Was the fall of Satan part of God's plan?

[Mohsen]

You have to understand how free will works within God's will to understand why.

I had a wall of text to explain it, but its just too advanced for someone who is not a believer to begin with. Devout christians and biblical scholars have a hard time digesting it even.

Ah, I can simplify that:

Johnathan goes to a takeaway, he sees three options:

1) burger meal
2) steak meal
3) chicken salad meal

the choice is his, because God gave him free will. What he must do is make the best choice for himself.

God has the over-riding will which will determine the fate of johnathans choice.

if Johnathan chooses:

1) burger meal - he will end up with a sore belly but be fine the next day
2) steak meal - he will end up with food poisoning and have to take a day off work the next day
3) the chicken salad meal - he will be fine.

Johnathan has no way of knowing the result of his choice! He just wants to eat!

It is God who decides the result of such choices, it is we who choose! Free will, is basically, a game of "Multiple Choice" - so choose wisely!

God blessed us Muslims to understand these things, things which devout Christians and biblical scholars have no clue how to understand.

God bless

 

[DavidFirth]

Wasn't required. Explaining why the rules are the way they are and encouraging questions works much better in the long run. Now, my daughter is doing quite well in college, thank you.

Congratulations.

 

[Mohsen]

PopeADope,

I would like to recommend to you, a book: Stories of the Prophets, by Ibn Kathir. It's an exegetical take on the stories found in the Qur'an - with comparative analysis from the OT and other traditions, which have been contrasted to those within the Muslim holy book, the Qur'an:

https://www.kalamullah.com/Books/Stories Of The Prophets By Ibn Kathir.pdf

Read the first chapter - the Chapter of Adam (pbuh), in this, are the answers to your questions!

God bless,

 

[DavidFirth]

Ah, I can simplify that:

Johnathan goes to a takeaway, he sees three options:

1) burger meal
2) steak meal
3) chicken salad meal

the choice is his, because God gave him free will. What he must do is make the best choice for himself.

God has the over-riding will which will determine the fate of johnathans choice.

if Johnathan chooses:

1) burger meal - he will end up with a sore belly but be fine the next day
2) steak meal - he will end up with food poisoning and have to take a day off work the next day
3) the chicken salad meal - he will be fine.

Johnathan has no way of knowing the result of his choice! He just wants to eat!

It is God who decides the result of such choices, it is we who choose! Free will, is basically, a game of "Multiple Choice" - so choose wisely!

God blessed us Muslims to understand these things, things which devout Christians and biblical scholars have no clue how to understand.

God bless

That's quite an assumption you're making there, fella. Paul well understood it and explained it as have many other Christians. For you to assume all Muslims understand predestination better than all Christians is a ludicrous claim.

 

[Mohsen]

That's quite an assumption you're making there, fella. Paul well understood it and explained it as have many other Christians. For you to assume all Muslims understand predestination better than all Christians is a ludicrous claim.

Your opinion is noted, and shown to be weak considering no one else has explained it in this thread - only I have.

The rest, just bailed

Peace

edit: i'm gonna go cook me some noodles, but please - do feel free to reference Paul, and the Clergymen of Christianity in their feeble attempts to explain free will & predestination

 

[DavidFirth]

Your opinion is noted, and shown to be weak considering no one else has explained it in this thread - only I have.

The rest, just bailed

Peace

Well, if they would bother to read Ephesians and the rest of Paul's letters they would have been led to the truth by the great Apostle. What you have said isn't Bible based and isnt worth reading, frankly.

 

[Mohsen]

Well, if they would bother to read Ephesians and the rest of Paul's letters they would have been led to the truth by the great Apostle. What you have said isn't Bible based and isnt worth reading, frankly.

I wouldn't make such a big deal out of Pauls letters if I were you, one of the reasons Bart Ehrman lost his faith is due to the so called letters of Paul. Guess what? Paul wasn't the author of those letters. Please tell me you knew this?

peace

 

[DavidFirth]

I wouldn't make such a big deal out of Pauls letters if I were you, one of the reasons Bart Ehrman lost his faith is due to the so called letters of Paul. Guess what? Paul wasn't the author of those letters. Please tell me you knew this?

peace

You can in no way prove that statement. Who told you such a lie?

 

[Mohsen]

You can in no way prove that statement. Who told you such a lie?

Are you certain I cannot?

Because I can!!

Infact, here is a teaser:

You may not be privy to this, but several letters bearing Paul's name are disputed among scholars, namely Ephesians, Colossians, 2 Thessalonians, 1 and 2 Timothy, and Titus. Scholarly opinion is sharply divided on whether or not Colossians and 2 Thessalonians are genuine letters of Paul. The remaining four contested epistles – Ephesians, as well as the three known as the Pastoral Epistles (1 and 2 Timothy, and Titus) – have been labeled pseudopigraphical works by most critical scholars. Some scholars have proposed that Paul may have used an amanuensis or secretary, in writing the disputed letters but this is a minority opinion, given that Paul knew how to write and it was never recorded that he had a "secretary" , he was in no position to have one!

There are two examples of pseudonymous letters written in Paul’s name apart from the New Testament epistles, theEpistles to the Laodiceans and 3 Corinthians.

The Epistles to the Hebrews is actually anonymous, but it has been traditionally attributed to Paul. The church father Origen rejected the Pauline authorship of Hebrews, asserting that, the letter itself had actually been written by someone else. Most modern scholars generally agree that Hebrews was not written by the apostle Paul. Various other possible authorships have been suggested.

Are you disagreeing with any of this? And if so, please bring me some evidence to back up your position! Because I have plenty to back up mine.

And remember, this is only a teaser!

peace

 

[Enoch07]

Ah, I can simplify that:

Johnathan goes to a takeaway, he sees three options:

1) burger meal
2) steak meal
3) chicken salad meal

the choice is his, because God gave him free will. What he must do is make the best choice for himself.

God has the over-riding will which will determine the fate of johnathans choice.

if Johnathan chooses:

1) burger meal - he will end up with a sore belly but be fine the next day
2) steak meal - he will end up with food poisoning and have to take a day off work the next day
3) the chicken salad meal - he will be fine.

Johnathan has no way of knowing the result of his choice! He just wants to eat!

It is God who decides the result of such choices, it is we who choose! Free will, is basically, a game of "Multiple Choice" - so choose wisely!

God blessed us Muslims to understand these things, things which devout Christians and biblical scholars have no clue how to understand.

God bless

Eh kinda, the free will I am thinking of has less to do with everyday life and more about the big picture. But I like the analogy anyways.

 

[Mohsen]

Eh kinda, the free will I am thinking of has less to do with everyday life and more about the big picture. But I like the analogy anyways.

the microcosm is but a scalable model for the macrocosm,

peace

 

[David1967]

I'm leaning toward Job not acting in faith, which put him outside the protection of God. Any thoughts?

I don't get that impression. The book of Job portrays him as a righteous man. I don't know why God chose to test him so. But later in the book God basically brings to his attention his inability to understand the ways of One who layed the foundations of the world. Personally, I don't believe that Job was a person but that it is a parable. Anyway, just my thoughts. Thank you for your input.

 

[David1967]

One more thing before I have to sign off for the next two days. I don't hate chr-stians, in fact some of my best friends are chr-stians. I just hate the fact that chr-stians can't open their eyes and realize that their whole fairy tale is nothing but a farce.

Kinda like the American white supremist saying that some of his best friends are black. Yeah, I get it.

 

[DavidFirth]

Are you certain I cannot?

Because I can!!

Infact, here is a teaser:

You may not be privy to this, but several letters bearing Paul's name are disputed among scholars, namely Ephesians, Colossians, 2 Thessalonians, 1 and 2 Timothy, and Titus. Scholarly opinion is sharply divided on whether or not Colossians and 2 Thessalonians are genuine letters of Paul. The remaining four contested epistles – Ephesians, as well as the three known as the Pastoral Epistles (1 and 2 Timothy, and Titus) – have been labeled pseudopigraphical works by most critical scholars. Some scholars have proposed that Paul may have used an amanuensis or secretary, in writing the disputed letters but this is a minority opinion, given that Paul knew how to write and it was never recorded that he had a "secretary" , he was in no position to have one!

There are two examples of pseudonymous letters written in Paul’s name apart from the New Testament epistles, theEpistles to the Laodiceans and 3 Corinthians.

The Epistles to the Hebrews is actually anonymous, but it has been traditionally attributed to Paul. The church father Origen rejected the Pauline authorship of Hebrews, asserting that, the letter itself had actually been written by someone else. Most modern scholars generally agree that Hebrews was not written by the apostle Paul. Various other possible authorships have been suggested.

Are you disagreeing with any of this? And if so, please bring me some evidence to back up your position! Because I have plenty to back up mine.

And remember, this is only a teaser!

peace

Now, all you need to do is get the Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Churches to agree with your "experts." If you can do that you win. If not I stop listening to your pathetic drivel.

 

[Mohsen]

Now, all you need to do is get the Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Churches to agree with your "experts." If you can do that you win. If not I stop listening to your pathetic drivel.

interesting, your ad hominems are reflective of you inability to provide proof which backs up your bias.

You have nothing, admit it. You did not realise I know my biblical history did you? I advise you to stay in your lane. And not get ahead of yourself. You've not addressed anything in my teaser post, proving Ephesians is a forgery - but hey, let it be your nepenthe, that is NOT my problem, it is, evidently, yours

God bless,

 

[DavidFirth]

interesting, your ad hominems are reflective of you inability to provide proof which backs up your bias.

You have nothing, admit it. You did not realise I know my biblical history did you? I advise you to stay in your lane. And not get ahead of yourself. You've not addressed anything in my teaser post, proving Ephesians is a forgery - but hey, let it be your nepenthe, that is NOT my problem, it is, evidently, yours

God bless,

Your knowledge does not impress me. I told you that if you can get the scholars of the largest Christian institutions in the world to agree with you then maybe I will, too. If you don't have enough to present to them, you'll never convince me or any other Spirit filled Christian. We know the truth in Christ, sir. We do not know you.

 

[Mohsen]

Your knowledge does not impress me. I told you that if you can get the scholars of the largest Christian institutions in the world to agree with you then maybe I will, too. If you don't have enough to present to them, you'll never convince me or any other Spirit filled Christian. We know the truth in Christ, sir. We do not know you.

The irony is the the scholars of Christianity IS WHERE I GET THIS INFO FROM.

Your ignorance is astounding me, somewhat.

Do you even history bro?

peace

 

[DavidFirth]

The irony is the the scholars of Christianity IS WHERE I GET THIS INFO FROM.

Your ignorance is astounding me, somewhat.

Do you even history bro?

peace

Hmm. I've seen no lit from either the RCC or the EOC regarding your accusations. Do you have any links to where so much as one Cardinal or Metropolitan agrees with you?

 

[Mohsen]

Hmm. I've seen no lit from either the RCC or the EOC regarding your accusations. Do you have any links to where so much as one Cardinal or Metropolitan agrees with you?

You may not trust my links, since I am apparently spouting drivel in your opinion. I would, however, advise you to seek out the truth on your own. You may be surprised to learn that even the RCC knows the truth of the canon. And its dirty little secrets

peace

 

[DavidFirth]

You may not trust my links, since I am apparently spouting drivel in your opinion. I would, however, advise you to seek out the truth on your own. You may be surprised to learn that even the RCC knows the truth of the canon. And its dirty little secrets
peace

You're forgetting a couple of very important things.

John 3:16
John 3:17
2 Peter 3

Obviously Peter thought Paul was genuine.

Also, Luke did, too. Read Acts.

I'm done with this foolishness. The Spirit confirms truth for the Christian. We don't need you to tell us otherwise.

I'll leave you with John 14:6 and call this conversation from my end over. You've proved nothing and cannot prove anything.