• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Was Joseph the Father of Jesus? Prophecy implies this. Why does Christianity say no?

crazyrussian

No stranger to this topic
Most of current Christianity claims Joseph to be a step father to Jesus and not the biological Father of Jesus; Despite the Geneology found in the bible from Adam to Jesus with Joseph being claimed to be the Father.

Christians base this Step father status solely on Matthew in concert with a mistranslation of ISIAH 7 prophecy. If only Christians knew where the testimony concerning the Immaculate conception found in Matthew and Luke originated from and what the Roman church did to manipulate the testimony to be in accordence with Hellenistic theology. Do you think they would sing a different tune?

The portion of ancient text below is from the G-12 Text and it is in accordence with over 9 Prophecies and the greater majority of bible testimony concerning Jesus. Is this the truth of how Jesus came to be?

according-to-the-flesh.png
 
Last edited by a moderator:

outhouse

Atheistically
Is this the truth of how Jesus came to be?

Fact is we dont know who his real father is. jesus historicity is still in question by a vast minority group who are easily dismissed. I believe there was a historical jesus,my point is just that there isnt that much historicity for his adult life, let alone a accurate one for his childhood.


we have two biblical accounts of his birth and they both contradict each other

and most every credible historian finds them suspicious to begin with.
 

rusra02

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Fact is we dont know who his real father is. jesus historicity is still in question by a vast minority group who are easily dismissed. I believe there was a historical jesus,my point is just that there isnt that much historicity for his adult life, let alone a accurate one for his childhood.


we have two biblical accounts of his birth and they both contradict each other

and most every credible historian finds them suspicious to begin with.

There you go again, with your "credible historians" that seems to know all. Neither do the Bible accounts contradict each other.
If Joseph were Jesus' natural father, he would not have contemplated divorcing Mary. At angelic direction, Joseph married Mary but had no intercourse with her until her first child was born. (Matthew 1:25)
I believe the four gospel accounts are credible testimony to Jesus life and ministry, and form the primary historical record of the life of Jesus Christ.
As to who Jesus Father is, the Bible record is clear: In response to Mary's question as to how she could become pregnant without having intercourse, the angel said to her: "Holy spirit will come upon you, and power of the Most High will overshadow you. For the reason also what is born will be called holy, God's Son." (Luke 1:34,35)
Jehovah transferred the life force of his Son to be born as a human baby, a baby Joseph raised as his own.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
There you go again, with your "credible historians"


ther you go again with a lack of education on the subject after refusing knowledge, and only providing faith as a tool in a debate
 

1137

Here until I storm off again
Premium Member
In John 6:38, Jesus said, "I came down from heaven". Believe it or not.

You realize that Jesus not having blood from King David's bloodline through a father invalidates him being the messiah, right? Someone, somewhere, is lying.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

horizon_mj1

Well-Known Member
Quit simply, no. There have been accounts (very few and extremely hard to prove) or a-sexual procreation occurring in the mammalian kingdom, humans included. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asexual_reproduction en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parthenogenesis
 

johnhanks

Well-Known Member
Neither do the Bible accounts contradict each other.
So was Jesus born "in the days of Herod the king" (Matthew) or "when Quirinius was governor of Syria" (Luke)? Herod had been dead at least nine years before Quirinius's appointment.

This will not be news to you, I realise; I just want to see if you try to blather away the contradiction with the usual desperate speculations.
 

Falvlun

Earthbending Lemur
Premium Member
You realize that Jesus not having blood from King David's bloodline through a father invalidates him being the messiah, right? Someone, somewhere, is lying.
I've heard it claimed that Mary is descended from King David as well, to get around that. Though it does perplex me that Christians still use Joseph's ancestry as proof of prophecy full-fillment, when their beliefs also dictate that Jesus didn't have a drop of Joseph's blood.
 

Vultar

Active Member
You realize that Jesus not having blood from King David's bloodline through a father invalidates him being the messiah, right? Someone, somewhere, is lying.

It you really want to get technical...
Everyone would be in the bloodline of Adam and therefore David...
(well at least if you believe the whole story...)
 

1137

Here until I storm off again
Premium Member
I've heard it claimed that Mary is descended from King David as well, to get around that. Though it does perplex me that Christians still use Joseph's ancestry as proof of prophecy full-fillment, when their beliefs also dictate that Jesus didn't have a drop of Joseph's blood.

Irrelevant. Tribe is passed paternally
 

johnhanks

Well-Known Member
It you really want to get technical...
Everyone would be in the bloodline of Adam and therefore David...
(well at least if you believe the whole story...)
If you believe the story and want to get even more technical - it's possible to trace your descent from Adam through a line that by-passes David.
 
Last edited:

rusra02

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
So was Jesus born "in the days of Herod the king" (Matthew) or "when Quirinius was governor of Syria" (Luke)? Herod had been dead at least nine years before Quirinius's appointment.

This will not be news to you, I realise; I just want to see if you try to blather away the contradiction with the usual desperate speculations.

It is you that is speculating. Both Matthew and Luke's accounts are correct. The gospels were written just decades after the events occurred by careful historians. Luke 2:1,2 records: "Now in those days a decree went forth from Caesar Au·gus′tus for all the inhabited earth to be registered; (this first registration took place when Qui·rin′i·us was governor of Syria." You are basing your claim that Herod's death preceded Quirinius appointment on unproven speculation.
According to the Bible Encyclopaedia Insight on the Scriptures,Vol 2, p.722:
"For a long time this was the only governorship of Syria by Quirinius for which secular history supplied confirmation. However, in the year 1764 an inscription known as the Lapis Tiburtinus was found in Rome, which, though not giving the name, contains information that most scholars acknowledge could apply only to Quirinius. (Corpus Inscriptionum Latinarum, edited by H. Dessau, Berlin, 1887, Vol. 14, p. 397, No. 3613) It contains the statement that on going to Syria he became governor (or, legate) for ‘the second time.’ On the basis of inscriptions found in Antioch containing Quirinius’ name, many historians acknowledge that Quirinius was also governor of Syria in the B.C.E. period.

There is uncertainty on their part, however, as to where Quirinius fits among the secularly recorded governors of Syria. Josephus lists Quintilius Varus as governor of Syria at the time of, and subsequent to, the death of Herod the Great. (Jewish Antiquities, XVII, 89 [v, 2]; XVII, 221 [ix, 3]) Tacitus also refers to Varus as being governor at the time of Herod’s death. (The Histories, V, IX) Josephus states that Varus’ predecessor was Saturninus (C. Sentius Saturninus).

Many scholars, in view of the evidence of an earlier governorship by Quirinius, suggest the years 3-2 B.C.E. for his governorship. While these dates would harmonize satisfactorily with the Biblical record, the basis on which these scholars select them is in error. That is, they list Quirinius as governor during those years because they place his rule after that of Varus and hence after the death of Herod the Great, for which they use the popular but erroneous date of 4 B.C.E. (See CHRONOLOGY; HEROD No. 1 [Date of His Death].) (For the same reason, that is, their use of the unproved date 4 B.C.E. for Herod’s death, they give Varus’ governorship as from 6 to 4 B.C.E.; the length of his rule, however, is conjectural, for Josephus does not specify the date of its beginning or of its end.) The best evidence points to 2 B.C.E. for the birth of Jesus. Hence Quirinius’ governorship must have included this year or part thereof.

Luke’s proved accuracy in historical matters gives sound reason for accepting as factual his reference to Quirinius as governor of Syria around the time of Jesus’ birth. It may be remembered that Josephus, virtually the only other source of information, was not born until 37 C.E., hence nearly four decades after Jesus’ birth. Luke, on the other hand, was already a physician traveling with the apostle Paul by about 49 C.E. when Josephus was but a boy of 12. Of the two, Luke, even on ordinary grounds, is the more likely source for reliable information on the matter of the Syrian governorship just prior to Jesus’ birth. Justin Martyr, a Palestinian of the second century C.E., cited the Roman records as proof of Luke’s accuracy as regards Quirinius’ governorship at the time of Jesus’ birth. (A Catholic Commentary on Holy Scripture, edited by B. Orchard, 1953, p. 943) There is no evidence that Luke’s account was ever challenged by early historians, even by early critics such as Celsus."
 

rusra02

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Just shows what a poor tool the Bible is as a record of history.

Not surprising, when it was not intended as one.

To the contrary, the Bible is a very reliable source of historical information, as time and again confirmed by new archeological discoveries, and internal evidence.
Professor E. M Blaiklock of Auckland University stated: "I claim to be an historian. My approach to the Classics is historical. And I tell you that the evidence for the life, the death, and the resurrection of Christ is better authenticated than most of the facts of ancient history." (quote from W2000 5/15)

 

no-body

Well-Known Member
To the contrary, the Bible is a very reliable source of historical information, as time and again confirmed by new archeological discoveries, and internal evidence.

Sure it is :rolleyes: care to list some secular sources from this decade to back this up?

Professor E. M Blaiklock of Auckland University stated: "I claim to be an historian. My approach to the Classics is historical. And I tell you that the evidence for the life, the death, and the resurrection of Christ is better authenticated than most of the facts of ancient history." (quote from W2000 5/15)


You mean the Christian apologist that died in the 80's and has no background in history or archaeology whatsoever?

But I'm sure someone that is studying solely the bible and is a Christian can be trusted to give us unbiased info.
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
Most of current Christianity claims Joseph to be a step father to Jesus and not the biological Father of Jesus; Despite the Geneology found in the bible from Adam to Jesus with Joseph being claimed to be the Father.

Christians base this Step father status solely on Matthew in concert with a mistranslation of ISIAH 7 prophecy. If only Christians knew where the testimony concerning the Immaculate conception found in Matthew and Luke originated from and what the Roman church did to manipulate the testimony to be in accordence with Hellenistic theology. Do you think they would sing a different tune?

The portion of ancient text below is from the G-12 Text and it is in accordence with over 9 Prophecies and the greater majority of bible testimony concerning Jesus. Is this the truth of how Jesus came to be?


according-to-the-flesh.png

even the account says that Joseph was going to secretly divorce mary because he thought she had committed adultery while engaged to him. Why would he do that if he thought he was the father of the child? He wouldnt divorce his fiance because she was pregnant if he knew he was the father. The fact is that he knew he wasnt the father and therefore was going to divorce her.

And Mary's family were also related by blood to the house of king David....so Jesus is heir to the throne through his mothers blood.
 
Top