'western' and 'eastern' LHP

[Adramelek]

I agree and the word heterodox embraces the "individual that actively seeks to separate oneself from the herd mentality", not those "actively seeking to break laws".

Furthermore, there is also a difference between breaking societal laws and that which is antithetical to the laws of the natural order. A non-natural being is not anti-nature, but recognizes It is something unique, separate, and distinct. It knows it does exist within the Universe, but is not a spawn of it. Therein is the great mystery of self-consciousness and isolate intelligence, and independence of mind and will.

 

[crossfire]

Hinduism is soil, a form, a context. It isn't the thing itself, merely where the thing was born.

The effort of dispelling dualities through approaching and confronting ones 'nastika' isn't directly married to Hinduism, in fact, it can fit into near any container.

Interesting. Ch'an non-dual means overcoming the personal bias distortion based upon like-dislike. I'm constantly doing things to overcome my irrational aversion dualism--for instance, one reason for my becoming a Luciferian was to overcome my aversion to the cultures that were a product of the Proto-Indo-European culture. (That, and the striking similarities between the Western Luciferian mythos to mythos surrounding Buddha's awakening.)

I assume that you are using 'nastika' in a personal subjective sense, and not the normal usage. (Because Buddhism is classified as 'nastika' due to its rejection of Vedic authority and its rejection of unproductive cultural traditions.) If this is the case, then it would parallel overcoming the like-dislike (dualism) perception bias as taught by Ch'an.

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

Then would you say both are simply different means to the same end?

I would not. 'LHP work is for dispelling dualism, for example mind/body, good/evil, spiritual/carnal(the last two emphasized by lavey), Atheist/theist, us/them, mortal/god, individual/universal, focusses on practical doing rather than teaching or simulating, and tends to use heterodox methods with regards to the prevailing 'nomos'(or culture).

The things you would call 'western' 'LHP tend to focus on building dualism(separation of individual from universe, natural world and unnatural consciousness/intelligence, etc) ,to enshrine guru mentality(cos, ToS, etc), and to stay within the lines of orthodoxy(enshrinement of law, using safe ritual(simulation) rather than directly acting)

They really couldn't be more different in end game OR in practice.

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

I assume that you are using 'nastika' in a personal subjective sense, and not the normal usage. (Because Buddhism is classified as 'nastika' due to its rejection of Vedic authority and its rejection of unproductive cultural traditions.)

Same thing. Rejection of (prevailing) authority and unproductive tradition. Just on a personal scale.

 

[EtuMalku]

I would not. 'LHP work is for dispelling dualism, for example mind/body, good/evil, spiritual/carnal(the last two emphasized by lavey), Atheist/theist, us/them, mortal/god, individual/universal, focusses on practical doing rather than teaching or simulating, and tends to use heterodox methods with regards to the prevailing 'nomos'(or culture).

The things you would call 'western' 'LHP tend to focus on building dualism(separation of individual from universe, natural world and unnatural consciousness/intelligence, etc) ,to enshrine guru mentality(cos, ToS, etc), and to stay within the lines of orthodoxy(enshrinement of law, using safe ritual(simulation) rather than directly acting)

They really couldn't be more different in end game OR in practice.

Let me ask you this . . .
What would you call (R or LHP) a tradition which does not entertain any deities, that states there is a higher Self and a lower self in which we are currently at. Which believes, there is this isolate intelligence / consciousness / psyche / ego / personality etc. that is unique to each individual, where the goal is to escape from the endless limitations / illusions of objective reality and to experience this higher Self more and more, while finding ways to bring 'It' into one's current self?

 

[EtuMalku]

Same thing. Rejection of (prevailing) authority and unproductive tradition. Just on a personal scale.

It's not the same because the West approaches self-deification differently than in the East. The East works through heterodoxy means and is reliant on cultural norms to go against / the West seeks subjective norms of Antinomy, the East is reliant on the idea of deity / the West scoffs at the idea of deity and places one's isolate consciousness at the throne.

 

[crossfire]

It's not the same because the West approaches self-deification differently than in the East. The East works through heterodoxy means and is reliant on cultural norms to go against / the West seeks subjective norms of Antinomy, the East is reliant on the idea of deity / the West scoffs at the idea of deity and places one's isolate consciousness at the throne.

While I do agree with you regarding Heterodoxy vs Antinomianism and theism vs. itheism in regards to Vamachara vs WLHP, respectively, my perspective is that the empty throne is more representative of the Yin (left.) (your mileage may vary)

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

Let me ask you this . . .
What would you call (R or LHP) a tradition which does not entertain any deities, that states there is a higher Self and a lower self in which we are currently at. Which believes, there is this isolate intelligence / consciousness / psyche / ego / personality etc. that is unique to each individual, where the goal is to escape from the endless limitations / illusions of objective reality and to experience this higher Self more and more, while finding ways to bring 'It' into one's current self?

I would call it...very creative.

Why do you want to be put in a box? I guess I would group it with new age mysticism since your asking.

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

It's not the same because the West approaches self-deification differently than in the East. The East works through heterodoxy means and is reliant on cultural norms to go against / the West seeks subjective norms of Antinomy, the East is reliant on the idea of deity / the West scoffs at the idea of deity and places one's isolate consciousness at the throne.

The question vis a vis the quoted text was regarding my usage of the word 'nastika'. Did you quote the wrong text?

 

[crossfire]

The question vis a vis the quoted text was regarding my usage of the word 'nastika'. Did you quote the wrong text?

I think he is going for the need for the duality of astika/nastika in regards to heterodoxy, whereas with antinomianism, astika/nastika is moot. (I could be mistaken, however.)

 

[EtuMalku]

The question vis a vis the quoted text was regarding my usage of the word 'nastika'. Did you quote the wrong text?

It applies to this but I was however commenting on the E/W LHP thing in general

 

[Adramelek]

Bottom line, what is the goal or quest of Eastern LHP?

 

[EtuMalku]

Bottom line, what is the goal or quest of Eastern LHP?

Isn't it basically to become Shiva who is a form of Brahman?

 

[Adramelek]

Isn't it basically to become Shiva who is a form of Brahman?

What I know is that primarily my Initiatory quest is to become more "Set-like" and to perpetually re-manifest that absolute manifestation of my own Truth of Being. The Self-Created god is the creator of his/her own creations. Whether I use "western" or "eastern" LHP methods, frankly I don't give a good gawd damn. Intellectually though it's nice to know the differences, if any.

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

I think he is going for the need for the duality of astika/nastika in regards to heterodoxy, whereas with antinomianism, astika/nastika is moot. (I could be mistaken, however.)

It isn't though. The 'astika' is the very nomos(in their culture/religion) the 'anti' in antinomian applies to.

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

Bottom line, what is the goal or quest of Eastern LHP?

Read the thread.

 

[crossfire]

It isn't though. The 'astika' is the very nomos(in their culture/religion) the 'anti' in antinomian applies to.

There might be some aspects of a culture that are sound and rational, that would be rational to uphold. However, the irrational cultural stuff might deserve to be challenged.

 

[crossfire]

It isn't though. The 'astika' is the very nomos(in their culture/religion) the 'anti' in antinomian applies to.

There might be some aspects of a culture that are sound and rational, that would be rational to uphold. However, the irrational cultural stuff might deserve to be challenged.

Most nomos are taken for granted and not really questioned. I see antinomianism as not taking these things for granted, but examining and questioning them for yourself, bringing these somewhat nebulous unconscious mannerisms fully into consciousness, then deciding for yourself which aspects are helpful and you want to keep, and which aspects are neutral, and which aspects are a hindrance. As always, your mileage may vary.

 

[Adramelek]

Read the thread.

I've read the thread and as far as I can tell the so called "Eastern LHP" is nothing more than RHP methods and goals cloaked in dark imagery. I don't find the term itself credible.

 

[crossfire]

Most nomos are taken for granted and not really questioned. I see antinomianism as not taking these things for granted, but examining and questioning them for yourself, bringing these somewhat nebulous unconscious mannerisms fully into consciousness, then deciding for yourself which aspects are helpful and you want to keep, and which aspects are neutral, and which aspects are a hindrance. As always, your mileage may vary.

One example of my personal antinomian behavior is that of being a feminist. (I like how it fits in with the "woman" aspect associated with the LHP.) I examine the patriarchal social nomos that have been deeply engrained in the Indo-European culture, try to bring them into consciousness in a form that people can understand and identify the particular nomos, and then look to Jungian psychology and other psychological paradigms and try to form rational hypotheses that might be useful in understanding these nomos, and how to fix them if necessary. (You don't have to be irrational or angry to be a feminist, but many assume feminists are irrational when they expose the nomos that have been taken for granted for millennia.)