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Was Jesus executed on a cross or stake?
- Thread starter oldbadger
- Start date
The very word "crucifixion" means to be fixed (-fixion) to a cross (cruci-) in Latin. Stakes were sometimes used, though this was only one of many ways in which one could be crucified.
Nails were either driven into the base of the wrist, where you can find a bundle of nerves, or driven into the hands. If driven into the hands, then the wrists would be tied to the cross so the victim would stay up there. The feet were also nailed to the cross. People were crucified in any number of specific ways; there could be a ledge upon which one's feet rested, there could be a small little "seat" that would support part of the person's weight, the shape of the Cross would vary (Compare St. Andrew's Cross and the traditional Cross of Christ, for example), as well as the orientation (St. Peter was crucified upside-down, for instance.)
Nails were either driven into the base of the wrist, where you can find a bundle of nerves, or driven into the hands. If driven into the hands, then the wrists would be tied to the cross so the victim would stay up there. The feet were also nailed to the cross. People were crucified in any number of specific ways; there could be a ledge upon which one's feet rested, there could be a small little "seat" that would support part of the person's weight, the shape of the Cross would vary (Compare St. Andrew's Cross and the traditional Cross of Christ, for example), as well as the orientation (St. Peter was crucified upside-down, for instance.)
Skwim
Veteran Member
English Standard Version
Acts 5:30
The God of our fathers raised Jesus, whom you killed by hanging him on a tree.
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
Would this be a tree trunk...... thus making it a large stake? Or was it a tree pruned back for such a purpose as crucifixion?
Thanks for this...........
Skwim
Veteran Member
Here's one interpertation.
Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
Xulon in Acts 5:30 can be a tree, but also stands for wood or timber.
When were crucified, they were usually on a tree with kind of cross-bar, which I believe was made out of wood. So it was cross shaped. But there were many different ways they crucified people.
But it doesn't really matter how He died, but that He died.
But it doesn't really matter how He died, but that He died.
Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
Here's one interpertation.
That is interesting because when I read it I thought about the stories of Pagan Gods hung upon trees. And their images hung upon trees.
fallingblood
Agnostic Theist
The earliest depictions we have of Jesus being crucified are on a cross in the shape of a t. If I recall correctly, the early church fathers also made it clear that it was in the shape of a t.
Looking at Roman crucifixion at the time, it was done with a vertical or beam that was usually fixed in a single place outside of town and a cross beam. It made it easy to crucify individuals and would prolong the agony.
The mention of Jesus being hung from a tree or crucified on a tree are used in order to connect it to the Old Testament. It's an illusion to Hebrew scripture.
Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
My question is why would they pierce his side at this point?
crucifixion ...
cataway
Well-Known Member
I'd say there are things that are not told .some things even an eye wittiness would not know.
we do know the romans did have different ways of killing and it was not the romans that wanted Jesus dead .the Jews wanted him dead and could not be more happy to make a public example of him .
its true the romans did some times use cross's.. they also used a pole stuck into the ground . the pole or post method tended to kill faster because of the pressures or stress's that are placed on the body.
to put even more stress on the body of the victim. they were also beaten before being hung-up then after being hung-up the legs were broken which put even more stress on the upper body causing a suffocation . because it would be so hard to breathe.
the Jew's wanted him dead and he had to be dead with in a certain time span. so it would not surprise me a bit that there was some sort of consorting with the romans as to how the Jews wanted the three of then killed.
we do know the romans did have different ways of killing and it was not the romans that wanted Jesus dead .the Jews wanted him dead and could not be more happy to make a public example of him .
its true the romans did some times use cross's.. they also used a pole stuck into the ground . the pole or post method tended to kill faster because of the pressures or stress's that are placed on the body.
to put even more stress on the body of the victim. they were also beaten before being hung-up then after being hung-up the legs were broken which put even more stress on the upper body causing a suffocation . because it would be so hard to breathe.
the Jew's wanted him dead and he had to be dead with in a certain time span. so it would not surprise me a bit that there was some sort of consorting with the romans as to how the Jews wanted the three of then killed.
To make sure He's dead.
fallingblood
Agnostic Theist
That is partially right. There were mythological ideas attached to Jesus, and some stories that were simply exaggerated. However, the crucifixion is one of the few aspects of the life of Jesus that scholars do agree on. The reason being that there is no reason to create such a story and really, it is embarrassing as the Messiah wasn't suppose to die.
There are certain aspects of the crucifixion that may not be completely accurate, such as the spear being shoved in the side of Jesus, and the idea that a solider ended up revering Jesus simply is very unlikely. But the basic idea, that he was crucified on a cross, along with other criminals, is something that can be confirmed with quite a bit of accuracy.
fallingblood
Agnostic Theist
We don't have any eyewitness reports here though. Even the Gospels state that the disciples ran off and thus they wouldn't be able to recount the story.
The Romans did want him dead though. They killed him after all. If the Jews had wanted him dead, they simply would have stoned him to death, as according to their law. As Acts states, they did end up stoning Stephen, so there is no reason, if they wanted Jesus did, they wouldn't have done the same thing.
The Romans would not have cared about any certain time span. They weren't Jews, they were most likely ticked off at the time (as it was a stressful time period), and there is really no reason why they wouldn't have. The Romans were not always respectful of Jewish ideology, and Pilate definitely wasn't. He was ruthless and had no problem putting a rabble-rouser to death.
The Jews, in general, had nothing to do with the crucifixion. Jesus himself, as well as all of disciples and followers were Jews after all. It is possible that some certain individuals, who happened to be Jewish, wanted him dead. And really, it was logical. Jesus went into the Temple, and symbolically destroyed it. His actions were enough to cause a riot. If the High Priest didn't do something to stop such, then the entire city of Jerusalem could face annihilation. He was stuck in between a rock and a hard place.
But ultimately, the Romans didn't need anyone to tell them to kill Jesus. He caused a scene in the Temple, and was preaching a message of a new Kingdom replacing the Kingdom of Rome. That was threatening. And that Jesus was being called King of the Jews, only added to the potential threat. That was all the Romans needed.
As for the method of crucifixion, the Romans may have had different methods, but in the context in which we are talking about, the method was of a vertical beam, which was permanently fixed outside of the city. The criminal was forced to carry the cross beam through town, and to the place of execution. They were fixed to that cross beam and then hoisted up onto the vertical beam.
The earliest authors who dealt with the shape of the cross specifically also state that it was in the shape of a t, and that is what our earliest depictions also show. There really is no reason to assume that it was in any other form.
cataway
Well-Known Member
31 Hence Pilate said to them: Take him yourselves and judge him according to YOUR law. The Jews said to him: It is not lawful for us to kill anyone.
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
Yes....... and the Romans would not have cared whether he took days to die. They saw to it that Jesus was killed before the Sabbath. And Jewish law would required the body to be brought down that same night, not to soil the ground?
For various reasons Pilate gave the choice of Jesus or Barrabas to the Jews, and gave them some 'say' in how the execution proceeded/ended, it would seem?