Was it any use for jesus to die for sins?

[Timothy Spurlin]

Meaningless. You cant prove thst a deity is unreal, neither are you going to prove anything [proving something you don't know.

You make the claim that a god exist. You the burden of proof.

 

[Muffled]

Sin is not the cause of death.

And you think this because you can identify causes?

 

[Muffled]

Guilt is like physical pain - a sign that something has gone wrong.

I believe guilt is really bad for one's health. Repentance and acceptance of forgiveness are good for a person's health

 

[Muffled]

If your in a lot of physical pain, maybe you should see a doctor not a preist.

I believe doctors are not usually aware of spiritual causes for pain.

 

[Timothy Spurlin]

And you think this because you can identify causes?

Sin is a human construct, used to control people.
Outside of the bible saying so, prove sin causes death.

 

[Timothy Spurlin]

I believe doctors are not usually aware of spiritual causes for pain.

Prove spiritualism causes pain.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Deuteronomy 21:18-21
Now you can go read it in your bible.

I thought you were referring to 'minor children' and Not grown adult persons.
If you continue reading to Deuteronomy 21:22 that ' child ' is Not a minor but a ' man ' (adult child).
I don't think there are ' minor children' who are classed as 'gluttons and drunkards' ( verse 20 )
The ' man ' mentioned is as like the adult men and women of Deuteronomy 17:5-7 and Deuteronomy 19:15-19

 

[TheBannerofHomuraAkemi]

To me what I read ^ above ^ is more of a reading comprehension problem than anything else.
Genesis 7:2-3 is giving us more detail, such as: by sevens or seven pairs.
We might say by the sevens in meaning by seven pairs. That is why Noah could take ' some ' at Genesis 8:20.
So, to me it is Not a contradiction.

Because of the Bible's corresponding or parallel cross-reference verses and passages among the many Bible writers shows the internal harmony among its many writers.

So your saying that God after Noah had did what he was commanded Genesis 6:22 God late came back and further explained what he wanted. Yeah I'm not buying it there bud

Even if we assume you were correct in your statement. Why isn't God editing his work. Why have two chapters explaining the same thing, when only one is needed. Seems pretty convoluted for all powerful all knowing God.

But continue to do what all christian apologist do and ignored all the other contradictions I gave you.

 

[Timothy Spurlin]

I thought you were referring to 'minor children' and Not grown adult persons.
If you continue reading to Deuteronomy 21:22 that ' child ' is Not a minor but a ' man ' (adult child).
I don't think there are ' minor children' who are classed as 'gluttons and drunkards' ( verse 20 )
The ' man ' mentioned is as like the adult men and women of Deuteronomy 17:5-7 and Deuteronomy 19:15-19

You do realize that back in the OT, you were an adult at 13.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

So your saying that God after Noah had did what he was commanded Genesis 6:22 God late came back and further explained what he wanted. Yeah I'm not buying it there bud
Even if we assume you were correct in your statement. Why isn't God editing his work. Why have two chapters explaining the same thing, when only one is needed. Seems pretty convoluted for all powerful all knowing God.
But continue to do what all christian apologist do and ignored all the other contradictions I gave you.

Good grief ! Genesis 6:22 is separate from Genesis 7:2-3 because those by sevens were to be part of the Covenant or Contract God made with Noah after the Flood - Genesis 8:15-20.
Those 'clean' of Genesis 7:2-3 would be part of the 'clean' offering as found at Genesis 8:20.
What it seems 'you are Not buying' is why stop short reading at chapters 6-7 and not continue reading in chapter 8.

What other contradiction that you gave. Start with one.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

You do realize that back in the OT, you were an adult at 13.

Please post where it says age 13 is adult _______________
At age 12 Jesus was still considered a 'child' according to Luke 2:42-52
So, it seems highly unlikely Jesus became an adult at age 13.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I wonder why we do Not see anyone trying to convince or fight over the existence of pink graviton faires.

Maybe, just maybe, you don't see anyone doing that, because there are no groups of followers of pink graviton fairies trying hard and lobbying to smuggle their fairie beliefs into public policy, science class rooms, etc...

Isn't that because everyone knows ( atheist and non-atheist ) knows they do Not exist.

No. It's because graviton fairy believers aren't having any sociological impact in secular societies.

So, why do atheists try to convince or fight over something they 'know' is Not real _______

1. Because theists have a habbit of demonizing and dehumanizing atheists
2. Because of the social stigma involved
3. because of the many theist lobbyists working hard to smuggle their bibles into class rooms and to manipulate / influence public policies.
4. ....

In short: because of the very real, direct impact these bronze aged beliefs have on the secular society that we atheists live in.

Believe me, if followers of pink graviton fairies were lobbying hard to get physics in science class replaced with their religious scripture, I'ld be very much up in their face as well.

Do people have faith in the orderliness of the universe ______
The universe with its perceived order, which was brought forth from chaos, in the absence of a Higher Power would revert back in the absence of a Creator. Intelligence is required, and the lack of such intelligence is ___________

Your religious beliefs are just that: your religious beliefs.
They have no bearing on reality until you can demonstrate it to be the case.
But you can't, so they don't.

 

[ManSinha]

1. Because theists have a habbit of demonizing and dehumanizing atheists

Perhaps some but certainly not all

3. because of the many theist lobbyists working hard to smuggle their bibles into class rooms and to manipulate / influence public policies.

May be I am mistaken but I thought $$ was one part of it - the more believers / followers - the more $$ and means to influence

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

May be I am mistaken but I thought $$ was one part of it - the more believers / followers - the more $$ and means to influence

Is that supposed to be a defense?

I note that you didn't actually have anything with substance to say.

 

[ManSinha]

Is that supposed to be a defense?

It is most certainly not a defense - but often the real reason is hidden behind a facade and in as much as RF is a discussion board I was merely exploring that aspect - is there a facade and if so - what is driving it.

I note that you didn't actually have anything with substance to say.

Well - not being as learned as the other erudite members of this board - some times I do come up with pearls and other times - mere musings that are decried as being equivalent to nothing - if that is your opinion then so be it

Now if you are concerned that I am wasting server space - by all means let me know

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

It is most certainly not a defense - but often the real reason is hidden behind a facade and in as much as RF is a discussion board I was merely exploring that aspect - is there a facade and if so - what is driving it.

My point wasn't about money.
My point was about people who, in a secular society, work hard to get their religious beliefs translated into public policies. It's unconstitutional and illegal.

I'll gladly stand up for people's right to believe whatever nonsense they want to.
At the same time, I'll fiercely oppose ANY attempt by theists to have their religious nonsense translated into public policy or have it invade science class rooms.

You can have your religious toys. But you'll play with them at home and not shove them down my throat.

Well - not being as learned as the other erudite members of this board - some times I do come up with pearls and other times - mere musings that are decried as being equivalent to nothing - if that is your opinion then so be it

Now if you are concerned that I am wasting server space - by all means let me know

I'm just saying. You questioned why I complain about theists and not about fairy believers.
I gave you my answer: fairy believers aren't actively trying to get their nonsense legislated and/or try to shove their believes down my throat while theists do, that's why.

Maybe you have no response and simply acknowledge my point. That's fine off course. I just felt you were attempting to dodge the point / change the topic with that "money" comment.

 

[ManSinha]

My point wasn't about money.
My point was about people who, in a secular society, work hard to get their religious beliefs translated into public policies. It's unconstitutional and illegal.

I have long maintained that the push to "ban abortion" or the ones to teach Creationism are insidious moves by a group of religious minded individuals to expand the sphere of their influence using religion as basis - so I am agreeing with your viewpoint

And oddly enough - reflecting back on my posts over the past couple of days - I said this in post 47 of "Is Religion Useful" thread

I'll gladly stand up for people's right to believe whatever nonsense they want to.
At the same time, I'll fiercely oppose ANY attempt by theists to have their religious nonsense translated into public policy or have it invade science class rooms.

There is a group of us (Orthodox Sikh People) who hold the view that part of the reason the 10th Master created the distinct identity of the Sikhs was exactly that - you have to choose in your heart and mind to be that way - it cannot be forced at gun / sword / money point.......

He was following in the steps of his father - the 9th Master - who stood up for the rights of a people from a different set of beliefs to follow their own - so in a sense; going by what you mentioned - we would seem to be in good company

But that is another discussion for another day