What’s your main reason for being a theist or an atheist?

[lukethethird]

Do you think the Biblical story of Abraham is historically accurate?

Yes, I get all my history from The Bible.

 

[Trailblazer]

Never mind. No matter what the Scriptures say, your truth is what Baha'u'llah says.

That is true. I believe that whatever Baha'u'lalh wrote is the Infallible Truth.

 

[Trailblazer]

Anyway, Baha'is are so close to having a religion that will change the world for the better, please don't screw it up.

I do not think I have the power to screw it up myself.
Baha'is will make some mistakes but I do not think that the Cause of God can be screwed up.

 

[CG Didymus]

I do not think I have the power to screw it up myself.
Baha'is will make some mistakes but I do not think that the Cause of God can be screwed up.

Religions don't have a very good track record. And on the other question about Abraham... you don't know and don't care, yet you believe in the God of Abraham, and that he was a "manifestation"?

And, you did say you studied the Bible in one post awhile back didn't you? Well, just in case you didn't read that part of the Bible. Abraham took his son Isaac to be sacrificed. Now why would he do this? God told him to. Nice story, but really... anybody these stories that hear the voice of God telling them to kill someone are put away somewhere. So I'd agree with Baha'is if they say this story is not literal but only symbolic.

But that creates a couple of problems. The story of Abraham isn't real, it's symbolic. So Baha'is expect people to believe in someone that we know nothing about... and to believe in his God? Second problem, Baha'is say the Biblical story is wrong. Abraham, supposedly, took Ishmael to be sacrificed. So what's real? Religious stories are tough things to believe literally, yet the God talked about in those stories is real?

 

[Trailblazer]

Religions don't have a very good track record. And on the other question about Abraham... you don't know and don't care, yet you believe in the God of Abraham, and that he was a "manifestation"?

And, you did say you studied the Bible in one post awhile back didn't you? Well, just in case you didn't read that part of the Bible. Abraham took his son Isaac to be sacrificed. Now why would he do this? God told him to. Nice story, but really... anybody these stories that hear the voice of God telling them to kill someone are put away somewhere. So I'd agree with Baha'is if they say this story is not literal but only symbolic.

But that creates a couple of problems. The story of Abraham isn't real, it's symbolic. So Baha'is expect people to believe in someone that we know nothing about... and to believe in his God? Second problem, Baha'is say the Biblical story is wrong. Abraham, supposedly, took Ishmael to be sacrificed. So what's real? Religious stories are tough things to believe literally, yet the God talked about in those stories is real?

Baha'u'llah talks about Abraham in The Kitab-i-Iqan and refers to Abraham as a Prophet. That is all I am willing to believe is true. I do not know anything else because I was never a Jew or a Christian and I was never interested in religion before I was a Baha'i or even after. I would make a good atheist if it was not for believing in Baha'u'llah.

To me, the Baha'i Faith has always been self-evident, but that is probably because my vision was not distorted by any other religions, particularly Christianity.

No, I never studied the Bible. What I know of the Bible is from looking verses up on the internet which is usually precipitated by my posting to Christians, usually about the Comforter or other prophecies referring to the return of Christ.

Baha'is do not "expect" anyone to believe anything. Everyone has to do their own research and come to their own conclusions about the Bible and the Baha'i Faith, IF they are interested.

 

[paarsurrey]

What are those unprogressive teachings and dealings?

Where did you get all this information?
I do not know the history of the Baha'i Faith that well. Maybe you should check this out with Adrian or Tony.

Anybody could add any information as to why Gawhar and her daughter Foroughiyya Khanum were both left behind in Baghdad and as to how did Bahaullah look after their financial needs there. How did she join Bahaullah later and what treatment was done by Bahaullah, Abdul Baha and Shoghi Effendi to both of them? Were they, Gawhar and her daughter Foroughiyya Khanum, given share in the heirship of Bahaullah and whether it was fairly given along-with other heirs.

Regards

 

[Aupmanyav]

I have no idea and I don't care because it has no relevancy to life on earth today.

In what way Bahaullah is relevant today?

 

[paarsurrey]

Baha'u'llah talks about Abraham in The Kitab-i-Iqan and refers to Abraham as a Prophet. That is all I am willing to believe is true. I do not know anything else because I was never a Jew or a Christian and I was never interested in religion before I was a Baha'i or even after. I would make a good atheist if it was not for believing in Baha'u'llah.

To me, the Baha'i Faith has always been self-evident, but that is probably because my vision was not distorted by any other religions, particularly Christianity.

No, I never studied the Bible. What I know of the Bible is from looking verses up on the internet which is usually precipitated by my posting to Christians, usually about the Comforter or other prophecies referring to the return of Christ.

Baha'is do not "expect" anyone to believe anything. Everyone has to do their own research and come to their own conclusions about the Bible and the Baha'i Faith, IF they are interested.

And what was one's religion when one became Bahai, please?

Regards

 

[Trailblazer]

In what way Bahaullah is relevant today?

His message of the unity of mankind and world peace is relevant today.

 

[Trailblazer]

Anybody could add any information as to why....

That was my point. Anyone can SAY anything about anyone, but that does not make it the truth.

Gawhar and her daughter Foroughiyya Khanum were both left behind in Baghdad and as to how did Bahaullah look after their financial needs there. How did she join Bahaullah later and what treatment was done by Bahaullah, Abdul Baha and Shoghi Effendi to both of them? Were they, Gawhar and her daughter Foroughiyya Khanum, given share in the heirship of Bahaullah and whether it was fairly given along-with other heirs.

As I said, I do not know the history of the Baha'i Faith that well. Maybe you should check this out with Adrian or Tony.
I do not have the time to look things up right now.

 

[Trailblazer]

And what was one's religion when one became Bahai, please?

Regards

I was not brought up in a religious home, so I had no religion before I became a Baha'i. I never even thought about God as a child. Then I discovered the Baha'i Faith during my first year of college.

I believed in the Baha'i Faith because I recognized the teachings as true and I thought that progressive revelation made logical sense. I believed that Baha'u'llah was a Manifestation of God but I did not understand what that meant since I knew nothing about God back then.

I never questioned that Baha'u'llah was a Manifestation of God or that the Baha'i Faith was the truth from God because of all the evidence, but I did not care much about God until about seven years ago. In fact, I was angry at God for about 10 years before that and I hated God and thought He was cruel; but because of Baha'u'llah I could never disbelieve in God so I had to try to make peace with God.

Making peace with God has been a work in progress because I still have issues with God such as why He created a world where so many people would suffer and others suffer hardly at all. It does not seem fair, but I understand there is a reason and I certainly do not know everything, and I will know more after I die and go to the spiritual world. Meanwhile, I just try to learn more about God and grow spiritually and help others who want to know about God.

 

[Aupmanyav]

His message of the unity of mankind and world peace is relevant today.

Is that a unique message? Every one has said that.

.. because of all the evidence, ..

That must be your attempt to make a joke - all evidence! What evidence?

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Bob you walk out in your garden and see a snake, you kill it, throw it to the weeds, then a hawk snatches it up and flies off with it out of sight.

You saw it, killed it, saw the hawk fly away with it. That is all evidence to you.

Now is it "evident to you" that you killed a snake or do you now just have faith you did?

Is there as much evidence though? My dogs and I were watching a bunny eat grass and clover in our front yard. A hawk came and took it away. There was blood and tufts of fur left in the yard. Where is the evidence in religion?

It is not a question of earning, it is about correct targeting. Had that person worshiped only one God, the God would had to come. There are other stories when Lord Vishnu ran barefoot without waiting to put his shoes on, as a crocodile had latched on to the leg of one of his devotees, the King of Elephants. The story is known as 'Gajendra Moksha' (the deliverance of the King of elephants).

Yahweh would watch the elephant get eaten and then declare for centuries that the elephant deserved it because there can only be one king.

Hinduism goes back possibly 10,000 years so there's much we don't know.

I would think Hindus would.

But the non-believers have never given any even "one" positive reason for non-existence of G-d

While I'm a believer in the divine, it's quite evident that Yahweh as a character does not conform to reality.

 

[paarsurrey]

I was not brought up in a religious home, so I had no religion before I became a Baha'i. I never even thought about God as a child. Then I discovered the Baha'i Faith during my first year of college.

I believed in the Baha'i Faith because I recognized the teachings as true and I thought that progressive revelation made logical sense. I believed that Baha'u'llah was a Manifestation of God but I did not understand what that meant since I knew nothing about God back then.

I never questioned that Baha'u'llah was a Manifestation of God or that the Baha'i Faith was the truth from God because of all the evidence, but I did not care much about God until about seven years ago. In fact, I was angry at God for about 10 years before that and I hated God and thought He was cruel; but because of Baha'u'llah I could never disbelieve in God so I had to try to make peace with God.

Making peace with God has been a work in progress because I still have issues with God such as why He created a world where so many people would suffer and others suffer hardly at all. It does not seem fair, but I understand there is a reason and I certainly do not know everything, and I will know more after I die and go to the spiritual world. Meanwhile, I just try to learn more about God and grow spiritually and help others who want to know about God.

"Making peace with God has been a work in progress"

"Work in progress" as per lexicon/Google means:

work in prog·ress
noun

• an unfinished project that is still being added to or developed.

"the book itself is still a work in progress"

• (in accounting) the total value of the materials and labor for unfinished projects.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Wor...ss&aqs=chrome..69i57&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

So, what was exactly in one's mind or understanding when one said about Bahaism
"It is called progressive revelation" among others on Islam. One's post #872 is referred.
I took it as an intrusion with my religion and an uncalled for remarks about my religion and hence I had to write my post #900 .

Now I realize that one has no true knowledge of Quran/Islam/Muhammad. Right, please?

Regards

 

[Goodman John]

THIS IS WHY WIKI IS NEVER VALID IN UNIVERSITY CLASSES AS A REFERENCE.

There are much better references available, you know.

 

[Trailblazer]

Is that a unique message? Every one has said that.

Yes, everyone has been saying it since Baha'u'llah said it, but they were not saying it before He said it in the 19th century.

That must be your attempt to make a joke - all evidence! What evidence?

There is tons of evidence that indicates that Baha'u'llah was a Messenger of God, but do you really want to go there?

 

[Trailblazer]

"Making peace with God has been a work in progress"

"Work in progress" as per lexicon/Google means:

work in prog·ress
noun

• an unfinished project that is still being added to or developed.

Yes, that is what I am, unfinished and in need of further development.

I took it as an intrusion with my religion and an uncalled for remarks about my religion and hence I had to write my post #900 .

Now I realize that one has no true knowledge of Quran/Islam/Muhammad. Right, please?

I believe that Baha'u'llah had true knowledge of Quran/Islam/Muhammad.

 

[Dawnofhope]

I have the same list for being a non-believer, or part-believer, or whatever.

That appears to be a useful and important starting point.

I don't believe in the Judeo-Christian-Muslim God. I used to, but not anymore, and it's because it failed any rationality test for me, and my experience contradicted his existence, and at this point in my life, it works practically on all levels for me. So there we have it. We both have different view based on the same arguments.

Don't you love irony?

Granted, atheism is probably not the best label for me. I don't even believe the "theist vs atheist" dichotomy to be accurate. There are many beliefs and unbeliefs on so many levels, so it's like saying that green potatoes are the opposite of lack of electricity.

Labels can be useful but have limitations. I'm comfortable with the words Baha'i, Christian, theist, and monotheist. I find it easy to explain what my beliefs are and are not if asked.

I never tried to be anything. I never tried to be a Christian for 30 years, I just was. It was my belief. Then things happened, thoughts were reasoned, and I became an atheist for about 10 years. Then after more thoughts, I ended up with something that's kind'a in-between all things defined. Pantheism is the closest. But I never tried to be anything of any of them, and that's probably why you failed trying to be an atheist. You could just as well try to be an elephant and success as much. We are what we are. Belief comes from within.

I can understand just being a Christian, but for me making concerted efforts to be a good Christian each day would be non-negotiable. When I was an atheist it meant living a good live while assuming the non-existence of God. Its not a value judgment between us though. Whilst being quite detached and easy going I'm definitely driven and motivated. I see pantheism as being closer to atheism than theism but it depends on definitions of God or gods.

Like I said above, belief comes from within. Belief is an expression of what and who you are, it's not a coat you put on. Those who put on coats to be something they're not, will end up failing.

For me belief and expression are inseparable. I've been a Baha'i for nearly 30 years.

Thanks for your post.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Yes, everyone has been saying it since Baha'u'llah said it, but they were not saying it before He said it in the 19th century.

What an absolutely ill-informed thing to say! We had Mahavira (the apostle of non-violence) and Buddha around 2,600 years ago. Mahavira would take the next step only after seeing that there is no small creature where he was stepping, he kept a soft cotton broom with him to push away that creature. Both did not care about existence of any God. Jain monks always keep a broom with them. They also keep their mouths covered by a cloth piece for two reasons, 1. They may not harm any creature that may inadvertently fall in their mouth, and 2. to restrain themselves from speaking any hard word for anyone. I term Mahavira as 'Che Guevara' of non-violence. He was an absolute radical.

There is tons of evidence that indicates that Baha'u'llah was a Messenger of God, but do you really want to go there?

You have not advanced even a shred of evidence even after people have asked for it a thousand times.

 

[Trailblazer]

What an absolutely ill-informed thing to say! We had Mahavira (the apostle of non-violence) and Buddha around 2,600 years ago. Mahavira would take the next step only after seeing that there is no small creature where he was stepping, he kept a soft cotton broom with him to push away that creature. Both did not care about existence of any God. Jain monks always keep a broom with them. They also keep their mouths covered by a cloth piece for two reasons, 1. They may not harm any creature that may inadvertently fall in their mouth, and 2. to restrain themselves from speaking any hard word for anyone. I term Mahavira as 'Che Guevara' of non-violence. He was an absolute radical.

Were they talking about the unity of mankind 2,600 years ago?
How would that have even been possible since the whole world had not even been discovered nor was it connected by communications?

You have not advanced even a shred of evidence even after people have asked for it a thousand times.

I posted the evidence about a thousand times and it fell on deaf ears.