish concepts. You may read whatever you want to suit your sensibilities into his writing.

As Einstein wrote and i repeat here AGAIN.
It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated.

 

[ChristineM]

The lie is that he believed in a PERSONAL, biblical God, NOT the deistic God.

He made it clear what he believed

If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Why didn’t you post the whole quote?

Because ...

• A link to the post was clearly available in the quote header and
• the part not quoted was irrelevant to my question - a question you appear unwilling to answer.

Einstein believed that "there is some kind of intelligence working its way through nature. But it is certainly not a conventional Christian or Judaic religious view."

What, precisely, does "some kind of intelligence working its way through nature" mean and where is it affirmed by Einstein?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

He may not have said "i am a deist" but his qoutes PORTREY a deist form of God.

What is a "deist form of God"?

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Cranial harassment..I wonder if he gave him a roofy, or just cornered him privately in some hotel room.

Cranial harassment happens here on RF quite a bit.

 

[Jollybear]

As usual you are wrong:

"Dear Mr. Raner:

I received your letter of June 10th. I have never talked to a Jesuit priest in my life and I am astonished by the audacity to tell such lies about me.

From the viewpoint of a Jesuit priest I am, of course, and have always been an atheist. Your counter-arguments seem to me very correct and could hardly be better formulated. It is always misleading to use anthropomorphical3 concepts in dealing with things outside the human sphere--childish analogies. We have to admire in humility the beautiful harmony of the structure of the world--as far as we can grasp it. And that is all.

With best wishes,
yours sincerely,
/s/ A. Einstein.
Albert Einstein"

Einstein on His Personal Religious Views: Guy H. Raner - Freedom From Religion Foundation

Einstein never said in this qoute that HE IS an atheist. He said FROM THE VIEWPOINT OF THE JESUIT PRIEST he is an atheist. Then in his second letter below, he clarified more by saying


"Dear Mr. Raner:

I received your letter of June 10th. I have never talked to a Jesuit priest in my life and I am astonished by the audacity to tell such lies about me.

From the viewpoint of a Jesuit priest I am, of course, and have always been an atheist. Your counter-arguments seem to me very correct and could hardly be better formulated. It is always misleading to use anthropomorphical3 concepts in dealing with things outside the human sphere--childish analogies. We have to admire in humility the beautiful harmony of the structure of the world--as far as we can grasp it. And that is all.

With best wishes,
yours sincerely,
/s/ A. Einstein.
Albert Einstein

Four years later, on September 25, 1949, I wrote again:

Dear Dr. Einstein:

[The letter begins with a recapitulation of the prior correspondence.] I considered your letter . . . strictly personal . . . and have never permitted any of it to get into any publication, although I have showed it to a few personal friends. Last summer, [a classmate in a historiography seminar at the University of South California] remarked that such a letter is of historical value, and that I should get your permission to publish it at some future date . . . Have you any objection to its future publication, if an occasion should arise making publication possible.

[In your letter,] You say that "From the viewpoint of a Jesuit priest I am, and have always been, an atheist." Some people might interpret that to mean that to a Jesuit priest, anyone not a Roman Catholic is an atheist, and that you are in fact an orthodox Jew, or a Deist, or something else. Did you mean to leave room for such an interpretation, or are you from the viewpoint of the dictionary an atheist; i.e., "one who disbelieves in the existence of a God, or Supreme Being"? . . . . . . polls taken in high schools have indicated that about 95% of the students held orthodox religious opinions, reflecting . . . general opinion, which indicated a long, uphill climb before the mists of superstition give way to a more humanistic outlook.
Einstein's reponse, again typed by him, is dated September 28, 1949, so he must have responded almost immediately upon receiving my inquiry. It says:

Dear Mr. Raner:

I see with pleasure from your letter of the 25th that your convictions are near to my own. Trusting your sound judgment I authorize you to use my letter of July 1945 in any way you see fit.

I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal God is a childlike one. You may call me an agnostic, but I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth. 4 I prefer an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our own being.

Sincerely yours,
/s/ A. Einstein.
Albert Einstein.

And he dont mean he dont know if god exists or not by the word agnostic either, he merely means that he dont know this God personally, whom he believes exists.

 

[Prometheus85]

Because ...

• A link to the post was clearly available in the quote header and
• the part not quoted was irrelevant to my question - a question you appear unwilling to answer.

​

In Albert Einstein’s later life, he expressed a sense of wonder at the universe and its mysteries — what he called a "cosmic religious feeling" — and famously said: "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

But he also said: "I do not believe in the God of theology who rewards good and punishes evil. My God created laws that take care of that. His universe is not ruled by wishful thinking, but by immutable laws."

I believe Einstein believed that "there is some kind of intelligence working its way through nature. But it is certainly not a conventional Christian or Judaic religious view."

 

[Jollybear]

What is a "deist form of God"?

Deist form of God is an infinate spirit of intelligence that created the universe by its laws, and does not interact with the human race nor ever suspend natural laws via miracles.

 

[Prometheus85]

Deist form of God is an infinate spirit of intelligence that created the universe by its laws, and does not interact with the human race nor ever suspend natural laws via miracles.

I thought Jesus was the from of god?

“Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped.”

- Philippians 2:5–6

 

[Prometheus85]

Einstein never said in this qoute that HE IS an atheist. He said FROM THE VIEWPOINT OF THE JESUIT PRIEST he is an atheist. Then in his second letter below, he clarified more by saying


"Dear Mr. Raner:

I received your letter of June 10th. I have never talked to a Jesuit priest in my life and I am astonished by the audacity to tell such lies about me.

From the viewpoint of a Jesuit priest I am, of course, and have always been an atheist. Your counter-arguments seem to me very correct and could hardly be better formulated. It is always misleading to use anthropomorphical3 concepts in dealing with things outside the human sphere--childish analogies. We have to admire in humility the beautiful harmony of the structure of the world--as far as we can grasp it. And that is all.

With best wishes,
yours sincerely,
/s/ A. Einstein.
Albert Einstein

Four years later, on September 25, 1949, I wrote again:

Dear Dr. Einstein:

[The letter begins with a recapitulation of the prior correspondence.] I considered your letter . . . strictly personal . . . and have never permitted any of it to get into any publication, although I have showed it to a few personal friends. Last summer, [a classmate in a historiography seminar at the University of South California] remarked that such a letter is of historical value, and that I should get your permission to publish it at some future date . . . Have you any objection to its future publication, if an occasion should arise making publication possible.

[In your letter,] You say that "From the viewpoint of a Jesuit priest I am, and have always been, an atheist." Some people might interpret that to mean that to a Jesuit priest, anyone not a Roman Catholic is an atheist, and that you are in fact an orthodox Jew, or a Deist, or something else. Did you mean to leave room for such an interpretation, or are you from the viewpoint of the dictionary an atheist; i.e., "one who disbelieves in the existence of a God, or Supreme Being"? . . . . . . polls taken in high schools have indicated that about 95% of the students held orthodox religious opinions, reflecting . . . general opinion, which indicated a long, uphill climb before the mists of superstition give way to a more humanistic outlook.
Einstein's reponse, again typed by him, is dated September 28, 1949, so he must have responded almost immediately upon receiving my inquiry. It says:

Dear Mr. Raner:

I see with pleasure from your letter of the 25th that your convictions are near to my own. Trusting your sound judgment I authorize you to use my letter of July 1945 in any way you see fit.

I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal God is a childlike one. You may call me an agnostic, but I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth. 4 I prefer an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our own being.

Sincerely yours,
/s/ A. Einstein.
Albert Einstein.

And he dont mean he dont know if god exists or not by the word agnostic either, he merely means that he dont know this God personally, whom he believes exists.

Albert Einstein believes “god” exists u say?

The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this."
Letter to philosopher Eric Gutkind, January 3, 1954.

This seems to be a clear statement that Einstein had no belief in the Judeo-Christian God.

 

[Jollybear]

Since your quotes are distributed across many pages, and I came late to this party, no I have not read every post, as I said before.

But, his quotes also portray a pantheistic form of God. And atheistism towards Abrahamic forms of God.

And agnostic in the main, because it's clear that he did not believe that he, or any other humans, would ever be able to clearly demonstrate the existence of the "God" that he was talking about.

I got an idear, how about i give one qoute at a time and we see if you think hes a deist or not. Discussing all qoutes may be too much work all at once.

"can answer simply with yes or no. I am not an Atheist. I do not know if I can define myself as a Pantheist. The problem involved is too vast for our limited minds. May I not reply with a parable? The human mind, no matter how highly trained, cannot grasp the universe. We are in the position of a little child, entering a huge library whose walls are covered to the ceiling with books in many different tongues. The child knows that someone must have written those books. It does not know who or how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. The child notes a definite plan in the arrangement of the books, a mysterious order, which it does not comprehend, but only dimly suspects. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of the human mind, even the greatest and most cultured, toward God. We see a universe marvelously arranged, obeying certain laws, but we understand the laws only dimly. Our limited minds cannot grasp the mysterious force that sways the constellations. I am fascinated by Spinoza's Pantheism. I admire even more his contributions to modern thought. Spinoza is the greatest of modern philosophers, because he is the first philosopher who deals with the soul and the body as one, not as two separate things."

Quote by Albert Einstein: “Your question is the most difficult in the worl...”

So, from this do you see him as a deist?

 

[Jollybear]

I thought Jesus was the from of god?

“Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped.”

- Philippians 2:5–6

Im not talking about Jesus or the biblical God. Im defining and talking about deism.

 

[Jollybear]

Albert Einstein believes “god” exists u say?

The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this."
Letter to philosopher Eric Gutkind, January 3, 1954.

This seems to be a clear statement that Einstein had no belief in the Judeo-Christian God.

Once again, you stubbornly misrepresent what im saying einstein is saying.

I never said einstein believed in the judeo/Christian personal God. In fact i went out of my way to specifically say he DID NOT believe in a personal biblical God.

"The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can"

Whats childish to einstein is this personal, biblical god.