What algorithm does God use to assign souls to newborns?

[robo]

Hello All:

Assume for sake of argument, Shia Islam is the only true religion, and practitioners of all other sects/religions are going to burn in eternal hellfire because we did not worship God in the right fashion.

Now, I am not Shiite. Assume my mother conceived at the exact same time as a Shiite mother. I am assuming that Allah had two souls that were exactly identical to each other in all respects just prior to the moment of conception and souls are assigned at the moment of conception. Why did my soul take birth in the non-Shiite family, while the other soul took birth in the Shiite family? Both our souls were just the same, but it seems the soul assigned to the Shiite family has a much better chance of enjoying heaven, while my soul has a much better chance of burning in eternal hellfire. This seems unfair to souls in non-Shiite families. The playing field is tilted against my soul from the get go. :-(

So, is the assignment of soul to families random?

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Note to mods: I am still unable to access RF directly as my IP continues to be banned. I had made a request via the feedback form. Do look into the matter as time permits. Thx.
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[Breathe]

I can't see your thread in Site Feedback?

 

[robo]

Hi Odion:

when I type www.religiousforums.com in my browser I get the following message:

"Sorry. The administrator has banned your IP address. To contact the administrator click here"

I clicked there and sent my message. Is that not the way to go?

 

[Breathe]

Nope, that's just for the owner administrator, who rarely comes on as far as I know.


Make a thread here, instead:

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/site-feedback/

That's the Site Feedback section. You should see it at the bottom of the main page if you'd rather find it yourself.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

All souls are "of God", they come from and return to God.
Every thing that is "of God" is, and remains, perfect.
No soul is, or can be, destroyed.

 

[Man of Faith]

It's called the Soul-O-Matic, Version 8.0.6001. It can slice, dice, it's a rotisserie, injects flavor, removes smoke, and dehydrates. But wait, there is more! How much would you pay to be God? not $1,000, $700, $400, $100, $50, or $20, how about just $19.95?

 

[robo]

All souls are "of God", they come from and return to God.
Every thing that is "of God" is, and remains, perfect.
No soul is, or can be, destroyed.

OK. But this doesnt address the OP. Is there any one religion/sect that your God will grant entry into heaven and condemn others to eternal hellfire?

If yes, the OP is trying to figure out how your God goes about allocating souls to families that practise different faiths.

 

[Gharib]

in islam we believe that everyone (us, the soul) was already created long before he came to life on earth (before one was born). this is supported in the Qur'an with the following verse:

"And what is the matter with you that you believe not in Allah! While the Messenger (Muhammad SAW) invites you to believe in your Lord (Allah), and He (Allah) has indeed taken your covenant, if you are real believers". [57:8]

by covenant it means the promise we made to Allah that we would worship him in this life and believe in him. this matter is explained a little further in the link below:

Did All Souls Prostrate Allah? - Ask a Question to Us

i have read another article which directly answers your questions, however i can't find it right now, when i do i will post it.

btw, what faith/religion do you follow robo?

 

[robo]

Hello eselam:

Thanks for the link, but that doesnt answer the question from the OP. From the OP, assume that Shia Islam is the only true religion. Allah knows this. All souls make a covenant with Allah that we would worship only Allah without ascribing partners to him. At this point, I am guessing there is nothing to differentiate one soul from another. All of them are equal in all respects. Yes? They havent yet been assigned to a Shiite family, a Sunni family, a Buddhist family, a Hindu family, a Jewish family, a Christian family, etc., etc.

Now, how does my soul get assigned to a non-Shiite family, while someone else's soul get assigned to a Shiite family? Thats the question.

Is the assignment random?

The other way out is to say that Allah creates some souls specifically for taking birth in non-Shiite families. That way, right from the moment of creation, the souls are unequal.

 

[Vger]

All souls are "of God", they come from and return to God.
Every thing that is "of God" is, and remains, perfect.
No soul is, or can be, destroyed.

never mind,

 

[Storm]

It's not a fair question, really. When discussing theistic Creators, you by definition assume an intellect capable of engineering quantum mechanics. You want puny humans to guess at His algorithms?

FTR, I am not a theist.

 

[wmjbyatt]

I would say that the material of souls doesn't quite work that way; souls are not separately identifiable, discrete items rolling off of some Heavenly Assembly Line and then being assigned Embodiment in some person post-export.

Perhaps this is the postmodern existentialist in me talking, but I'd rather suggest that "soul" is the eternal life-force which is/comes-from God, and God thus imbues bodies with soul. Think of soul in this sense like fire. God is a great, big, blazing ball of fire. Your body is an unlit candle. When it is time to give life to your body, God brings the candle close to Himself and lights the candle from His own flame.

The soul then is not something separate that can be assigned, but only becomes separate upon assignation. There is no algorithm, there is no lottery. Your body is simply ensouled using the power of God's own soul. Your soul has no individual identification until it is giving life to your body.

 

[PolyHedral]

Perhaps this is the postmodern existentialist in me talking, but I'd rather suggest that "soul" is the eternal life-force which is/comes-from God, and God thus imbues bodies with soul. Think of soul in this sense like fire. God is a great, big, blazing ball of fire. Your body is an unlit candle. When it is time to give life to your body, God brings the candle close to Himself and lights the candle from His own flame.

So what counts as alive?

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

OK. But this doesnt address the OP. Is there any one religion/sect that your God will grant entry into heaven and condemn others to eternal hellfire?

If yes, the OP is trying to figure out how your God goes about allocating souls to families that practise different faiths.

That makes the assumption I believe that there is a hellfire...
I do not... nor do I believe in Hell.
I believe in universal salvation.

Soul is indivisible from Life and God.
With out God there could be neither life nor soul.
Soul is the Spark of life that is God.

 

[robo]

@Terrywoodenpic:

Yes. The question in my OP does lose some weight if you believe in ultimate salvation for all souls and no eternal hellfire for non-believers. In that case, whether one is a Shiite, Sunni, Buddhist, Hindu, Christian or Jewish, we can all continue to live life normally without fighting as to which one faith is better than the other.

In any case, I hope some theist who believes in eternal hellfire for souls purely because souls took birth in the "wrong" religion can answer the question.

 

[zenzero]

Friend robo,

Sorry, find the question an exercise of the MIND which will never bring any result as religions are only PATHS to transcend that MIND itself.

Love & rgds

 

[St Giordano Bruno]

I don't believe in multiple souls, there is only the one that is necessary for the universe to be aware of its own existence known as the anthropic principle. It is not God by any means because it is not omnipotent it is only an observation effect as the universe achieved a critical level of complexity.

 

[Shermana]

Certain Shia believe, like the Alawis and the Yaffuria, in reincarnation (as I do and many others of Torah-based faith like Chasidim). Twelvers as well. Sufis as well, and Sufi was a Shia sect.

shia imami nizar ismaili muslim: reincarnation in Islam

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ya%E2%80%99furiyya_Shia

http://www.angelfire.com/az/rescon/mgcalawi.html

The idea of "eternal hellfire"then is that there's an eternally existing hell, but each soul's stay is there temporary except for very very naughty cases.

In this event, one's rebirth is based on their adherence to the Laws of the Creator.

 

[Gharib]

Hello eselam:

Thanks for the link, but that doesnt answer the question from the OP. From the OP, assume that Shia Islam is the only true religion. Allah knows this. All souls make a covenant with Allah that we would worship only Allah without ascribing partners to him. At this point, I am guessing there is nothing to differentiate one soul from another. All of them are equal in all respects. Yes? They havent yet been assigned to a Shiite family, a Sunni family, a Buddhist family, a Hindu family, a Jewish family, a Christian family, etc., etc.

Now, how does my soul get assigned to a non-Shiite family, while someone else's soul get assigned to a Shiite family? Thats the question.

Is the assignment random?

The other way out is to say that Allah creates some souls specifically for taking birth in non-Shiite families. That way, right from the moment of creation, the souls are unequal.

to answer your question in short, the 'assignment' is not random. nothing happens without the will and perfect knowledge of Allah. to say that something random happened is to not have any knowledge of it's happening.

what you ask is related to hadith similar to the following that explain our existence before we came to life on earth where the Prophet (pbuh) said: “Souls are like crowds which gather together. The ones who met before get on well. The ones, who did not meet before, cannot get on very well and separate.” (Bukhari, Anbiya, 2; Muslim, Birr, 159; Abu Dawud, Adab, 19).

the article i said i was looking for had similar hadith to the one above i just can't remember if we are born in our families because we interacted with one another before we came to earth, or if that is something different? i know for sure that the people whom we like on earth or are our friends were friends with us in the realm of souls where we existed before, i just don't have those hadith to show for it.

now that the assignment is not random, in what whay are souls not equal?

 

[robo]

@eselam:

I think I am not able to get my point across to you accurately.

The question is as follows:

Assume Religion A is the only true religion as per your God and Religions B, C, ... , Z are false.

(1)Firstly, according to your religion, will followers of Religions B, C, ... , burn in eternal hellfire in the hereafter?

(2)If the answer to (1) is YES, my question aims at asking HOW your God assigns souls. How does God decide this soul should take birth in a family that practises Religion A, while this soul should take birth in a family that practises Religion Z? At the time of assignment of souls to families, are they completely identical to each other or do the souls have some differentiating factor?

(3)If the answer to (1) is NO, then my question doesnt apply to your religion.