Wayne County canvasser William Hartmann dies after contracting coronavirus

[Wandering Monk]

How many more of these do we need to hear before Republicans take this disease seriously and get vaccinated?

William Hartmann, a Republican member of the Wayne County Board of Canvassers, has died after being hospitalized with COVID-19.

The Michigan GOP received word of Hartmann's death Tuesday, said Gustavo Portela, communications director for the party. Prominent Michigan Republicans posted memories of Hartmann and had been asking for prayers for him in recent days.​

Wayne County canvasser Hartmann dies after contracting coronavirus

 

[Twilight Hue]

How many more of these do we need to hear before Republicans take this disease seriously and get vaccinated?

William Hartmann, a Republican member of the Wayne County Board of Canvassers, has died after being hospitalized with COVID-19.

The Michigan GOP received word of Hartmann's death Tuesday, said Gustavo Portela, communications director for the party. Prominent Michigan Republicans posted memories of Hartmann and had been asking for prayers for him in recent days.​

Wayne County canvasser Hartmann dies after contracting coronavirus

Unfortunately there's fully vaccinated people of note who died as well. Like Colin Powell awhile back.

Maybe taking it seriously is just going to take more time until something substantial comes our way.

 

[We Never Know]

How many more of these do we need to hear before Republicans take this disease seriously and get vaccinated?

William Hartmann, a Republican member of the Wayne County Board of Canvassers, has died after being hospitalized with COVID-19.

The Michigan GOP received word of Hartmann's death Tuesday, said Gustavo Portela, communications director for the party. Prominent Michigan Republicans posted memories of Hartmann and had been asking for prayers for him in recent days.​

Wayne County canvasser Hartmann dies after contracting coronavirus

Explain this to me.

What confuses me is.. In my opinion the vaccine isn't "training" the immune system very well if we have to keep getting boosters. Some will argue its because of variants but the boosters are the same formulations as the vaccine.
So people are getting shots of the same original vaccine formulation for a booster


From WHO "Vaccines train our immune systems to create proteins that fight disease, known as ‘antibodies’, just as would happen when we are exposed to a disease but – crucially – vaccines work without making us sick."

Coronavirus disease (COVID-19): Herd immunity, lockdowns and COVID-19.

From CDC "COVID-19 booster shots are the same formulation as the current COVID-19 vaccines. However, in the case of the Moderna COVID-19 vaccine booster shot, it is half the dose of the vaccine people get for their primary series."

COVID-19 Booster Shot.


So my thinking is...Being the vaccine and the boosters are the same formulation, won't it make your immune system create the same "antibodies" with each shot, no matter the variant?

However your immune system should be able to create those antibodies naturally after the vaccine. Thats the point of the vacinne, to get your immune system to identify the virus an then naturally create antibodies to fight it.

If you've already been vaccinated, your immune system is now aware of the virus and should be able to naturally make antibodies to the virus if you get it right?

Antibodies from the vaccine tend to dissipate over time which is why the vaccine supposedly trains your immune system so it can react and produce them when needed, naturally.

So why do people have to keep getting boosters if our immune system should be producing antibodies naturally since we are vaccinated?

 

[Wandering Monk]

Explain this to me.

What confuses me is.. In my opinion the vaccine isn't "training" the immune system very well if we have to keep getting boosters. Some will argue its because of variants but the boosters are the same formulations as the vaccine.
So people are getting shots of the same original vaccine formulation for a booster


From WHO "Vaccines train our immune systems to create proteins that fight disease, known as ‘antibodies’, just as would happen when we are exposed to a disease but – crucially – vaccines work without making us sick."

Coronavirus disease (COVID-19): Herd immunity, lockdowns and COVID-19.

From CDC "COVID-19 booster shots are the same formulation as the current COVID-19 vaccines. However, in the case of the Moderna COVID-19 vaccine booster shot, it is half the dose of the vaccine people get for their primary series."

COVID-19 Booster Shot.


So my thinking is...Being the vaccine and the boosters are the same formulation, won't it make your immune system create the same "antibodies" with each shot, no matter the variant?

However your immune system should be able to create those antibodies naturally after the vaccine. Thats the point of the vacinne, to get your immune system to identify the virus an then naturally create antibodies to fight it.

If you've already been vaccinated, your immune system is now aware of the virus and should be able to naturally make antibodies to the virus if you get it right?

Antibodies from the vaccine tend to dissipate over time which is why the vaccine supposedly trains your immune system so it can react and produce them when needed, naturally.

So why do people have to keep getting boosters if our immune system should be producing antibodies naturally since we are vaccinated?

The vaccines were designed for a different variant and were highly effective against alpha. So, the chances of being infected with the new variant are quite a bit higher. The vaccines are still highly effective in reducing hospitalization and death by the new variants (nearly 90%.)

Antibodies from natural infection wane over time also. If they didn't our bloodstream would be full of antibodies from every infection we ever experienced. This is where the adaptive immune system kicks in. Memory B and T cells remember previous encounters with a virus and reactivates your immune system response including creating antibodies and macrophages that kill the virus.

 

[We Never Know]

The vaccines were designed for a different variant and were highly effective against alpha. So, the chances of being infected with the new variant are quite a bit higher. The vaccines are still highly effective in reducing hospitalization and death by the new variants (nearly 90%.)

Antibodies from natural infection wane over time also. If they didn't our bloodstream would be full of antibodies from every infection we ever experienced. This is where the adaptive immune system kicks in. Memory B and T cells remember previous encounters with a virus and reactivates your immune system response including creating antibodies and macrophages that kill the virus.

"The vaccines were designed for a different variant"
Then what good are boosters since they are the same formulation of the shot you've already taken?

"Antibodies from natural infection wane over time"
So do antibodies from a vaccine. But after the vaccine your immune system should readily produce antibodies if you get the virus right? So why do you need a booster of the same formulation every 3-5 months since you already had a vaccine of the same formulation that makes your immune system produce those antibodies?

 

[We Never Know]

How many more of these do we need to hear before Republicans take this disease seriously and get vaccinated?

William Hartmann, a Republican member of the Wayne County Board of Canvassers, has died after being hospitalized with COVID-19.

The Michigan GOP received word of Hartmann's death Tuesday, said Gustavo Portela, communications director for the party. Prominent Michigan Republicans posted memories of Hartmann and had been asking for prayers for him in recent days.​

Wayne County canvasser Hartmann dies after contracting coronavirus

If you took the flu vaccine in November, will you need a booster in February?

Did these require boosters...
SARS-CoV Severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) in 2002
MERS-CoV Middle East respiratory syndrome (MERS) 2011/2012

 

[Wandering Monk]

"The vaccines were designed for a different variant"
Then what good are boosters since they are the same formulation of the shot you've already taken?

"Antibodies from natural infection wane over time"
So do antibodies from a vaccine. But after the vaccine your immune system should readily produce antibodies if you get the virus right? So why do you need a booster of the same formulation every 3-5 months since you already had a vaccine of the same formulation that makes your immune system produce those antibodies?

Because if the antibodies are already present via a booster (or recent infection) the response is quicker. It takes time for your adaptive immune system to gear up.

People who have been boosted (or recently infected) have less severe symptoms, generally lower viral loads and clear the virus quicker. This reduces the period when they are contagious and reduces the dose they give to other people when they are.

 

[ecco]

Unfortunately there's fully vaccinated people of note who died as well. Like Colin Powell awhile back.

Keep reveling in your wilful ignorance.

Ratio of vaccinated to unvaccinated deaths is about 90:10

How many times do you need to be given the same basic facts?

 

[ecco]

What confuses me is.. In my opinion the vaccine isn't "training" the immune system very well if we have to keep getting boosters.

Your opinion is duly noted.

However your immune system should be able to create those antibodies naturally after the vaccine. Thats the point of the vacinne, to get your immune system to identify the virus an then naturally create antibodies to fight it.

Why do you think the vaccines are supposed to be 100% effective over your lifetime?

So why do people have to keep getting boosters if our immune system should be producing antibodies naturally since we are vaccinated?

Maybe you should change your thought process from "We Never Know" to "I'll Try to Learn".

 

[ecco]

So why do you need a booster of the same formulation every 3-5 months since you already had a vaccine of the same formulation

Maybe because human immune systems are forgetful.

Some people catch colds and get the flu many times, some hardly at all.

Maybe in fifty years, pharmas will be able to create vaccines that will be more effective in training the human response system.

Thanks to the science that is so despised by some religious people, what we have now is better than what we had 100 years ago.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Unfortunately there's fully vaccinated people of note who died as well. Like Colin Powell awhile back.

And people have died in lifeboats.

 

[We Never Know]

Your opinion is duly noted.



Why do you think the vaccines are supposed to be 100% effective over your lifetime?




Maybe you should change your thought process from "We Never Know" to "I'll Try to Learn".

Vaccines prevent diseases that can be dangerous, or even deadly. Vaccines greatly reduce the risk of infection by working with the body’s natural defenses to safely develop immunity to disease. This fact sheet explains how the body fights infection and how vaccines work to protect people by producing immunity.

• Macrophagesmedia icon are white blood cells that swallow up and digest germs, plus dead or dying cells. The macrophages leave behind parts of the invading germs called antigens. The body identifies antigens as dangerous and stimulates antibodies to attack them.
• B-lymphocytes are defensive white blood cells. They produce antibodies that attack the antigens left behind by the macrophages.
• T-lymphocytes are another type of defensive white blood cell. They attack cells in the body that have already been infected.

The first time the body encounters a germ, it can take several days to make and use all the germ-fighting tools needed to get over the infection. After the infection, the immune system remembers what it learned about how to protect the body against that disease.

The body keeps a few T-lymphocytes, called memory cells, that go into action quickly if the body encounters the same germ again. When the familiar antigens are detected, B-lymphocytes produce antibodies to attack them.

Understanding How Vaccines Work | CDC

 

[ecco]

If you've already been vaccinated, your immune system is now aware of the virus and should be able to naturally make antibodies to the virus if you get it right?

I asked why you think vaccines should be 100% effective.

Why do you think the vaccines are supposed to be 100% effective over your lifetime?

Instead of answering you cut and paste from a CDC site that explains how vaccines work.

Vaccines prevent diseases that can be dangerous, or even deadly. Vaccines greatly reduce the risk of infection by working with the body’s natural defenses to safely develop immunity to disease.
...

Understanding How Vaccines Work | CDC

I know how they work. I also know how effective they are and can be. This is where you and I differ. So, I'll ask again...
Why do you think the vaccines are supposed to be 100% effective over your lifetime?

Did you even bother reading what you pasted? Like this part...

Vaccines greatly reduce the risk of infection...​

So, again, Why do you think the vaccines are supposed to be 100% effective over your lifetime?

 

[We Never Know]

​

I asked why you think vaccines should be 100% effective.

​

Instead of answering you cut and paste from a CDC site that explains how vaccines work.

​

I know how they work. I also know how effective they are and can be. This is where you and I differ. So, I'll ask again...
Why do you think the vaccines are supposed to be 100% effective over your lifetime?

Did you even bother reading what you pasted? Like this part...

Vaccines greatly reduce the risk of infection...​

So, again, Why do you think the vaccines are supposed to be 100% effective over your lifetime?

Where have I said they are or should be 100% effective? I have not.

You missed the point of why I posted the link....
"The first time the body encounters a germ, it can take several days to make and use all the germ-fighting tools needed to get over the infection. After the infection, the immune system remembers what it learned about how to protect the body against that disease."

So after the vaccine your body should have
learned about how to protect the body against that disease"

Variants seem not matter if you are getting the same formulation of the vaccine in the booster shots.

 

[ecco]

Where have I said they are or should be 100% effective? I have not.

Your previous posts gave it away...(My emphases)

What confuses me is.. In my opinion the vaccine isn't "training" the immune system very well if we have to keep getting boosters.

If you've already been vaccinated, your immune system is now aware of the virus and should be able to naturally make antibodies to the virus if you get it right?

So why do people have to keep getting boosters if our immune system should be producing antibodies naturally since we are vaccinated?

I could quote from many of your other posts. It's always the same nonsense. You are against the vaccines because you don't like the way the vaccines work.

However, they do work as advertised:

• High level of protection against getting infected.
• High level of protection against getting severely ill and/or dying.

200,000 mostly unvaccinated people have died since the vaccines were widely available in this country.

Most probably many of those 200,000 infected other mostly unvaccinated people before their symptoms became known to them.

Keep up the good work.

​

 

[We Never Know]

Your previous posts gave it away...(My emphases)

​

I could quote from many of your other posts. It's always the same nonsense. You are against the vaccines because you don't like the way the vaccines work.

However, they do work as advertised:

• High level of protection against getting infected.
• High level of protection against getting severely ill and/or dying.

200,000 mostly unvaccinated people have died since the vaccines were widely available in this country.

Most probably many of those 200,000 infected other mostly unvaccinated people before their symptoms became known to them.

Keep up the good work.

​

Lmao! These are fact...well the first one is my opinion but the vaccine is supposed to train your immune system.

We Never Know said: ↑
What confuses me is.. In my opinion the vaccine isn't "training" the immune system very well if we have to keep getting boosters.
We Never Know said: ↑
If you've already been vaccinated, your immune system is now aware of the virus and should be able to naturally make antibodies to the virus if you get it right?
We Never Know said: ↑
So why do people have to keep getting boosters if our immune system should be producing antibodies naturally since we are vaccinated?


Herd immunity (or community immunity) occurs when a high percentage of the community is immune to a disease (through vaccination and/or prior illness).

It happens because people whether vaccinated or prior illness, their immune system is now aware of the virus and should be able to naturally make antibodies to the virus.

 

[We Never Know]

Your previous posts gave it away...(My emphases)

​

I could quote from many of your other posts. It's always the same nonsense. You are against the vaccines because you don't like the way the vaccines work.

However, they do work as advertised:

• High level of protection against getting infected.
• High level of protection against getting severely ill and/or dying.

200,000 mostly unvaccinated people have died since the vaccines were widely available in this country.

Most probably many of those 200,000 infected other mostly unvaccinated people before their symptoms became known to them.

Keep up the good work.

​

Over 200 million in the US vaccinated and we are still seeing more cases and deaths.

U.S. has already seen more COVID deaths in 2021 than 2020 before vaccines were available
U.S. has already seen more COVID deaths in 2021 than 2020 before vaccines were available, as experts again warn pandemic is not over - MarketWatch