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waste of time...

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
The reason people card is because of the excise police. Here in Indiana (at least when I worked at a gas station about eight years ago) the cashier, if you are caught selling to minors, you are immediately terminated from employment, fined $500, and the company is fined an amount I can't recall. Carding people is a part of the job, and there is no "obviously over this age" unless someone is wrinkled, greyed, and has trembling hands. I carded plenty of people in the 30's, 40's, and even 50's (and then many cashiers card those 60 and older as a way to try to flatter them), and even though some people did get upset over it, better them to be mad than me losing my job as well as myself and the store fined.

Anybody else ever have a cashier insist that everybody must be carded when purchasing alcohol?
I didn't sell alcohol, but I was a cashier that took pride in the fact that I carded pretty much just about everyone. My boss also liked it because he knew he didn't have to worry about me getting hit by the excise police. It inconvenienced a few, but I was protecting my job and the interests of the store by carding nearly every last customer that bought cigarettes of me.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Fear of the law.
I suppose that's fair enough.

Nice to know the police state has it all well in hand.
 

ChristineES

Tiggerism
Premium Member
If a person is over 30, then wouldn't be safe to assume that they are over 21? I don't really understand the policy, but I wouldn't blame the clerks for it.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Fear of the law.
I suppose that's fair enough.

Nice to know the police state has it all well in hand.
I would exactly call it the "police state." The alcohol age restrictions we have need to be lowered, but if they really cared about protecting impressionable kids and teens from tobacco they would just make that illegal. But there is too much money to be made from it for that to ever happen (at least anytime soon) I would think.

If a person is over 30, then wouldn't be safe to assume that they are over 21? I don't really understand the policy, but I wouldn't blame the clerks for it.
It's because when you add in tattoos, facial hair, piercings, make-up, and other things it can be hard to tell. And then there is individual aging, in which once I thought a 12 or 13 year old girl was asking for cigarettes. Turned out she'd been old enough to buy alcohol for awhile.
 

4consideration

*
Premium Member
I've given it some thought and I think this is one of those situations that I would make an inquiry with the store as to what their actual policy is (for future reference,) and also let them know the impression the experience left on me, as a customer. I would wait until the issue no longer had an emotional charge, so it could be discussed calmly.

As I understand it, were your family not with you, there would have been no problem, since you had proper ID. It was only your wife that did not. (I missed that you specified all adults in the post I quoted previously.)

A single (individual) person of your age checking out would have no problem, because there was one ID for one purchase.

So for me, I would ask the management of the store if I found myself in a similar situation -- that if I wished to purchase beer, along with my grocery shopping, and I had someone with me that did not have an ID for a purchase they were not making, if it their policy that I could not do that, unless I left them (my family) in the car, and the store employees did not know they were with me.

If the store has such a policy that would require me to leave my family in the car in such a situation for the two hours it took to shop, in order for me to make a legal purchase that anyone of my age with proof of it could make alone, they are in effect, IMO, penalizing me for the presence of my family. I would let them know that is how is appears to me. And, I would adjust my shopping accordingly -- like maybe not shopping there.

They may, or may not, value the input. :)
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
I've given it some thought and I think this is one of those situations that I would make an inquiry with the store as to what their actual policy is (for future reference,) and also let them know the impression the experience left on me, as a customer. I would wait until the issue no longer had an emotional charge, so it could be discussed calmly.

As I understand it, were your family not with you, there would have been no problem, since you had proper ID. It was only your wife that did not. (I missed that you specified all adults in the post I quoted previously.)

A single (individual) person of your age checking out would have no problem, because there was one ID for one purchase.
Walmart does have an odd policy where they card everyone in the group (or at least it seems that way, but I have heard of them carding not just the person buying alcohol here). This is because the cashier and store can get in trouble for selling to someone of age who is buying for a minor. I don't know how this is supposed to work, or even be enforceable, but it is the law.
Myself, as a former cashier, I couldn't care less about how you felt about being carded. I even had someone complain about me to the main office because I carded them and would not sell to them because they didn't have their ID (which turned into a compliment from the office for doing my job). I have been yelled at, cussed at, and have seen an array of upset and angry reactions because I asked to see ID. I don't care. No ID = No tobacco/alcohol. I don't care if it ruins your night.
 
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4consideration

*
Premium Member
Walmart does have an odd policy where they card everyone in the group (or at least it seems that way, but I have heard of them carding not just the person buying alcohol here). This is because the cashier and store can get in trouble for selling to someone of age who is buying for a minor. I don't know how this is supposed to work, or even be enforceable, but it is the law.
I haven't run into both of us having to show ID there. I would have mine on me if I drove, but since I don't like to carry luggage (a purse) especially when shopping, we've had similar situations where I wouldn't have an ID on me if my husband drove.

I think this is the main issue here. I do wonder how a store might be held accountable for something they could not control. The only thing I think a store can really do is require proof of legal age during the transaction actually conducted -- the sale. Whether or not a person gives their purchase to someone underage at some later point is outside the scope of the store's ability to exercise any control.

After writing out a lengthy reply, I decided to do a search on Wal-Mart's alcohol policy. I saw postings of people complaining about being refused the sale of alcohol due to things like, running into a friend while shopping and both approaching the checkout counter at the same time -- the friend not having an ID and not buying alcohol -- but that friend being required to show proof of ID for someone else's separate purchase, because they appeared to know each other -- even though they did not arrive at the store together, and it was only a chance encounter...and...being refused the sale of alcohol for having their own child with them of the age that might appear to be a teenager, even though they were not.

I haven't been able to find for sure if it a law, identify what law that is -- or if it's a store policy.

If there is really such a law, I think we have reached the stage of bizarre law wackiness, that we would have laws (supposedly for the protection of children) that would easily encourage some people to leave their children unattended at home, or in the car, so as not to be a spectator in a legal purchase.

I can't see how anyone would think such a law would stop someone of legal age, who intends to purchase alcohol and give it to someone underage, from doing so. The only thing they have to do is not have the underage person go in the store with them. It won't stop the kinds of sales it's intended to address. I see no benefit from it.

Myself, as a former cashier, I couldn't care less about how you felt about being carded. I even had someone complain about me to the main office because I carded them and would not sell to them because they didn't have their ID (which turned into a compliment from the office for doing my job). I have been yelled at, cussed at, and have seen an array of upset and angry reactions because I asked to see ID. I don't care. No ID = No tobacco/alcohol. I don't care if it ruins your night.
I agree with you about carding everyone. If I was a cashier selling alcohol, even if I wasn't required to, I would most likely card everyone making a purchase, for the simple fact of it being that I could truthfully say I card everyone that I sell alcohol to, and I would apologize to the grandpa/grandma customer that I card everyone equally, while requiring they show it to me.

I've been in retail before (not selling alcohol) and I totally get it that cashiers in such situations would often have to deal with people just dumping their frustration about the law on them, and I would not expect a cashier to have to assume the actual risk just because someone buying alcohol didn't bring their ID with them. People know there is a legal age established for buying alcohol. That's no secret.

I have issue with making arbitrary connections of proximity to and requirements of people not making a purchase, as if they are making a purchase. If it's a law, I think it's a bad law. If it's a policy, and simply not posted -- I think it's a poor business practice to have such a policy and not post it clearly.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
I haven't been able to find for sure if it a law, identify what law that is -- or if it's a store policy.
If there is really such a law, I think we have reached the stage of bizarre law wackiness, that we would have laws (supposedly for the protection of children) that would easily encourage some people to leave their children unattended at home, or in the car, so as not to be a spectator in a legal purchase.
To my knowledge there is no law that requires asking for ID of everyone. However, a few times someone would come in to buy something (like cigars that didn't sell that well or a brand of cigarettes that we didn't sell that much of), I carded them, sent them on their way, and then about a minute later sent their friend away for picking up the same thing. And once sent another friend away, and then another. I don't know how it's supposed to be enforceable, but the law does hold it against the cashier when someone of age buys for a minor. I would suspect that being the basis for the odd carding policies here and there, such as carding someone who just happened to run into a friend at Wal Mart.
But really the law is so bad, at least in Indiana, that you can't even buy matches until you are 18. These means that scouts who are working on badges cannot even by matches to start a fire.
 
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