Watchtower Governing Body: Are They The Exclusive Channel For God??

[Mountain_Climber]

Revelation 1:7-8 in the New World Translation says that someone "is coming." Who? Verse 7 says it is someone who was "pierced." Who was it that was pierced when he was nailed up to die? Jesus! But verse 8 says that it is Jehovah God who "is coming." Could it be that there are two who are coming? No, as Verse 8 refers to "the One who... Is coming."
Revelation 1:8 states clearly that Jehovah God is the Alpha and Omega. Now note what he says at Revelation 22:12-13:
"Look! I am coming quickly... I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last..." So, Jehovah God is coming quickly. But notice the response when he says it again:
"'Yes; I am coming quickly." Amen! Come, Lord Jesus.'" (NWT)
So who is speaking in Revelation 2:8? "These are the things that he says, 'the First and the Last,' who became dead and came back to life again."
Obviously it's Jesus. Who was Jesus identifying Himself as being, when He called Himself "the First and the Last?" This is how Almighty God described Himself in the Old Testament (Isaiah 48:12-13)

Who is the "Lord" of Joel 2:32? It's Jehovah right? Since the "Lord" of Acts 2:21 was nailed to a cross, raised from the dead, and ascended to heaven, who, then, is this "Lord" of Acts 2:21? Obviously Jesus. Since Peter is quoting Joel 2:32 in Acts 2:21 as being fulfilled in Jesus Christ, what does it say about Jesus' True Identity?

Should I let you get away with this?

Frankly, my dear, ..... there are many ways one can twist things.

I am waiting on Pegg to rise to the call.

Need I speak the direct words from my own knowledge of the language?

I can. And i will if you ask me nicely.

Where has savagewind gone? I miss her.

 

[JayJayDee]

Clearly your Jesus is not directing you well or your not listening to the True Jesus if your organization keeps making false predictions and prophecies concerning future events. And for an organization to not say there a prophet, they sure do make a lot of prophecies.
And feeding His flock what exactly? A distorted version of His word? That's not manna from heaven mate. And your right, no one is force feeding anyone. But if we see a false doctrine leading people away from the Truth we are commanded to confront it just as Jesus and the Apostles did.

Can you point us poor deluded souls to your true church then, JFish? Who are the appointed leaders who are keeping watch over your soul, may I ask? Who are your spiritual shepherds whom you are told to obey? (Heb 13:7, 17) Why have they never approached me with the good news of the kingdom? Are they known for their unity, peace and their global preaching work? Have I ever heard of them? Have I ever sighted them doing what Jesus commanded in my neighbourhood?

I am rather sick of the same tired old accusations...what false prophesies or predictions have we made that were not simply mistakes in the timing of one prophesy? It was Jesus' prophesy, not ours. The early musings of the faithful slave were just the process of things being revealed.....gradually over time refinements were expected. When we made errors in the timing or expectation of events, we admitted them and moved on. But we kept on the watch as Jesus told us to. (Matt 24:42-44)

When Christendom was informed about the origins of their beliefs...they kept right on believing them. (2 Cor 6:14-18)

A distorted version of God's word? It wouldn't matter what I showed you as proof of the validity of our translation, you would not accept it. You don't want to accept the proof...so, that is up to you.

Did Jesus' disciples have to make adjustments in their expectations? Did Jesus reveal everything to them all at once? The first prophesy in Gen 3:15 was not understood for thousands of years....yet when the time was right, the details became manifest to God's servants. Clarifications keep coming as we expect them to. If the light was not to get brighter on our path, why would God tell us that? (Prov 4:18) If the "final part of the days" was not to see an abundance of knowledge made available for the refinement and cleansing of God's people, then why did Daniel tell us that they would? Why do you think they needed cleansing and refining? The answer is obvious to us. (Dan 12:4, 9, 10) Insight was only to be given to those who accepted the cleansing, the rest would understand nothing.

The command to "get out of Babylon the great" was not understood either until, these last days when she was clearly identified. (Rev 18:4, 5) Have you obeyed that directive?

What "manna" are you feeding people? The pagan trinity? Immortality of the soul? Hellfire? You speak about people being led away from the truth....but what you believe was never the truth in the first place! What you accept as truth is Catholic doctrine developed and introduced by the weeds of Jesus parable in the fourth century. You didn't reject them, or separate from them....you embraced them! So clearly Jesus is not directing you either. Guess we are both lost then.......what do you reckon we just let Jesus do his job and be the judge?

One of us might be very surprised.

 

[Mountain_Climber]

I got tired of waiting, so ponder this:

1:1 A revelation of Anointed Jesus that God gave to Jesus, to point out to his slaves the things

that will necessarily happen in a short time, and which Jesus sent out afterward through Jesus'

messenger to John, Jesus' slave, who testified to God's message and the testimony of Anointed Jesus (as many things as John saw).

Blessed is the one who reads, and those who hear, the sayings of the prophecy and who keep the things that are written in it. For the season is near.


4 John,

To those seven assemblies that are in Asia.

Hello to you, and peace from the one [God] who is, and who was, and who is coming, and from the seven spirits that are in the presence of his throne, and from Anointed Jesus: the witness; the trustworthy one; the firstborn of the dead; and the one who rules the kings of the land.


To Jesus who loves us and releases us from our sins with his blood, and who made a kingdom for us we are priests to God; that is, his Father – to God be the glory and the might for ever and ever. Amen.


7 ""Look! He [Jesus} is coming with the clouds," and every eye will see him, “even the ones who pierced him, and all the tribes of the land will lament over him.”


[God gave the message to Jesus to give to his servant John, and so God is the one speaking, saying,] "Yes indeed. "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says Yahweh God: the one who is, and who was, and who is coming; the Almighty."


****** - ****** - ******


Now, because it says, “ Look! He [Jesus} is coming with the clouds”, and the says, “Yahweh God: the one who is, and who was, and who is coming; the Almighty", you assume that means Jesus is the God who is coming.


Dumb, dumb, Jesus' purpose is to reunite us with the Father. Jesus is not about seeking his own glory.


Naturally Jesus' coming and conquering is bringing God to us with him. That is what he lives to do. He is totally about honoring his Father and bringing that honoring of the Father back here where God was intended to be for us.

We have prevented it. All it takes for God to come to us is for Jesus to show us the way to cease preventing God.

John 3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

Matthew 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.



Do you know how to chuckle?

 

[Pegg]

Clearly your Jesus is not directing you well or your not listening to the True Jesus if your organization keeps making false predictions and prophecies concerning future events. And for an organization to not say there a prophet, they sure do make a lot of prophecies.
And feeding His flock what exactly? A distorted version of His word? That's not manna from heaven mate. And your right, no one is force feeding anyone. But if we see a false doctrine leading people away from the Truth we are commanded to confront it just as Jesus and the Apostles did.

I hear you keep saying the WT make a lot of prophecies when its simply not the case.

The GB have never uttered a prophecy. They are not prophets. They dont claim to be prophets and we dont view them as prophets.

There are no prophets on the earth today. God doesnt need them. He has already revealed everything we need to know and there will be no new prophecies to utter until after the 1000 year reign of Christ.

 

[Mountain_Climber]

I hear you keep saying the WT make a lot of prophecies when its simply not the case.

The GB have never uttered a prophecy. They are not prophets. They dont claim to be prophets and we dont view them as prophets.

There are no prophets on the earth today. God doesnt need them. He has already revealed everything we need to know and there will be no new prophecies to utter until after the 1000 year reign of Christ.

That is how I see it. They do not utter prophecies.

However, whenever anyone's eye is dark, darkness is all they look to try to find in others.

They, that is these fault finders, have blinded themselves by the fancy of their own thinking ability.

 

[savagewind]

Why would anyone bother...you have made up your mind already....go in peace and be happy with your choice.

There is no lie taught to anyone for 100 years. The GB have never claimed to be prophets in the same sense as Moses or Jeremiah with whom God communicated personally. They are directed by Jesus as the "faithful and discreet slave" appointed by him to "feed" the entire household of fellow slaves. No one is force feeding you. If you don't like the food...leave.

The whiners and complainers have never rated well with God, so why the vendetta? Perhaps the words of Gamaliel are in order...? (Acts 5:35-39)

The Jehovah's Witnesses do not make themselves equal to Jeremiah in the same sense that Jeremiah is a prophet. They DO make themselves equal to God whenever they say that leaving the Jehovah's Witnesses is the same as leaving Jehovah. THE SAME

 

[savagewind]

I hear you keep saying the WT make a lot of prophecies when its simply not the case.

The GB have never uttered a prophecy. They are not prophets. They dont claim to be prophets and we dont view them as prophets.

There are no prophets on the earth today. God doesnt need them. He has already revealed everything we need to know and there will be no new prophecies to utter until after the 1000 year reign of Christ.

They prophesied a house for the prominent ones of Israel. Circa 1929
Beth Sarim - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Pegg]

Hey Pegg, Could you post for me what you consider to be the gospel of the kingdom?

if i could put it in a nutshell I would say its about the restoration of all things by means of Christ Jesus. The end of death and suffering, the justifcation of all past wrongs, the destruction of the wicked one who rules this world and all who follow his wicked ways. The beginning of something new and the end of the world we've known. A bright new day.

 

[Pegg]

Frankly, I feel like there may be a correlation to cannibalism and organ transplant,

I just don't believe it shows a complete trust in God, if not to heal us now then to resurrect us.

Even so, I advocate that it is a conscience matter.

I agree it is a conscience matter. I dont view it as an act of cannibalism to have a transplant. The only organ transplant we are directly forbidden is blood.... blood itself is an organ. Im also pretty sure that the WT have stated that organ transplant is a conscience matter.

 

[Pegg]

Revelation 1:7-8 in the New World Translation says that someone "is coming." Who? Verse 7 says it is someone who was "pierced." Who was it that was pierced when he was nailed up to die? Jesus! But verse 8 says that it is Jehovah God who "is coming." Could it be that there are two who are coming? No, as Verse 8 refers to "the One who... Is coming."
Revelation 1:8 states clearly that Jehovah God is the Alpha and Omega. Now note what he says at Revelation 22:12-13:
"Look! I am coming quickly... I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last..." So, Jehovah God is coming quickly. But notice the response when he says it again:
"'Yes; I am coming quickly." Amen! Come, Lord Jesus.'" (NWT)
So who is speaking in Revelation 2:8? "These are the things that he says, 'the First and the Last,' who became dead and came back to life again."
Obviously it's Jesus. Who was Jesus identifying Himself as being, when He called Himself "the First and the Last?" This is how Almighty God described Himself in the Old Testament (Isaiah 48:12-13)

Who is the "Lord" of Joel 2:32? It's Jehovah right? Since the "Lord" of Acts 2:21 was nailed to a cross, raised from the dead, and ascended to heaven, who, then, is this "Lord" of Acts 2:21? Obviously Jesus. Since Peter is quoting Joel 2:32 in Acts 2:21 as being fulfilled in Jesus Christ, what does it say about Jesus' True Identity?

Revelation swings backwards and forwards between Jehovah and Jesus. Unfortunately, because apostate christians chose to remove the name of God the Father from the bible, identifying which is which has become a little tricky for some.

 

[katiemygirl]

That will never happen.

We disfellowship approx 60,000 people every year for immorality. There is no way our GB will change Gods moral laws. We are not even permitted to smoke cigarettes....you really think that they will permit homosexuality??? its not going to happen. Our GB is spirit directed. As you said, the bible hasnt changed and nor have Gods moral standards.

I pray you are right. My congregation won't change their stance, and neither will I, but sadly, many will.

 

[katiemygirl]

if i could put it in a nutshell I would say its about the restoration of all things by means of Christ Jesus. The end of death and suffering, the justifcation of all past wrongs, the destruction of the wicked one who rules this world and all who follow his wicked ways. The beginning of something new and the end of the world we've known. A bright new day.

You say you and others go door to door preaching the gospel of the kingdom. Is what you wrote above what you tell people? Exactly what words would you use at my door?

 

[Pegg]

The Watchtower has had a very bad track record regarding changing it's position on medical issues. Take vaccinations for example. The Golden Age Magazine (1931) said that a "vaccination is a direct violation of the everlasting covenant that God made with Noah after the flood." Vaccinations were hence forbidden by the Watchtower Society for 20 years.

Golden Age magazine is from the 1800's... its what our current 'awake' magazine was first named when it began. I dont know the reasoning behind the early bible students views. However, no JW today base their views on the views of the past. We look at what is right now and follow it. And right now vaccinations are a conscience matter.

Blood is prohibited in the scriptures. There is no way around it. Blood belongs to God, it represents the life of the soul and it does not belong to us to use as we please. I believe the prohibition on blood is there for a very good reason and Im happy to abstain. If I wasnt happy to abstain, I wouldnt become a JW.

 

[Pegg]

You say you and others go door to door preaching the gospel of the kingdom. Is what you wrote above what you tell people? Exactly what words would you use at my door?

Each door may be different...what I say depends on who comes to the door. I usually begin with a greeting and let them know I'm participating in a worldwide voluntary christian service. I let them know that we have some good news to share with them regarding a particular worldwide problem. Or if I meet a person of another religion, I commend them on having a faith and ask them about their religion...I try to find common ground (as most religions hold similar precepts and ideas) and show them a verse or two from the bible which agrees with their view. This often leads into a discussion about the bible and the God of the bible. I use the bible to introduce them to Jehovah by showing them Psalm 83:18

But of course a conversation may go in several directions... every householder is different.

 

[Pegg]

I pray you are right. My congregation won't change their stance, and neither will I, but sadly, many will.

May i ask what your denomination is?

 

[katiemygirl]

Each door may be different...what I say depends on who comes to the door. I usually begin with a greeting and let them know I'm participating in a worldwide voluntary christian service. I let them know that we have some good news to share with them regarding a particular worldwide problem. Or if I meet a person of another religion, I commend them on having a faith and ask them about their religion...I try to find common ground (as most religions hold similar precepts and ideas) and show them a verse or two from the bible which agrees with their view. This often leads into a discussion about the bible and the God of the bible. I use the bible to introduce them to Jehovah by showing them Psalm 83:18

But of course a conversation may go in several directions... every householder is different.

Yes, I understand meeting people where they are at. Jesus did that.

But my message is the same to all. I preach Christ crucified. I tell them that we are all sinners and that Jesus fulfilled God’s prophetic plan to forgive and save us. I tell them that Jesus did it by His death, burial and resurection. Then I explain what His plan of salvation is.

 

[Pegg]

I've come to realize that JW's pick and choose which of God's laws they keep. Or more accurate, which ones support their doctrine. The gentleman I study with swears by "Thou shall not kill" but claims that "keep the Sabbath holy" means nothing to Christians. How can one of God's commandants mean something and another one mean nothing?

the sabbath is a mosaic law. It doesnt apply to christians in the way it applied to Israel.

The Sabbath became the 'rest day' that christians were told to 'enter into' when speaking of the Sabbath, Paul says:
Hebrews 4:
3 For we who have exercised faith do enter into the rest, just as he has said: “So I swore in my anger, ‘They will not enter into my rest,’”+ although his works were finished from the founding of the world.+4 For in one place he has said of the seventh day as follows: “And God rested on the seventh day from all his works,”+5 and here again he says: “They will not enter into my rest.”+
6 Therefore, since it remains for some to enter into it, and those to whom the good news was first declared did not enter in because of disobedience,+ 7 he again marks off a certain day by saying long afterward in David’s psalm, “Today”; just as it has been said above, “Today if you listen to his voice, do not harden your hearts.”+ 8 For if Joshua+ had led them into a place of rest, God would not afterward have spoken of another day. 9 So there remains a sabbath-rest for the people of God.+ 10 For the man who has entered into God’s rest has also rested from his own works, just as God did from his own.

Entering into Gods Rest, or his Sabbath, requires that Christians devote themselves to doing Gods Will. We enter the sabbath when we become his servants and use our lives to do his Will. Thats why we dont need to observe a weekly sabbath....every day is a sabbath to a Christian.

 

[katiemygirl]

May i ask what your denomination is?

I am nondenominational. I have belonged to the Lord's congregation since 1978.

 

[Pegg]

Yes, I understand meeting people where they are at. Jesus did that.

But my message is the same to all. I preach Christ crucified. I tell them that we are all sinners and that Jesus fulfilled God’s prophetic plan to forgive and save us. I tell them that Jesus did it by His death, burial and resurection. Then I explain what His plan of salvation is.

What if you are talking to a person who does not believe in inherited sin? What would you say to such a person??

 

[katiemygirl]

What if you are talking to a person who does not believe in inherited sin? What would you say to such a person??

I would tell them they are absolutely correct!