Whales have hip bones.

[R34L1TY]

[youtube]8Fo9KW2hQus[/youtube]
WHALE EVOLUTION - PROOF OR DECEPTION? - YouTube

 

[Skwim]

[youtube]8Fo9KW2hQus[/youtube]
WHALE EVOLUTION - PROOF OR DECEPTION? - YouTube

I agree, that's a real

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Explain Creationists.

Explain creationists? People who follow the concept of creationism?


Sorry I had to be a smart guy

 

[R34L1TY]

Explain creationists? People who follow the concept of creationism?


Sorry I had to be a smart guy

cre·a·tion·ism/krēˈāSHəˌnizəm/
Noun:
The belief that the universe and living organisms originate from divine creation, as in the biblical account, rather than by processes...

 

[uberrobonomicon4000]

Explain Creationists.

I'm not a creationist, but I will tell you what a creationist would say: "Congratulations, you have discovered the similarity between whales and a billion other mammals that roam this planet."

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Can you please list all of the laws that you obviously believe God has to follow?

I'm not aware of the "has to have hips in order to have hip bones" law.

You're not a big fan of logic, are you?

 

[Super Universe]

I took a logic class in college. Seems to me you've incorrectly applied the word.

 

[idav]

Explain Creationists.

They have hip bones for the legs they will have in the future. God always thinking ahead.

 

[Shermana]

They have hip bones for the legs they will have in the future. God always thinking ahead.

No need, they're already well used to make sweet whale love with the whale-esses, without such a hinge it would be kinda impossible. The latest hit whale love song translated to human goes something like this: "Hey baby, you make me wanna gyrate my hip bones" followed by "Let me latch onto you with my pelvis!" But a new up and coming single goes "It's nice having my reproductive muscles attached to these so-called vestigal remains!"

 

[ImmortalFlame]

No need, they're already well used to make sweet whale love with the whale-esses, without such a hinge it would be kinda impossible. The latest hit whale love song translated to human goes something like this: "Hey baby, you make me wanna gyrate my hip bones" followed by "Let me latch onto you with my pelvis!" But a new up and coming single goes "It's nice having my reproductive muscles attached to these so-called vestigal remains!"

Sources? Which species of whales use their hip bones?

 

[Shermana]

Sources? Which species of whales use their hip bones?

There is indeed a surprising (or unsurprising) utter paucity of available research related to Whale reproduction in any regard, however it's been clearly said by Gingerich (et al) that Basilosaurus used them for such, so at what point did these bones change in function from the supposed grand-daddy Basilosaurus? Start with that.

Discovery Channel :: Walking With Prehistoric Beasts: Q&A

Basilosaurus has tiny hind legs. Dr. Philip Gingerich, who described the legs, thinks the legs were not vestigial (left over structures from their ancestors, but not used) because the joint surfaces on the bones at the knee show that the could be held in two positions, either tucked up against the body, or extended outward. The only reason he could think they would ever extend their legs out might be to help guide the animals during mating. So based on that and the way modern whales mate, the sequence was reconstructed as you saw. It's a good idea, but we really don't know for sure.

"Based on that and the way that modern whales mate". Nuff said.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

There is indeed a surprising (or unsurprising) utter paucity of available research related to Whale reproduction in any regard,

So how can you say that they use their hip bones?

however it's been clearly said by Gingerich (et al) that Basilosaurus used them for such, so at what point did these bones change in function from the supposed grand-daddy Basilosaurus? Start with that.

Discovery Channel :: Walking With Prehistoric Beasts: Q&A

"Based on that and the way that modern whales mate". Nuff said.

That's it? Seriously, that's your evidence? Despite the fact that this article doesn't contain any information whatsoever about whale mating or even that whale mating is in any way similar to the Basilosaurus?

Yeah, I'm going to need a bit more than that.

 

[Shermana]

So how can you say that they use their hip bones?


That's it? Seriously, that's your evidence? Despite the fact that this article doesn't contain any information whatsoever about whale mating or even that whale mating is in any way similar to the Basilosaurus?

Yeah, I'm going to need a bit more than that.

I said start with that, not just whine that this is the only example. I can just as easily ask you to disprove what he said. Can you? If it applied to Basilosaurus, and it implies that modern whales mate similarly, then you can draw a line. If that evidence isn't good enough for you, then you can start at least by explaining why this opinion would be incorrect. As I said, there is practically NO research on the actual physics of Whale mating.

With that said, can you point to any actual studies on the physics of Whale reproduction in the first place? If not, we gotta work with what we got, and many times scientific claims are based on the SLIMMEST of research, such as with Blood Transfusions. So please start with the issue of Basilosaurus and then we can move on from there.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

I said start with that, not just whine that this is the only example. I can just as easily ask you to disprove what he said.

Disprove what he said? He hasn't said anything except that they reached their conclusion on how Basilosaurus mates by, in part, examining how whales mate today. That says absolutely nothing about how whales mate, whether it's similar, dissimilar, which breeds or species of whales do and don't, or anything specific about the use of hipbones whatsoever. He has said absolutely nothing about how whales mate - there is nothing to disprove.

Can you? If it applied to Basilosaurus, and it implies that modern whales mate similarly, then you can draw a line.

It says no such thing. All he says is that they reached their conclusion by, among other things, studying how whales mate today. That doesn't say anything about how whales mate.

If that evidence isn't good enough for you, then you can start at least by explaining why this opinion would be incorrect. As I said, there is practically NO research on the actual physics of Whale mating.

So then please tell me how you reached your conclusion that whales use their hip bones in the process. Don't tell me this one person, who says absolutely nothing on the subject, is your one source.

With that said, can you point to any actual studies on the physics of Whale reproduction in the first place?

Why should I have to? You're the one who claimed whales use their hip bones during mating, so the burden is on you.

If not, we gotta work with what we got, and many times scientific claims are based on the SLIMMEST of research, such as with Blood Transfusions. So please start with the issue of Basilosaurus and then we can move on from there.

What issue? It's completely irrelevant.

 

[painted wolf]

Shermana.... It's important to remember that vestigial doesn't mean "useless" it means "reduced in function".

The hip bones of whales have clearly undergone a reduction in function over time, thus they are vestigial.

What is really cool is that there are plenty of other vestigial and odd features of whales other than their hips.

They have vestigial ears that don't connect up to their brains and may only be 1mm wide. They also have muscles for moving non-existent external ears.

They have ruminant stomachs like cows do... yet they don't need it to eat and most of the stomach has shrunken and in some species they have fused chambers.

Their diaphragms are vestigial and now have next to no muscle structure... since whales have developed the use of their ribs to breath they didn't need the diaphragm much anymore. Ribs are much more important in whale breathing for species that dive deep.

It gets even more weird when you add embryology. For example: Baby baleen whales develop teeth before shedding them and growing baleen. Which is totally cool but totally silly.

wa:do

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

It's so whales can use belts to hold up their pants or skirts.
(Since they don't have shoulders, they can't use suspenders.)

If they are English or welsh whales they can hold their sock or stockings up with suspenders or even garters.
To hold skirts or trousers you need belts or braces.
Though in the USA you stuff those in your mouth.

All very strange....

 

[dantech]

What about the half life of Uranium being 4 billion years? Uh, so. On what page does the bible say the earth is only 6,000 years old?

I am really trying to understand how this is relevant...
What about the half life of Uranium being 4 billion years... What does that have to do with the age of the earth according to the bible?

When God created the earth, according to the bible, it wasn't written that he planted trees. It's written that he created trees that were already baring fruit. When he created Adam, he didn't create a new born, he created a 20 year old man. God is very capable of creating an aged earth, one that would contain things that could be billions of years old.

The issue with your argument is that you incorporate the fact the God could create a universe, but for some reason, you reject the fact that a God capable of creating a universe is very well capable of doing anything else, whatever it may be - In this case, creating an atom that is billions of years old...

 

[painted wolf]

I am really trying to understand how this is relevant...
What about the half life of Uranium being 4 billion years... What does that have to do with the age of the earth according to the bible?

When God created the earth, according to the bible, it wasn't written that he planted trees. It's written that he created trees that were already baring fruit. When he created Adam, he didn't create a new born, he created a 20 year old man. God is very capable of creating an aged earth, one that would contain things that could be billions of years old.

The issue with your argument is that you incorporate the fact the God could create a universe, but for some reason, you reject the fact that a God capable of creating a universe is very well capable of doing anything else, whatever it may be - In this case, creating an atom that is billions of years old...

What is really odd about that point, is that not all Uranium has such a long half life... U 232 has a half life of only 68.9 years.

Like most elements Uranium has several isotopes with different half-lives.

wa:do

 

[Me Myself]

Can you please list all of the laws that you obviously believe God has to follow?

I'm not aware of the "has to have hips in order to have hip bones" law.

well, for now let´s go with this one:

God wouldn´t create completely useless thing on creatures. If he did, it could be some kind of "artistic" license, but it kinda defeats the point when it is the same as in every creature

 

[somethingNiftyhere]

Explain Creationists.

Some snakes have small hip bones as well. Non-functional as with Whales of course.

As for the explanation for the whales (and some snakes) perhaps it would be in keeping with what the young Earther creationists say about Dinosaur fossils.
They're buried in the ground (hip bones appear on Whales and some snakes) because of Satan. Who is doing all that so as to lead the faithful from God.

Satan must be responsible too for those same young earther's IQ points for the self same reason. :ignore: