Well, what about Jesus?

[rocala]

I saw this thread about Jesus by @Tinker Grey and thought it deserved a good response. The fact that it failed may be because of the section in which it was placed.
I have taken the liberty of copying it for posting here as I believe it is worthy of discussion. I hope @Tinker Grey and the mods do not mind.

"Fellow non-believers often say things like "I don't believe he was God; but he was a good and wise teacher.

I'm asking here, what are these good and wise teachings?

I really don't know. I have a saying that I probably cribbed from someone else: The teachings of Jesus that are true are not profound; the teachings that are profound aren't true. The good stuff other people have taught, so in that sense he wasn't "great".

One unique teaching is "Love your enemies". Some may consider that profound, but it is hardly wise. Depending on how you define love, anyway. AND that's another thing, wouldn't a good teacher define his/her terms?"

Consider "forgive people". If by forgive you mean figure out how to get on with your life, sure. If you mean, act as if nothing happened -- no way in hell. (Think of someone raping your child.)

So, anyone care to make a case that Jesus was a good teacher?"

I am not a Christian but like many others inc Thich Nhat Hanh, I am impressed by the wisdom of much that is attributed to him.

Report

 

[Tinker Grey]

Thanks for the effort.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I am not a Christian but ..., I am impressed by the wisdom of much that is attributed to him.

OK. Were you similarly impressed by any of the Prophets found in the Tanakh?

 

[rocala]

OK. Were you similarly impressed by any of the Prophets found in the Tanakh?

Not my area (so far) but I do remember something about "kindness to strangers". It was in a lecture by a Quaker.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Not my area (so far) but I do remember something about "kindness to strangers". It was in a lecture by a Quaker.

Leviticus 19:34.
I respect Quakers.

 

[paarsurrey]

Well, what about Jesus?

(Jesus)Yeshua was Son of Mary/Meriam/Maryam, no doubt about it, please, right?

Regards

 

[Balthazzar]

I saw this thread about Jesus by @Tinker Grey and thought it deserved a good response. The fact that it failed may be because of the section in which it was placed.
I have taken the liberty of copying it for posting here as I believe it is worthy of discussion. I hope @Tinker Grey and the mods do not mind.

"Fellow non-believers often say things like "I don't believe he was God; but he was a good and wise teacher.

I'm asking here, what are these good and wise teachings?

I really don't know. I have a saying that I probably cribbed from someone else: The teachings of Jesus that are true are not profound; the teachings that are profound aren't true. The good stuff other people have taught, so in that sense he wasn't "great".

One unique teaching is "Love your enemies". Some may consider that profound, but it is hardly wise. Depending on how you define love, anyway. AND that's another thing, wouldn't a good teacher define his/her terms?"

Consider "forgive people". If by forgive you mean figure out how to get on with your life, sure. If you mean, act as if nothing happened -- no way in hell. (Think of someone raping your child.)

So, anyone care to make a case that Jesus was a good teacher?"

I am not a Christian but like many others inc Thich Nhat Hanh, I am impressed by the wisdom of much that is attributed to him.

Report

To wish people well is typically natural, but to wish enemies well is a very different type of thing. By the way, that's love. To have good intentions for other people. That's what Jesus taught. Forgiveness is synonymous with love. I can hate you, want to put a bullet in your leg, and still have a want for better relations and that my enemy finds peace as opposed to aggression against me. I am expected to do the same, which is part of self control. I can still want to put a bullet in my enemy's leg due to the many transgressions against me. Peaceful relations begin home front, but are not always possible, so I can hate my enemy and love my enemy all at the same time because I desire peaceful relations. My teacher taught me this. His anger in the synagogue/temple made me know this and his words against others also. As did his peaceful way of non-life-threatening violence. Live by the sword die by the sword rings true to me. Because if I'm ever required to use a sword against my enemy, it would steal my spirit from me.

 

[Betho_br]

I saw this thread about Jesus by @Tinker Grey and thought it deserved a good response. The fact that it failed may be because of the section in which it was placed.
I have taken the liberty of copying it for posting here as I believe it is worthy of discussion. I hope @Tinker Grey and the mods do not mind.

"Fellow non-believers often say things like "I don't believe he was God; but he was a good and wise teacher.

I'm asking here, what are these good and wise teachings?

I really don't know. I have a saying that I probably cribbed from someone else: The teachings of Jesus that are true are not profound; the teachings that are profound aren't true. The good stuff other people have taught, so in that sense he wasn't "great".

One unique teaching is "Love your enemies". Some may consider that profound, but it is hardly wise. Depending on how you define love, anyway. AND that's another thing, wouldn't a good teacher define his/her terms?"

Consider "forgive people". If by forgive you mean figure out how to get on with your life, sure. If you mean, act as if nothing happened -- no way in hell. (Think of someone raping your child.)

So, anyone care to make a case that Jesus was a good teacher?"

I am not a Christian but like many others inc Thich Nhat Hanh, I am impressed by the wisdom of much that is attributed to him.

Report

Lamentations 3:30-31 New Living Translation (NLT)
Let them turn the other cheek to those who strike them and accept the insults of their enemies. For no one is abandoned by the Lord forever.

Sirach 3:18-20 New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition
The greater you are, the more you must humble yourself; so you will find favor in the sight of the Lord. For great is the might of the Lord;

Jesus was a Jew who fulfilled the law and the teachings of the prophets contained in the Hebrew Bible (Matthew 5:17). He founded the Catholic Church of circumcised Jews who adhered to the law in Judea (Acts of the Apostles 9:31; Acts of the Apostles 21:20). Jesus also confirmed that Jews who kept the commandments attained eternal life (Matthew 19:17). Additionally, he was recognized and revered as a Christological Elohim ("like a god...") (Letter from Pliny to Emperor Trajan).

 

[Twilight Hue]

I saw this thread about Jesus by @Tinker Grey and thought it deserved a good response. The fact that it failed may be because of the section in which it was placed.
I have taken the liberty of copying it for posting here as I believe it is worthy of discussion. I hope @Tinker Grey and the mods do not mind.

"Fellow non-believers often say things like "I don't believe he was God; but he was a good and wise teacher.

I'm asking here, what are these good and wise teachings?

I really don't know. I have a saying that I probably cribbed from someone else: The teachings of Jesus that are true are not profound; the teachings that are profound aren't true. The good stuff other people have taught, so in that sense he wasn't "great".

One unique teaching is "Love your enemies". Some may consider that profound, but it is hardly wise. Depending on how you define love, anyway. AND that's another thing, wouldn't a good teacher define his/her terms?"

Consider "forgive people". If by forgive you mean figure out how to get on with your life, sure. If you mean, act as if nothing happened -- no way in hell. (Think of someone raping your child.)

So, anyone care to make a case that Jesus was a good teacher?"

I am not a Christian but like many others inc Thich Nhat Hanh, I am impressed by the wisdom of much that is attributed to him.

Report

Everything in the Bible is really not much different from anything else that people say or do throughout history as far as sage advice goes along with virtuous deeds.

Good teachers and the like are pretty much across the board and it depends on which ones you happen to be attracted to on a personal level.

 

[PureX]

I saw this thread about Jesus by @Tinker Grey and thought it deserved a good response. The fact that it failed may be because of the section in which it was placed.
I have taken the liberty of copying it for posting here as I believe it is worthy of discussion. I hope @Tinker Grey and the mods do not mind.

"Fellow non-believers often say things like "I don't believe he was God; but he was a good and wise teacher.

I'm asking here, what are these good and wise teachings?

I really don't know. I have a saying that I probably cribbed from someone else: The teachings of Jesus that are true are not profound; the teachings that are profound aren't true. The good stuff other people have taught, so in that sense he wasn't "great".

One unique teaching is "Love your enemies". Some may consider that profound, but it is hardly wise. Depending on how you define love, anyway. AND that's another thing, wouldn't a good teacher define his/her terms?"

Consider "forgive people". If by forgive you mean figure out how to get on with your life, sure. If you mean, act as if nothing happened -- no way in hell. (Think of someone raping your child.)

So, anyone care to make a case that Jesus was a good teacher?"

I am not a Christian but like many others inc Thich Nhat Hanh, I am impressed by the wisdom of much that is attributed to him.

Report

As a philosophical Christian, and not a religious one, I think I can help you out with this. As I have no religious "ax to grind", nor any reason to promote or defend theism or atheism in this.

First, Jesus is a character in a religious story. And that character was somewhat of a spiritual 'teacher', in the story. And it is through this literary mechanism that the story then becomes our "teacher", if we are willing to interpret it that way.

I point this out so that we can avoid the usual silly arguments about what "really" happened, and who Jesus "really" was. Because none of that matters, NOW. What matters NOW is the story, and what it is 'teaching' us, today (if we will allow it).

Without going through the story bit by bit, I will jump right to what I think the story is trying to tell us. And why it matters to us even to this day.

The main ideal that the story of Jesus' life, death, and resurrection is revealing to humanity is two-fold: 1., that as we are creations of, and therefor reflections of a great and divine spirit (God), we carry aspects of that great and divine spirit within us. And 2., if we will allow that great and divine spirit within us to guide us (to allow ourselves to become the human embodiment of that spirit) it will heal is and save us from ourselves.

So we are left facing two important questions. 1., what is the nature of this great and divine spirit within us? And 2., what is within ourselves that we need to be saved from? And the quick answers to these questions are these ...

That great and divine spirit within us is the spirit of love, forgiveness, kindness, and generosity. Also, empathy, honesty, and wisdom. And we can identify these as being "divine" by the fact that material existence has no need for any of them. They are TRANSCENDENT phenomena relative to the material realm within which we currently exist.

And the second question: what, within ourselves, do we need these divine traits to save us from? And that answer should be fairly obvious, though it often is not. We need to be saved from our own fear, and ignorance, and selfishness, that drive us to continually act in destructive ways toward ourselves and each other and the world. The "dumb animal man": i.e., mankind absent of that divine spirit within is like a mass of drowning men splashing around in the ocean, each trying to push the man next to him under in a desperate bid to try and keep his own head above the water. A completely pointless and meaningless effort given that all men will succumb to death in the end.

Absent the religiosity, the story of Jesus is basically a revelation and a promise to all of us, regardless of what we think of "God". The revelation is that we all have the power within us to rise above our dumb animal natures. But we have to choose to allow that power to manifest within us, and through us to each other, and then to the world as a whole.

But if we will choose to do that, it WILL manifest within and through us and it will heal us and save us from our dumb animal nature, and together, it will heal as save 'the whole natural realm' from itself, and from us.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Absent the religiosity, the story of Jesus is basically a revelation and a promise to all of us, regardless of what we think of "God". The revelation is that we all have the power within us to rise above our dumb animal natures. But we have to choose to allow that power to manifest within us, and through us to each other, and then to the world as a whole.

Yes .. that about sums it up.
It's up to us whether we want to listen .. or not .. but we have been warned that
we bear the consequences of our choice.