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Was the fall of Satan part of God's plan?
- Thread starter Spiderman
- Start date
Another question is, at what time did Satan become the bad guy? In the book of Job he was one of the sons of God that came before the throne. And his persecution of Job was by approval of God. When did the transition between tester of man in Job to enemy of God in the NT take place?
djhwoodwerks
Well-Known Member
Job doesn't say satan was a son of God! It says,
Job 1:6 (ESV Strong's) 6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them.
It says the day when the sons of God came to present themselves, "satan ALSO came among them". Satan isn't considered a son of God.
Yohanan ben Yaaqov
Member
There is no “Satan,” there is no “devil” this is all chr-stian pagan mythology. There is no fall of anyone or anything. Please quit abusing our Sacred Texts to rationalize your need for psych meds
Ok ,so your saying that Satan was not included among them as one of the "sons of God" ? I was under the impression that he was one of them and was singled out for the job of testing Job.
Is the book of Job not included in your sacred texts?
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Then who's Lucifer? That's always been synonymous with the angels. When I was a Christian, Satan was considered as a Fallen Angel.
Yohanan ben Yaaqov
Member
The book of Iyyov is a fable, you know a fictional story with a moral lesson?
I understand that it is a fictional story with a moral lesson (IYYOV is the same as Job?). But the character of Satan is mentioned. Is that fiction as well?
Yohanan ben Yaaqov
Member
The Hebrew word - שָׂטָן - satan means adversary, opponent or accuser. It is not a name or a proper noun, it is simply a descriptive term. Apparently no one reads my posts, because I've explained this before.
Yohanan ben Yaaqov
Member
There is no “lucifer.” That was the Roman name for the planet Venus at the time. The Hebrew clause – הֵילֵל בֶּנ־שָׁחַר – héylél ben shaḥar means Venus the morning star.
Yohanan ben Yaaqov
Member
ATTENTION ALL CHR_STIANS!!! There has never been nor will there ever be anything similar to your pagan devil in Judaism.
djhwoodwerks
Well-Known Member
IMO, if satan was considered one of the sons of God, the story would have went something like this,
'Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and the Lord said to Satan,'
It doesn't say that, satan is kept separate from the sons,
Job 1:6-7 (ESV Strong's) 6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them. 7 The Lord said to Satan,
I don't see the story of Job as, "testing Job", but rather proving to satan that Job was righteous and couldn't be shaken.
Job 1:7 (ESV Strong's) 7 The Lord said to Satan, “From where have you come?” Satan answered the Lord and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking up and down on it.”
God asked satan where he was coming from, satan said from walking around the earth, and it says at 1Peter 5:8'
1 Peter 5:8 (ESV Strong's) 8 Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.
So satan was looking for someone to devour, and God said, "have you considered my servant Job".
And another factor might have come into play also, it says,
Job 1:5 (ESV Strong's) And when the days of the feast had run their course, Job would send and consecrate them, and he would rise early in the morning and offer burnt offerings according to the number of them all. For Job said, “It may be that my children have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts.” Thus Job did continually.
Job offered burnt offerings "continually", which could mean that he wasn't doing it in faith. And God told satan,
Job 1:12 (ESV Strong's) And the Lord said to Satan, “Behold, all that he has is in your hand.
I'm leaning toward Job not acting in faith, which put him outside the protection of God. Any thoughts?
Thank you for being so kind in explaining this. I just hate it when people are arrogant and rude in answering honest questions.
djhwoodwerks
Well-Known Member
That's good for Judaism, I guess.
Yohanan ben Yaaqov
Member
Just to quickly answer this before Shabbat/ Yom Kippur, Iyyov was a story Mosheh told to our ancestors to get them to quit pissing and moaning about the hard times they were having. Have you ever heard of Aesop? Same idea.
Yohanan ben Yaaqov
Member
One more thing before I have to sign off for the next two days. I don't hate chr-stians, in fact some of my best friends are chr-stians. I just hate the fact that chr-stians can't open their eyes and realize that their whole fairy tale is nothing but a farce.
Yohanan ben Yaaqov
Member
Explain to me how I was rude? It is a God given command to hate all foreign religion with the greatest form of loathing.
Well, that seems to be *exactly* what God is saying in Job 40.
Wasn't required. Explaining why the rules are the way they are and encouraging questions works much better in the long run. Now, my daughter is doing quite well in college, thank you.