Was Jesus an Historical Person?

[Jonathan Hoffman]

This website explores in depth the historicity of Jesus and his apostles.

*Link Deleted*

At this point in time, I certainly don't believe a miracle working Jesus ever existed, but I do think the story or the legend of Jesus may have been inspired by a real person who lived during that time. . . perhaps Judas the Galilean or one of his sons, James or Simon.

What do you think?

 

[Quagmire]

This website explores in depth the historicity of Jesus and his apostles.

No, actually, it doesn't. It's actually a pretty superficial and dishonest mis-representation of the scholasticism involved.

It's basically just a mess of opinions based on a bunch of erroneous assumptions.

This:

: Scholars have known all this for more than 200 years but priestcraft is a highly profitable business and finances an industry of deceit to keep the show on the road.

Shows pretty clearly that the authors either grossly mis-informed or intends to mis-inform.

 

[Jonathan Hoffman]

Thanks for your opinion.

 

[Quagmire]

Thanks for your opinion.

In the same way that "the sky is blue" is my opinion. :yes:

 

[Jonathan Hoffman]

Well perhaps you would offer your opinion on the other content of my opening post:

At this point in time, I certainly don't believe a miracle working Jesus ever existed, but I do think the story or the legend of Jesus may have been inspired by a real person who lived during that time. . . perhaps Judas the Galilean or one of his sons, James or Simon.

 

[Quagmire]

perhaps you would offer your opinion on the other content of my opening post:

Start here:

did jesus exist?

Josephus and Jesus
fallingblood

Did the village of Nazareth exist in the first century? (

fallingblood

Historical evidence for Christ tomarnold

Jesus was Mithra Re-Hashed? lamplighter

Alleged historical evidence for Jesus Iasion

The Jesus Myth fallingblood

Josephus on Jesus Jayhawker Soule

Jesus Christ VS Julius Caesar herushura

The historical Jesus issue is not settled. Agnostic75

Non-Christians From Jesus Era Confirmed His Earthly Existence (Alter2Ego

Did Jesus exist? (

123 ... Last Page) Youtellme

The quest for the historic Jesus (

123 ... Last Page)
arcanum

No Evidence for 1st Century Nazareth (

123 ... Last Page) godnotgod

To The Jesus Myth Theorist (

123 ... Last Page) CynthiaCypher

Is there historical evidence of Jesus' life and death? (

12)
Godwilling

 

[Jonathan Hoffman]

You have posted lots of interesting links. May I post a few of my own? Or will this be a one-sided dialogue?

 

[Quagmire]

You have posted lots of interesting links. May I post a few of my own? Or will this be a one-sided dialogue?

All of these are links to threads already extant on this site. Feel free to do likewise.

If you want to post links from outside sources I'd suggest you read the rules first.

 

[sojourner]

There is a lot of conversation in the scholastic community as to the real nature of Jesus. We know that there is "the historic Jesus" and "the mythic Jesus." The consensus among reputable scholars is that Jesus did, in fact exist. The mythic content is up for debate, ranging from "most of the miracles and the resurrection may have happened," to, "None of the miracles or the resurrection happened."

I side firmly with the consensus that Jesus was an historical person.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

.. I do think the story or the legend of Jesus may have been inspired by a real person who lived during that time. . . perhaps Judas the Galilean or one of his sons, James or Simon.

What do you think?

I think the idea demonstrates considerable ignorance. What renders the proposition that

"Jesus may have been inspired by a real person who lived during that time. . . perhaps Judas the Galilean or one of his sons, James or Simon"​

at all compelling?

 

[Jonathan Hoffman]

There is a lot of conversation in the scholastic community as to the real nature of Jesus. We know that there is "the historic Jesus" and "the mythic Jesus." The consensus among reputable scholars is that Jesus did, in fact exist. The mythic content is up for debate, ranging from "most of the miracles and the resurrection may have happened," to, "None of the miracles or the resurrection happened."

I side firmly with the consensus that Jesus was an historical person.

I am also more of an 'historicist' than a 'mythicist'. I disagree with Earl Doherty, though I respect his scholarship. But if Jesus really existed, I don't think there is any historical verification of him as a miracle worker. I think that story is an embellishment of a more mundane Jesus.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I disagree with Earl Doherty, though I respect his scholarship.

What did he add to Wells?

 

[sojourner]

I am also more of an 'historicist' than a 'mythicist'. I disagree with Earl Doherty, though I respect his scholarship. But if Jesus really existed, I don't think there is any historical verification of him as a miracle worker. I think that story is an embellishment of a more mundane Jesus.

I don't think I'm usually that firmly in the historicist camp. While there may be no verifiable proof that Jesus didn't do miracles, that's not unusual for the time and place. some offering of miracles may be a reason why Jesus became so popular.

 

[outhouse]

I am also more of an 'historicist' than a 'mythicist'. I disagree with Earl Doherty, though I respect his scholarship. But if Jesus really existed, I don't think there is any historical verification of him as a miracle worker. I think that story is an embellishment of a more mundane Jesus.

Earl is a pretty good guy, and strong in Greek Language.

But he doesnt really have a scholarship.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

While there may be no verifiable proof that Jesus didn't do miracles, that's not unusual for the time and place.

Or, for that matter, any time or place.

 

[outhouse]

I don't think I'm usually that firmly in the historicist camp. While there may be no verifiable proof that Jesus didn't do miracles, that's not unusual for the time and place. some offering of miracles may be a reason why Jesus became so popular.

Since the gospels in general only deal with his last week of life and death.

I believe it was the whole passover event that martyred him, that generated his popularity, and details were then filled in later based on oral tradition.

What I find fascinating, is that Paul tok his message throughout the empire, but by his own writings, we know the message was circulated before he even got to some of these places. He was responsible for pulling these different groups in houses and trying to teach them his version and correct what he thought were mistakes.

I see some people trying to say Paul was responsible for spreading the message, but its obvious the message was already out. And a man marytred at passover and the people leaving with this knowledge of him, explains this, and is what generated his popularity and was responsible for the message rapidly reaching the far corners of the empire.

I see Paul going into these cities claiming to be a apostle teaching his version to those who already knew, despite his differences with the Jewish version of the movement failing and crushed when he was placed on a cross.

 

[Jonathan Hoffman]

I don't think I'm usually that firmly in the historicist camp. While there may be no verifiable proof that Jesus didn't do miracles, that's not unusual for the time and place. some offering of miracles may be a reason why Jesus became so popular.

Well, the burden of proof is always to prove that something happened and not the reverse.
Anyway. . .
But wasn't there an account in the gospels of hundreds or thousands of resurrected saints shuffling around the holy land afer Jesus' resurrection? Wouldn't historians of the day notice and record that?

 

[Jonathan Hoffman]

Earl is a pretty good guy, and strong in Greek Language.

But he doesnt really have a scholarship.

Yes, technically he is an amateur, though even contrarian scholars often view him as a peer, even Richard Carrier.

 

[Jonathan Hoffman]

Originally Posted by sojourner
While there may be no verifiable proof that Jesus didn't do miracles.

My goodness, there is also no verifiable proof that I do not do miracles every morning before I brush my teeth, or any other time of the day!

 

[outhouse]

Yes, technically he is an amateur, though even contrarian scholars often view him as a peer, even Richard Carrier.

Carrier understands his work in Greek Language, but not as a peer. I know and argue with Earl and give him praise when due, but it isnt due all that often.

Richard shines a light on most mythicist, but you will notice he often follows a middle of the road view not taking a real stance.

He has proposed that he wil take a side and give his explanation that will tick off all the other mythers because it discounts all of their current views. So dont think he is too much hand in hand so to speak with others. Richard is in his own boat.