This tax is acceptance that you have been subdued/conquered and was certainly brought by the help of a sword.
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Was Islam spread by the sword?
- Thread starter ZooGirl02
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This tax is acceptance that you have been subdued/conquered and was certainly brought by the help of a sword.
Sabour
Well-Known Member
If you wish to know in what cases the fight is allowed in Islam, refer to the Quraan and see the conditions. Don't understand me wrong, I am not saying I don't take by the hadith, I take by all the hadith which are "sahih".
What I am saying is that no hadith ever is against what is in the Quraan but this seems to us because we don't have proper context of background of the hadith and than some people say we reject it. The way I look at it is that they are not refusing the hadith, they are refusing their interpretation of the hadith which is wrong.
From an outside perspective I cannot understand the use of the ahadith,which is sahih or not,here is another and highlighted is the part that is pertinent:
Sahih Muslim Book 019, Hadith Number 4294.
Chapter : Appointment of the leaders of expeditions by the Imam and his advice to them on etiquettes of war and related matters.
It has been reported from Sulaiman b. Buraid through his father that when the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) appointed anyone as leader of an army or detachment he would especially exhort him to fear Allah and to be good to the Muslims who were with him. He would say: Fight in the name of Allah and in the way of Allah. Fight against those who disbelieve in Allah. Make a holy war, do not embezzle the spoils ; do not break your pledge; and do not mutilate (the dead) bodies; do not kill the children. When you meet your enemies who are polytheists, invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these, you also accept it and withhold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them. Then invite them to migrate from their lands to the land of Muhairs and inform them that, if they do so, they shall have all the privileges and obligations of the Muhajirs. If they refuse to migrate, tell them that they will have the status of Bedouin Muslims and will be subjected to the Commands of Allah like other Muslims, but they will not get any share from the spoils of war or Fai' except when they actually fight with the Muslims (against the disbelievers). If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah's help and fight them. When you lay siege to a fort and the besieged appeal to you for protection in the name of Allah and His Prophet, do not accord to them the guarantee of Allah and His Prophet, but accord to them your own guarantee and the guarantee of your companions for it is a lesser sin that the security given by you or your companions be disregarded than that the security granted in the name of Allah and His Prophet be violated When you besiege a fort and the besieged want you to let them out in accordance with Allah's Command, do not let them come out in accordance with His Command, but do so at your (own) command, for you do not know whether or not you will be able to carry out Allah's behest with regard to them.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
I have checked many countries;it just happened like that.
If one likes; I could give examples.
For example:
Peaceful spread of Islam in Maldives:
The islands converted from Buddhism in the 12th century.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/islam_in_the_maldives
There was no subjugation by sword.
Regards
Sabour
Well-Known Member
Okay I was searching the Hadith in Arabic. I am not sure about what I found so just give me time to ask about it and get back to you.
On the first glance, in the Sahih Bukhari, the part which I highlighted I didn't find it there.
However I did find it in a hadith which was labelled "مرفوع" which means that this hadith may not be true. It is not Sahih.
So the way I see it is that in the Sahih boukhari, the part which you highlighted is talking about the people who accept Islam.
In the Sahih Boukhari, most probably it would be that way
invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them. Then invite them to migrate from their lands to the land of Muhairs and inform them that, if they do so, they shall have all the privileges and obligations of the Muhajirs. If they refuse to migrate, tell them that they will have the status of Bedouin Muslims and will be subjected to the Commands of Allah like other Muslims, but they will not get any share from the spoils of war or Fai' except when they actually fight with the Muslims (against the disbelievers). If they refuse, demand from them the Jizya.
Can I ask you please about the source of the hadith? I mean the website
In history Christianity did something simmilar but instead of tax they made them into dead people.
Sabour
Well-Known Member
Well I have checked some hadith in the website and I didn't find mistakes. I am surprised they got it wrong on that hadith you addressed. I checked it in Arabic again in both Sahih Boukhari and Sahih Muslims, Still didn't find the expression "if they refuse to accept islam". The only place I found it, the hadith was rated that it may be not true.
But really Thank you for the website. It will be useful.
Sabour
Well-Known Member
They are living under the protection of Muslims. In simple sense, if it were oppression it would have been more than the Zakat.
That's it though,to some sunni muslims it's true to some it's not and to some it's maybe.
Sabour
Well-Known Member
Well that is partly true as today's norm is that if it isn't logical for me on the first glance than it is not true forgetting that there are many things in Islam that one have to consider all at once. In addition, most of the times there is no understanding of the context.
The part which is not true about this that the rating is there to show that this hadith isn't to be taken by. Anything if not 100 % true, we don't take by it unless if it was for the greater good. For example, if a hadith says that the prophet used to give 5 $ everyday for charity, than we can work by it. (this is only an example)
ZooGirl02
Well-Known Member
You know, I am not sure whether or not Islam was historically spread by the sword or not but I know it is in some instances in modern days. For example, the girls from Nigeria who were kidnapped by Boko Haram were forced to convert to Islam. There have also been instances of forced conversion to Islam in Syrian civil war however there are foreign fighters there as well, some of which are extremists. Perhaps the forced conversions came from the extremists.
But anyway, I do know that the Ottoman Empire, which was Islamic of course, invaded territories in the Holy Land which were under Catholic/Orthodox control and hence the reason why the Crusades occurred. The Crusades were a set of defensive wars. The Catholic Church called for them to defend the Holy Land from Muslim invaders which I think is contrary to the belief of some. Some people seem to think that it was an offensive set of wars when in reality it was defensive.
But anyway, those are my opinions.
But anyway, I do know that the Ottoman Empire, which was Islamic of course, invaded territories in the Holy Land which were under Catholic/Orthodox control and hence the reason why the Crusades occurred. The Crusades were a set of defensive wars. The Catholic Church called for them to defend the Holy Land from Muslim invaders which I think is contrary to the belief of some. Some people seem to think that it was an offensive set of wars when in reality it was defensive.
But anyway, those are my opinions.
Sabour
Well-Known Member
Well normally I don't discuss matters like that, but I just wanted to have my say on this. I am not writing this to debate, I am just stating my opinion.
First, these things we are talking about are easily manipulated.
Second, it is impossible for something to start with a man who uses a sword to spread things, and succeed in it.
Third, media blows things out of proportion and focuses on whatever they want to focus on.
Forth, and most important, please have a look at my signature. This is what the media does.
My general approach is that I don't argue about what muslims are doing or "seem" to do because not every person labeled a muslim is actually a muslim.
Anyways, as I said, I won't be debating these points, I just wanted to make my stand clear.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Yes that is doing of the extremists under cover of religion.
That is against the teaching of Quran/Islam/Muhammad.
Islam spread in the world peacefully.
Peaceful spread of Islam in Indonesia:
Islam is the dominant religion in Indonesia, which also has a larger Muslim population than any other country in the world, with approximately 202.9 million identified as Muslim (88.2% of Indonesia's total population of 237 million).
There is evidence of Arab Muslim traders entering Indonesia as early as the 8th century.[5] Indonesia's historical inhabitants were animists, Hindus and Buddhists.[6] However it was not until the end of the 13th century that the spread of Islam began.[5]
The spread, although at first introduced through Arab Muslim traders, continued to saturate through the Indonesian people as local rulers and royalty began to adopt it, subsequently their subjects would mirror their conversion. The spread of Islam continued as Muslim traders married the local women, with some of the wealthier traders marrying into the families of the ruling elite.[7]
In general, traders and the royalty of major kingdoms were the first to adopt the new religion. By the end of the thirteenth century, Islam had been established in Northern Sumatra; by the fourteenth in northeast Malaya, Brunei, the southwestern Philippines and among some courts of coastal East and Central Java; and the fifteenth in Malacca and other areas of the Malay Peninsula. Dominant kingdoms included Samudra Pasai in northern Sumatra, Demak Sultanate and Mataram inCentral Java, and the sultanates of Ternate and Tidore in the Maluku Islands to the east.
Through assimilation related to trade, royal conversion, and conquest, Islam had supplanted Hinduism and Buddhism as the dominant religion of Java and Sumatra by the end of the 16th century. The eastern islands remained largely animist until adopting Islam and Christianity in the 17th and 18th centuries, whereas Bali still retains a Hindu majority.[8] During this process "cultural influences from the Hindu-Buddhist era were mostly tolerated or incorporated into Islamic rituals".[5]
Islam in Indonesia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Regards
FearGod
Freedom Of Mind
The hadith doesn't make sense,as it assumes in advance that the Muslim army is the winner in all battles and then asking the disbelievers to accept Islam while fighting, how silly is it, how to fight and call to Islam at the same moment, what kind of war is it ?
Imagine i am a muslim worrier and fighting the disbeliever then asking him "accept Islam or i'll kill you", how funny it is, how am i sure that i can kill him and not the contrary.
I don't accept those kind of hadith.
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mahasn ebn sawresho
Well-Known Member
to england mylionhert
I am very sad to England --- Today --- because Islam was able to penetrate into the body --- and England will die if not treated the same by the disease
I am very sad to England --- Today --- because Islam was able to penetrate into the body --- and England will die if not treated the same by the disease
mahasn ebn sawresho
Well-Known Member
to england my lionherd
Here the type of misinformation ----
Tribute differ from the tax ----
Tribute in Islamic law ---
Means that which is paid from those who they do not believe in the Islamic religion
Christian - Jewish - Sabian --- Yazidi - pagan ---
Either tax or Zakat is one of the Muslims, who do not believe in Islam ---
Who does not believe in Islam pays the two types --And also says there is a concept -
The countries which are Muslim countries war ---
And countries ruled by Islam is Peace countries ---
This principle or concept is taught in all the schools of Islamic and legal -
It has a special chapter ---
Is called. -
House of War and Peace House . دار الحرب ودار السلام
Here the type of misinformation ----
Tribute differ from the tax ----
Tribute in Islamic law ---
Means that which is paid from those who they do not believe in the Islamic religion
Christian - Jewish - Sabian --- Yazidi - pagan ---
Either tax or Zakat is one of the Muslims, who do not believe in Islam ---
Who does not believe in Islam pays the two types --And also says there is a concept -
The countries which are Muslim countries war ---
And countries ruled by Islam is Peace countries ---
This principle or concept is taught in all the schools of Islamic and legal -
It has a special chapter ---
Is called. -
House of War and Peace House . دار الحرب ودار السلام
seeking4truth
Active Member
swords can bend heads but not hearts
mahasn ebn sawresho
Well-Known Member
In a matter of chatter attributed to Muhammad ---
Is is true or false ---
---
This chatter came from the Islamic heritage books
But in the modern era Muslims felt it affect the credibility of Islam
To say this is true and untrue -
But in any case -
The texts of the Koran is not where any of them and otherwise we can prove that Islam spread by the sword
Is is true or false ---
---
This chatter came from the Islamic heritage books
But in the modern era Muslims felt it affect the credibility of Islam
To say this is true and untrue -
But in any case -
The texts of the Koran is not where any of them and otherwise we can prove that Islam spread by the sword
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