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What’s your main reason for being a theist or an atheist?

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
I said: You don't read the Bible. You don't study the Bible. You don't care about the Bible.
Good. Then what is your opinion of the resurrection stories in the gospels? Do you agree 100% with Abdul Baha's answer and 100% disagree with early Christians believing the resurrection to be literal?
As I already told you in another post, I do not agree that Abdu'l-Baha's explanation is the only explanation.

I also told you that I 100% disagree with Christians who believe the resurrection to be literal, because physical bodies do not come back to life after 3 days.

What could have happened is that Jesus made an appearance to the disciples in a spiritual body which appeared to be real in order to restore their hope and faith. Either that or the resurrection stories were completely fabricated for some ulterior motive.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Did you not just claim that surrendering to Baha'u'llah's judgement and authority is necessary in the Bahai Faith?
Yes, we claim that, but I do not view that as a weakness, but rather as a strength. :)
It looks like a weakness to outsiders because that cannot surrender their ego.
 

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
I have no problem with your first wish but have problems with your two requirements. IMHO, they are a hindrance to the first. So, which one is closer to your heart? A loving human race or worship of Allah, the one God

They are both connected, they are fruition of enlightenment.

Regards Tony
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Yes, we claim that, but I do not view that as a weakness, but rather as a strength. :)
I assumed as much, since you are a Bahai and emphasize that trait.

It looks like a weakness to outsiders because that cannot surrender their ego.

Oh, of course I will not surrender my ego to the authority and discernment of Baha'u'llah.

Why would I surrender anything at all to him?
 
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Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Oh, of course I will not surrender my ego to the authority and discernment of Baha'u'llah.

Why would I surrender anything at all to him?
You wouldn't, not unless you believed as Baha'is do, that He was a Manifestation of God.
It all hinges on that.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
You wouldn't, not unless you believed as Baha'is do, that He was a Manifestation of God.
It all hinges on that.
Indeed.

Which brings me back to my previous question: do you realize that it is a weakness of the doctrine by the perspective of an outsider?
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Trailblazer said: You wouldn't, not unless you believed as Baha'is do, that He was a Manifestation of God.
It all hinges on that.


Indeed.

Which brings me back to my previous question: do you realize that it is a weakness of the doctrine by the perspective of an outsider?
I do not know what you mean, weakness of the doctrine, what doctrine? o_O
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
They are both connected, they are fruition of enlightenment.
Those of other religions do not find any sane reason to surrender to Bahais or Bahaullah. He has brought in just one more religion to an already crowded field and with it additional conflict. He, his son Abdul Baha, and grandson Shoghi Effendi were just a set of people blowing the family trumpet.
 

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
[
Those of other religions do not find any sane reason to surrender to Bahais or Bahaullah. He has brought in just one more religion to an already crowded field and with it additional conflict. He, his son Abdul Baha, and grandson Shoghi Effendi were just a set of people blowing the family trumpet.

You choose you path in life. I wish you all the best and much happiness.

Regards Tony
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
I asked Tony… "(W)hat do the Scriptures of the different religions say about their God or Gods? Are they talking about and believing in the same being?" Then you answered with
Yes, they are all talking about the one true God.
Yes? All the different religions, with all their different beliefs and without any references to the Scriptures of the different religions you say "yes"? Read again what I asked... What do the Scriptures of the different religions say.

Never mind. No matter what the Scriptures say, your truth is what Baha'u'llah says. And we all know what that is "Yes, they are all talking about one God." Baha'is then make all references that disagree with their view disappear by using the magic eraser of... They added things into their Scripture... They misinterpreted their Scripture.... The Scriptures were taken literally when they should have been taken symbolically.
 

Ouroboros

Coincidentia oppositorum
I believe in God because:
1/ It seems rational
2/ It resonates with my experience in life
3/ It works practically.
I have the same list for being a non-believer, or part-believer, or whatever. :)

I don't believe in the Judeo-Christian-Muslim God. I used to, but not anymore, and it's because it failed any rationality test for me, and my experience contradicted his existence, and at this point in my life, it works practically on all levels for me. So there we have it. We both have different view based on the same arguments.

Granted, atheism is probably not the best label for me. I don't even believe the "theist vs atheist" dichotomy to be accurate. There are many beliefs and unbeliefs on so many levels, so it's like saying that green potatoes are the opposite of lack of electricity.

An atheist could use exactly the same argument of course. I tried atheism for about a year but it was the worst year of my life. Some atheists would probably say the same about their experiences of theism. So I can see how atheism makes sense. It just doesn’t work for me.
I never tried to be anything. I never tried to be a Christian for 30 years, I just was. It was my belief. Then things happened, thoughts were reasoned, and I became an atheist for about 10 years. Then after more thoughts, I ended up with something that's kind'a in-between all things defined. Pantheism is the closest. But I never tried to be anything of any of them, and that's probably why you failed trying to be an atheist. You could just as well try to be an elephant and success as much. We are what we are. Belief comes from within.

Why do you believe what you do? We’re in the religious debates section so feel free to debate. I might too...who knows!? I don’t really like atheist verses theist debates. This could be s first. Let’s see how we go.
Like I said above, belief comes from within. Belief is an expression of what and who you are, it's not a coat you put on. Those who put on coats to be something they're not, will end up failing.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
I do not know what you mean, weakness of the doctrine, what doctrine? o_O
Bahai doctrine. By relying on both the existence of a version of Abraham's God and on Baha'u'llah's ability to be, apparently, infallible and wise, it puts itself on very shaky ground indeed.
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
As I already told you in another post, I do not agree that Abdu'l-Baha's explanation is the only explanation.

I also told you that I 100% disagree with Christians who believe the resurrection to be literal, because physical bodies do not come back to life after 3 days.

What could have happened is that Jesus made an appearance to the disciples in a spiritual body which appeared to be real in order to restore their hope and faith. Either that or the resurrection stories were completely fabricated for some ulterior motive.
So how again do you disagree with Atheists? All religions have their myths and legends. If the stories about the messengers and prophets are filled with unbelievable supernatural events, and we doubt the validity of those things, then why do we believe the stories about the invisible, supernatural, all-powerful being that supposedly sent them? Why can't it all be religious myth, meant to give people rules and morals to live by... that were very specific to those people, in that culture, at that time and place? Other people and cultures did have many gods and goddesses. They had rituals and sacrifices they were commanded to perform. Any of that real? Were those gods and goddesses real? I don't think so. I think the religious leaders of those people probably made up the myths and legends. But, they treated those stories as real. They made those gods and goddesses real, because it served a purpose in that society.

So what about the myths and legends of Judaism? Of Christianity? Of any other religion? The myths and legends are true? Even Baha'is say "no". At best Baha'is say they were symbolic and not actual historical events. Or, they were made up. They are not true. Yet, God is true? An invisible, unknowable God that you better obey? That could so easily be completely made up. And the only proof we have is the messengers, the ones whose stories are filled with false, or "symbolic", myth and legend, are our only proof that this God is real?

And now about Abdul Baha... isn't his word the same as "God's" word for Baha'is? His explanation makes no sense. The gospel stories are written and presented and believed by the Christians to be literally true. They made it clear that Jesus was not a ghost or a vision. So for Christians I can absolutely agree with them that the gospels say Jesus was resurrected from the dead. But, I can also see why those stories could be and should be questioned.

I agree with Atheists and Baha'is... Things like that are not physically possible. Not a problem for Christians, they "believe". They take it "faith". Sure, anything is possible for their God... if that God is real. But, those things aren't possible to the Baha'i God? The Baha'i God "inspired" the writers to make up a symbolic story of Jesus coming back to life? A story that God knew would be taken literally? A story that he had the writers write down as if literally true? What was this God thinking?

Or, maybe that no where to be found God wasn't thinking. It was just the people writing myth and legend to make their prophet a virtual God, a Son of the Great invisible God in the sky, someone bigger and more powerful than all the Greek and Roman Gods. Someone that if not believed will punish the wicked with torture and fire? Since Baha'is don't believe in hell, although one Baha'i said you do, I would say that this story about casting people into hell could very well be a made up story to scare people into obeying. Which means, it's not real. The real God is not going to do that. Someone put those words into their made up Gods mouth as a deterrent.

Anyway, Baha'is are so close to having a religion that will change the world for the better, please don't screw it up.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Bahai doctrine. By relying on both the existence of a version of Abraham's God and on Baha'u'llah's ability to be, apparently, infallible and wise, it puts itself on very shaky ground indeed.
The ground stops shaking after one recognizes Baha'u'llah as a Manifestation of God...
That is about all I can say.
 
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