Western philosophy: Individualistic

[PoetPhilosopher]

Do you, like myself, consider non-Eastern philosophy to be prone to being a bit too individualistic in general, or at least not collectivistic?

If so, what challenges does that pose?

 

[Stevicus]

Do you, like myself, consider non-Eastern philosophy to be prone to being a bit too individualistic in general, or at least not collectivistic?

If so, what challenges does that pose?

On the plus side, individualism favors individual rights and freedoms - even sometimes at the expense of the collective. But hyper-individualism might also lead to greater narcissism and selfishness.

 

[Daemon Sophic]

On the plus side, individualism favors individual rights and freedoms - even sometimes at the expense of the collective. But hyper-individualism might also lead to greater narcissism and selfishness.

What you say, plus excessive individualism usually fails to consider the long-term effects of actions. It thinks about *Me*. *Now!*, rather than how what one is doing now will influence 4 generations hence for his neighbors dependents.

I was told that an old Native American adage stated that tribal war chiefs were men, because the men think intensely about themselves and their children, but the clan chiefs were women, because the women think about 7 generations yet to come.

 

[Vee]

Do you, like myself, consider non-Eastern philosophy to be prone to being a bit too individualistic in general, or at least not collectivistic?

If so, what challenges does that pose?

Everything should be at a balance. We need a certain degree of individualism, but when the line is crossed to "all I care about is my own benefit and nothing/no one else is important" the result is pure selfishness and nothing good comes out of that.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

Everything should be at a balance. We need a certain degree of individualism, but when the line is crossed to "all I care about is my own benefit and nothing/no one else is important" the result is pure selfishness and nothing good comes out of that.

Would you say that some of Western philosophy promotes the view you mentioned?

 

[Vee]

Would you say that some of Western philosophy promotes the view you mentioned?

In the west everything is very orientated towards the "me, myself and I" mentality. People are motivated to believe they are entitled to everything right now, that consequences don't matter as long as they get what they want. The destruction of the planet we depend on so people can consume more stuff is a clear example of what's wrong with that mentality.

 

[Nakosis]

Do you, like myself, consider non-Eastern philosophy to be prone to being a bit too individualistic in general, or at least not collectivistic?

If so, what challenges does that pose?

What would you consider "Western" philosophy?
What is an example of it?

Western philosophy as I see it led to science and individual rights.
Eastern philosophy can certainly be use for individual improvement imo.

However this idea of a collective understanding is not very realistic. That a individual can some how comprehend the whole of humanity as a monolith seems a bit ego-eccentric. I certainly wouldn't assume to know what is best for you. You have your own mind and own way of doing things.

 

[crossfire]

Western culture (as contrasted to philosophy) has plenty of collectivism (sometimes to the point that it overcomes individual minds.)

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

What would you consider "Western" philosophy?

Plato, Socrates, Aristotle, for starters.

However this idea of a collective understanding is not very realistic. That a individual can some how comprehend the whole of humanity as a monolith seems a bit ego-eccentric. I certainly wouldn't assume to know what is best for you. You have your own mind and own way of doing things.

We disagree there. I don't consider a collectivistic understanding to be ego-centric. I consider it altruistic.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

Western culture (as contrasted to philosophy) has plenty of collectivism (sometimes to the point that it overcomes individual minds.)

I disagree. From what I see around me, I see conservative, but a new flavor of it, for miles, and with places of gathering and churches shutting down.

 

[Nakosis]

Plato, Socrates, Aristotle, for starters.

We disagree there. I don't consider a collectivistic understanding to be ego-centric. I consider it altruistic.

What do you think you understand collectively?

 

[Revoltingest]

In the west everything is very orientated towards the "me, myself and I" mentality. People are motivated to believe they are entitled to everything right now, that consequences don't matter as long as they get what they want. The destruction of the planet we depend on so people can consume more stuff is a clear example of what's wrong with that mentality.

I see advantages in "me myself & I".
We used to hear....
"And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you — ask what you can do for your country."
"America....love it or leave it."
"I want you for US Army"

I loathe the hive mind.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

What do you think you understand collectively?

On the surface level, one of the easiest things to see is external pressures and influences on another person. One example of that is peer pressure.

 

[Nakosis]

On the surface level, one of the easiest things to see is external pressures and influences on another person. One example of that is peer pressure.

Sounds like a personal experience. Not that I'm saying lots of folks don't run into that problem but not everyone does. In my personal experience, I never saw it as a problem. My kids, my family my friends I'd advise them, work with them or it was mutually understood that social pressure is noit a thing to have to worry about.

So maybe more of a mental or cultural problem than a universal one. Of course your experience can be completely different.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

Sounds like a personal experience. Not that I'm saying lots of folks don't run into that problem but not everyone does. In my personal experience, I never saw it as a problem. My kids, my family my friends I'd advise them, work with them or it was mutually understood that social pressure is noit a thing to have to worry about.

Okay, here's another example to consider when thinking on the collective: The long-term effects of counseling on another individual (who has trauma).

 

[Nakosis]

Okay, here's another example: The long-term effects of counseling on another individual (who has trauma).

Not really part of my experience so I can't comment.
Still I don't see how this promotes a collective ideology.

My point being your experiences have been different. Your needs different.
That's fine. Just not my experiences, not my needs.

 

[Stevicus]

Sounds like a personal experience. Not that I'm saying lots of folks don't run into that problem but not everyone does. In my personal experience, I never saw it as a problem. My kids, my family my friends I'd advise them, work with them or it was mutually understood that social pressure is noit a thing to have to worry about.

So maybe more of a mental or cultural problem than a universal one. Of course your experience can be completely different.

I agree that a lot of it is cultural, although when it comes to social pressures, there may be competing pressures at work. I recall peer pressure was often brought up whenever there'd be higher level social pressures telling kids not to do drugs. Peer pressure might be cited as a reason kids give in and do drugs, even while their parents, teachers, and society at large are pressuring them not to. Of course, one could always choose different peers, depending on where one is.

 

[crossfire]

Plato, Socrates, Aristotle, for starters.




We disagree there. I don't consider a collectivistic understanding to be ego-centric. I consider it altruistic.

Tribalism is a form of collectivism. It's not always altruistic, especially where outsiders are concerned.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

Tribalism is a form of collectivism. It's not always altruistic, especially where outsiders are concerned.

True. Tribalism is a form of collectivism. Although, not all forms of collectivism are tribalism.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Do you, like myself, consider non-Eastern philosophy to be prone to being a bit too individualistic in general, or at least not collectivistic?

If so, what challenges does that pose?

How do we delineate "Western" and "Eastern" philosophy? Ayn Rand, Adam Smith, Engels, and Marx were all from Western countries, but their views on individualism and collectivism are almost diametrically opposed.