Welfare Pays More Than Minimum Wage In 35 States

[Dirty Penguin]

Geeze....I'm just bust'n yer chops for being a gubmint employee.

The government, be it federal or state, have a role in our lives. When I worked federal I worked in the Facilities Dept. at the National Gallery of Art and later as I got into technology I worked for ATF. We can rail against government all we like but I see no reason why one can't work for the government. Be that as it may I'm not a "big government" kind of person. I believe government should operate in a smart, efficient and in the most cost effective manner possible. I have my budget line and always stay below my budget.

But our perspectives do differ, since I'm a business owner.

And I can't help to wonder how many business loans you've had that weren't back by federal funds and or federal loan protection. This may not be the way all loans are structured/protected but banks don't lend out of the kindness of their heart. And what about the millions upon millions with bank accounts that are FDIC insured, are they government dependent. See, using the "I'm a business owner" line doesn't work with me as much.. as I've run a grant writing service dealing with and adhering to its own set of government regulations and a computer repair service and I come from a long line of successful family members who own their own businesses. I'm also very active in my community with other business owners.

I see taxes I pay as my money they take, not a return of their money.

I don't see taxes as "their money"....I see taxes differently than you or others. Since I've been both federal and state government I understand what overall budgets look like as well as budget lines and see what it takes to make government function. Taxes are important for the function of a government. There's the line ("You get what you pay for"), well if you barely want to pay anything then you get what you pay for. But again....it doesn't mean I advocate paying all my hard earned lute to the feds either.

My "paid vacation" reference is to many people I've known who treat unemployment insurance as exactly that.

So your generalization wasn't really meant as a generalization? OK.

They didn't look for a job until it was about to run out. Yes, it actually happens with real people.

Then it needs reform. Here in the metropolitan area if you draw unemployment you have to show that you're actively seeking employment in order to receive your benefits. The public assistance has a similar design. If you're receiving PA it won't be for long and case workers (which my sister in-law is one of here in VA.) hound you to find employment, get you training etc. When you get employment your assistance is reduced or cut off.

Moreover, under some circumstances in MI, employees can collect unemployment from employers while still working for them, even after turning down offers of more hours. A tailor shop owner I know had this happen.

Again, this is where effective regulation and oversight comes in. This kind of scenario should not happen.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

:yes: I know people who got caught in the system this way. Bureaucracies have a way of trapping people like that. My cousin was in this situation for a while. He was working in a factory full-time through a temp agency and they wanted to hire him and promote him, but he had to turn it down because the extra few hundred dollars a month mean he would have lost much more than that in SNAP and Medicaid for his kids.

Sure, you can make more in the long run by taking the cut in benefits, but when you have kids to feed, they are hungry now not two years from now.

He finally found a job that he can survive on without benefits, but he works 70 to 80 hours over seven days a week for just under 30,000 a year. Hows that for a "paid vacation". I know it probably blows some people's minds that someone could work full-time with over-time and still not be able to survive, but those of us near the bottom know that it happens... a lot.

They need to work it so the loss in benefits matches the extra money you get. Like if you get promoted and make an extra 200 a month, your benefits decrease by 200 and not 400 or 500 or more.

I've been on that side of the workforce as well. I'm a salaried employee. My contract tells me how many hours I work and that I get 30 minutes for lunch. There are times when I work 14 hours a day.....but get no overtime and no comp. time.....even so my situation pales in comparison to much of what you just described.

 

[Revoltingest]

The government, be it federal or state, have a role in our lives. When I worked federal I worked in the Facilities Dept. at the National Gallery of Art and later as I got into technology I worked for ATF. We can rail against government all we like but I see no reason why one can't work for the government. Be that as it may I'm not a "big government" kind of person. I believe government should operate in a smart, efficient and in the most cost effective manner possible. I have my budget line and always stay below my budget.

That won't stop me from pointing out that you're The Man or Mr Charlie.

And I can't help to wonder how many business loans you've had that weren't back by federal funds and or federal loan protection. This may not be the way all loans are structured/protected but banks don't lend out of the kindness of their heart. And what about the millions upon millions with bank accounts that are FDIC insured, are they government dependent. See, using the "I'm a business owner" line doesn't work with me as much.. as I've run a grant writing service dealing with and adhering to its own set of government regulations and a computer repair service and I come from a long line of successful family members who own their own businesses. I'm also very active in my community with other business owners.

Government's tendrils sneak into & foul up many things. Little that it does is positive for me. Perhaps you exemplify one reason they do this, so that they & you may claim that I didn't build my business, someone did it for me. Nonetheless, to start & run a business is a different perspective from an employee, particularly a government employee. If you have some business experience, then that's good for you. But you still think like an awful lot as the government wants, ie, that tax money is already theirs, whatever they don't take is "welfare", & they're entitled to more.

I don't see taxes as "their money"....I see taxes differently than you or others. Since I've been both federal and state government I understand what overall budgets look like as well as budget lines and see what it takes to make government function. Taxes are important for the function of a government. There's the line ("You get what you pay for"), well if you barely want to pay anything then you get what you pay for. But again....it doesn't mean I advocate paying all my hard earned lute to the feds either.

Still, you're in the camp which claims that tax reductions must be "paid for" & are a subsidy.

So your generalization wasn't really meant as a generalization? OK.

If what I see is so common, then it must happen on a very large scale.
Is that generalization? Yes. Is it true of all who are on the dole? No.
But it corrodes work ethic, & alters the culture to encourage sloth.

Then it needs reform. Here in the metropolitan area if you draw unemployment you have to show that you're actively seeking employment in order to receive your benefits. The public assistance has a similar design. If you're receiving PA it won't be for long and case workers (which my sister in-law is one of here in VA.) hound you to find employment, get you training etc. When you get employment your assistance is reduced or cut off.

My co-pay unemployment insurance program is better. But yes, it shouldn't be just a long paid vacation.

Again, this is where effective regulation and oversight comes in. This kind of scenario should not happen.

Back to my co-pay system, if the employee had to pay for the insurance used, it would provide feedback without a lot of regulation & over-sight.

 

[Wirey]

That won't stop me from pointing out that you're The Man or Mr Charlie.

Government's tendrils sneak into & foul up many things. Little that it does is positive for me. Perhaps you exemplify one reason they do this, so that they & you may claim that I didn't build my business, someone did it for me. Nonetheless, to start & run a business is a different perspective from an employee, particularly a government employee. If you have some business experience, then that's good for you. But you still think like an awful lot as the government wants, ie, that tax money is already theirs, whatever they don't take is "welfare", & they're entitled to more.

Still, you're in the camp which claims that tax reductions must be "paid for" & are a subsidy.

If what I see is so common, then it must happen on a very large scale.
Is that generalization? Yes. Is it true of all who are on the dole? No.
But it corrodes work ethic, & alters the culture to encourage sloth.

My co-pay unemployment insurance program is better. But yes, it shouldn't be just a long paid vacation.

Back to my co-pay system, if the employee had to pay for the insurance used, it would provide feedback without a lot of regulation & over-sight.

Rev, I love you like the biological Father I never had. But seriously, when are you going to give up attacking ideologues? Didn't you see Mark and Double Coiler?

 

[Revoltingest]

Rev, I love you like the biological Father I never had. But seriously, when are you going to give up attacking ideologues? Didn't you see Mark and Double Coiler?

I was born to attack!
Yes, why'd Mark leave us?

 

[Levite]

I've been on that side of the workforce as well. I'm a salaried employee. My contract tells me how many hours I work and that I get 30 minutes for lunch. There are times when I work 14 hours a day.....but get no overtime and no comp. time.....even so my situation pales in comparison to much of what you just described.

Yup. It's ridiculous that the US not only is the only First World nation without universal health care and with minimum wages far below living wage levels, but there is no mandated vacation time for salaried employees, no mandated paid or unpaid personal leave, no guaranteed maternity leave-- let alone guaranteed paternity leave, no compensatory benefits for working over the maximum number of hours in the work week, and quite often employers are permitted to demand absurd restrictions on employee schedules, lifestyle, or whatnot.

 

[tytlyf]

Here's an article mentioning how a minimum wage increase for Walmart would actually benefit both sides.

"Walmart caters to workers on a budget and they can expect that if those workers get an increase, they will spend the money in their stores," Catherine Ruetschlin, a policy analyst at Demos, a left-leaning public policy organization, told The Huffington Post. "These low-wage workers are the real job creators in the economy; they’re the people that go out and spend.”

"The consumer doesn't quite have the discretionary income, or they're hesitant to spend what they do have," Charles Holly, Walmart's chief financial officer, told reporters on a call last month, after the company announced an unexpected quarterly drop in sales in U.S. stores.

Walmart Could Actually Benefit From Minimum-Wage Hike

 

[Magic Man]

A report by the Cato Institute study found that all of the Welfare payments available to people in 35 states pay more than minimum wage and in 13 states it pays in excess of $15.00 an hour. Now what would the incentive be to attempt to get off welfare? It appears that the welfare system is in need of an overhaul and make it a system that helps people to get back on their feet instead of living off the backs of those that are working. The lead-in to this article can be found at:
The Work versus Welfare Trade-Off: 2013 | Cato Institute

I'm sure this has already been covered, given the length of the thread now, but:

All of their stats are based on a single parent with two children, and they don't take into account the fact that some benefits decrease when others are added in. They even mention that this is the case, but then disregard it and use the maximum for each benefit possible. Plus, most of the benefits they mention are specifically for certain things like housing and healthcare. It's not like they just get the equivalent of minimum wage to spend however they want. They only get a few hundred dollars a month in cash assistance, if that.

Of course, when you consider we're talking about single parents getting the equivalent of minimum wage, which means they get more than $1,200 a month in total assistance. I'm not sure why it should be a problem that a single parent with two children gets that amount, considering it's either not enough to get by on or just barely so.

 

[maninthewilderness]

If a person has been working for minimum wage for more than 1 year, then that person either has no ambition whatsoever, or that person just might be mentally challenged in some way.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

If a person has been working for minimum wage for more than 1 year, then that person either has no ambition whatsoever, or that person just might be mentally challenged in some way.

My friend is still working at a minimum wage job for 3 years now because he is in college. Is he mentally retarded?

 

[desideraht]

Reading that study makes Me want to apply for welfare and quit My job. Seriously I bust My a** but I could make more money doing nothing.

This proves how broken our economy is.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

Reading that study makes Me want to apply for welfare and quit My job. Seriously I bust My a** but I could make more money doing nothing.

This proves how broken our economy is.

How much do you make right now? If its more than 20k then I would stay right where you are. Welfare isn't as glamerous as the right wing would like for you to believe.

 

[desideraht]

How much do you make right now? If its more than 20k then I would stay right where you are. Welfare isn't as glamerous as the right wing would like for you to believe.

Let's see.... about $500 on average a month so... 6k? Mind you, I work part time, and can't get a second job because I can't afford a vehicle. Going from one job to the other, I'd always be late for the other job. In a good month I'll make $600.

When I get a motorcycle (using student aid, because how else would I afford it?) I'll be able to get 2 jobs and make a more reasonable amount.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

Let's see.... about $500 on average a month so... 6k? Mind you, I work part time, and can't get a second job because I can't afford a vehicle. Going from one job to the other, I'd always be late for the other job. In a good month I'll make $600.

When I get a motorcycle (using student aid, because how else would I afford it?) I'll be able to get 2 jobs and make a more reasonable amount.

Then there is no shame in applying for help. There is a plethura of things you can apply for that isn't just handing you free money. Food stamps for example is the best thing. It helps ensure that people don't starve.

Though normally you can't just "quit" and get a check. Normally you have to be disabled to get something permanent or if you loose your job you can apply for unemployment which is only temporary. To my knowledge there is no way someone can simply say "I don't have a job give me money".

 

[desideraht]

Then there is no shame in applying for help. There is a plethura of things you can apply for that isn't just handing you free money. Food stamps for example is the best thing. It helps ensure that people don't starve.

Though normally you can't just "quit" and get a check. Normally you have to be disabled to get something permanent or if you loose your job you can apply for unemployment which is only temporary. To my knowledge there is no way someone can simply say "I don't have a job give me money".

Honestly I think I qualify for welfare without quitting, lol... I am pretty sure I qualify. And it would be great to have. Would help Me get a vehicle sooner and enable Me getting a better job.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

Honestly I think I clarify for welfare without quitting, lol... I am pretty sure I qualify. And it would be great to have. Would help me get a vehicle sooner and enable me getting a better job.

yup. Welfare's #1 Purpose is to help people when their down to get back on their feet. Your probably would qualify for food stams if nothing else. It never hurts to apply.

 

[desideraht]

yup. Welfare's #1 Purpose is to help people when their down to get back on their feet. Your probably would qualify for food stams if nothing else. It never hurts to apply.

While I don't feel I burden My family, no one is employed but Me, and we're living off of My grandpa's retirement. It makes Me feel terrible, so I kind of want to get food stamps so I can at least pay for some of our groceries... And it p***** Me off that My parents are using "depression" as an excuse not to work. I have tried to kill Myself 3 times in the past 2 months. They have no f****** idea what depression is. And yet, I still have a job.

 

[Magic Man]

Reading that study makes Me want to apply for welfare and quit My job. Seriously I bust My a** but I could make more money doing nothing.

This proves how broken our economy is.

You say you make $600/month working part-time.

1) If you legitimately can't work more than you are now, then there's a good chance you're eligible for some assistance. I'm not even sure how you make it on $600/month now. You'd be better off not quitting your job, though, since then you'd risk getting arrested for fraud.

2) Unless you have kids, you're not getting the kind of assistance in this study. All of their numbers are based on a single parent with two kids.

3) If you were on full assistance, you wouldn't exactly be living the high life. Only a very small portion of the total is cash assistance. Most of the money in the study is housing and healthcare. WIC and TANF make up almost 25% of the benefit totals they use, and those only go to people with kids. Cash assistance for a single person is significantly less than what you make now.

 

[Magic Man]

While I don't feel I burden My family, no one is employed but Me, and we're living off of My grandpa's retirement. It makes Me feel terrible, so I kind of want to get food stamps so I can at least pay for some of our groceries... And it p***** Me off that My parents are using "depression" as an excuse not to work. I have tried to kill Myself 3 times in the past 2 months. They have no f****** idea what depression is. And yet, I still have a job.

It definitely sounds like you should seek some financial assistance (as well as other assistance, maybe). I'm sorry to hear about your troubles. I do want to say that I don't know your parents' situation, but some people who suffer from clinical depression truly aren't able to work.

 

[desideraht]

You say you make $600/month working part-time.

1) If you legitimately can't work more than you are now, then there's a good chance you're eligible for some assistance. I'm not even sure how you make it on $600/month now. You'd be better off not quitting your job, though, since then you'd risk getting arrested for fraud.

2) Unless you have kids, you're not getting the kind of assistance in this study. All of their numbers are based on a single parent with two kids.

3) If you were on full assistance, you wouldn't exactly be living the high life. Only a very small portion of the total is cash assistance. Most of the money in the study is housing and healthcare. WIC and TANF make up almost 25% of the benefit totals they use, and those only go to people with kids. Cash assistance for a single person is significantly less than what you make now.

I assure you it is legitimate. My issue is transportation. I cannot afford a vehicle, and transit often makes what is normally a 20 minute drive take over an hour. Then there's the fact I also have to do a lot of walking as well, so it ends up being closer to 2 hours. Plus I have to have a life and eat and sleep.

I have no children and never intend to have any.

If I was provided with housing and healthcare that would still give me opportunity to pocket cash. A lot of my earnings go straight into medical expenses that I can barely afford.

It definitely sounds like you should seek some financial assistance (as well as other assistance, maybe). I'm sorry to hear about your troubles. I do want to say that I don't know your parents' situation, but some people who suffer from clinical depression truly aren't able to work.

I think it's not so much that. My mother has not worked in over 15 years. She is emotionally immature in that regard and wants to be taken care of.