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What are National Interests?

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
We very often hear this term "National Interests" bandied about whenever some crisis in the world pops up, leading to questions within our government as to what the U.S. should do for the sake of our national interests.

It might sometimes be associated with a country's economic interests, such as trade, access to vital resources, security of trade routes - all of which can be reasonably argued as vital national interests. There's also the security of the national soil itself, maintaining law and order from within and protecting from potential enemies from without.

I suppose this would be the case for any country, whether it's the U.S., Panama, Chad, Albania, or any other country. Every country wants to protect itself, maintain its sovereignty and enforce the law within its borders, and have access to the necessary resources for national survival and viability. A few countries do quite well in this regard, while many others, not so well.

But I just wanted to get others' thoughts on the general topic of national interests and where they actually lie.
 

Mike10

New Member
na·tion·al relating to a nation; common to or characteristic of a whole nation: .
4
: belonging to or maintained by the federal government one that owes allegiance to or is under the protection of a nation without regard to the more formal status of citizen or subject
5
a
: a people having a common origin, tradition, and language and capable of forming or actually constituting a nation-state an ethnic group constituting one element of a larger unit (such as a nation)

The Scottish people or Scots (Scots: Scots fowk; Scottish Gaelic: Albannaich) are an ethnic group and nation native to Scotland.
Americans are the citizens and nationals of the United States of America. The United States is home to people of many racial and ethnic origins; consequently, American culture and law do not equate nationality with race or ethnicity

www.religiousforums.com/threads/new-mary-queen-of-scots-movie-presbyterian-legal-in-us-in-what-way.273148/

I think that Nationality as a word can be pushed around so much because its a conquered interest by the government under nativism, or, integration, or, forming strange lobbying groups.

The presbytery sends representatives to a broader regional or national assembly, generally known as the General Assembly.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=POR8AaSZG_U
www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUTfYvkBeZk

"I pledge allegiance to the flag , .. one nation under God..."
 

amorphous_constellation

Well-Known Member
We very often hear this term "National Interests" bandied about whenever some crisis in the world pops up, leading to questions within our government as to what the U.S. should do for the sake of our national interests.
I would posit that it's likely pretty much the same for any powerful nation, with the exception that in some places, slightly less of a pitch has to be made to any random person in the nation. Though one may emphasize the point that in america, they seem to go ahead and do stuff anyway, with the rhetorical arguments just standing in for the frosting on the cake of it.

I think before one can understand what a national interest is, one might have to understand what the concept of sovereignty is. Sovereignty for whom, or what? The documents that underwrite a nation, the laws? The individuals in it? The leaders? The motives? To the degree that all humans on the planet seem to share some general motivations, how are those really nationalized?

Did a russian fighting in afghanistan understand more about why he was there than an american?

If most people want 'world peace,' where does that possibly come into conflict with national interests? What if peace is attained, but it appears to be corrupted? Is there such a thing as a corrupted peace?
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
I would posit that it's likely pretty much the same for any powerful nation, with the exception that in some places, slightly less of a pitch has to be made to any random person in the nation. Though one may emphasize the point that in america, they seem to go ahead and do stuff anyway, with the rhetorical arguments just standing in for the frosting on the cake of it.

Yes, that seems to be true. The US government and media often present a very oversimplified version of the world for the sake of public consumption, with a lot of vague talk about patriotism, along with a good deal of melodrama, usually involving the so-called "free world" vs. whatever form of "evil" we happen to oppose. Some people might buy it, but others might be a harder sell, so that's when they get pitched the national interests position.

This is especially true, if it doesn't appear that there's any immediate threat to our national soil.

I think before one can understand what a national interest is, one might have to understand what the concept of sovereignty is. Sovereignty for whom, or what? The documents that underwrite a nation, the laws? The individuals in it? The leaders? The motives? To the degree that all humans on the planet seem to share some general motivations, how are those really nationalized?

These are all excellent questions. I consider a sovereign nation to be one that's independent and which makes its own laws and governs itself. How it governs itself would be considered to be its own business. If it's a dictatorship and the people rise up and overthrow it to form a free and democratic government, it would still be sovereign regardless - unless an outside power invades or intervenes, in which case their sovereignty would be in jeopardy.

That's where it can get a bit dicey, since some countries might be in a position of disadvantage or weakness to the point where they can be easily subdued or dominated by larger powers.

Did a russian fighting in afghanistan understand more about why he was there than an american?

I can't really say. However, considering that Afghanistan bordered the USSR at the time, it might have been easier to sell the idea of a hostile nation right off their border, which could have been a threat to their national territory. Likewise, Americans might be easily convinced that military actions close to America, such as in Panama or Grenada, might be necessary for our national protection and sovereignty. But when it comes to sending troops to far-flung places like Afghanistan and Vietnam, our leaders have a lot more explaining to do.

With Afghanistan, it was initially to try to find Osama Bin Ladin, capture him, and bring him to justice. That seemed simple enough at first. Though it took ten years to find him - not in Afghanistan - and then the troops remained there another ten years. That was more difficult to understand.

If most people want 'world peace,' where does that possibly come into conflict with national interests? What if peace is attained, but it appears to be corrupted? Is there such a thing as a corrupted peace?

It could be. The major powers have largely remained at peace, though the wars which break out seem to involve smaller powers fighting each other - or perhaps a smaller power being attacked by a larger power. The major powers will not fight each other, especially if they're nuclear armed. But they may fight through proxies among the smaller nations or factions which may be pliable towards advancing their interests.

In a situation such as during the Cold War, where the US and USSR remained officially at peace throughout, the war was still fought through proxies, in which powers used other nations as pawns. Both the US and USSR were major arms exporters, and would send out trainers and advisors to whatever faction they were backing.

That might be an example of a "corrupted peace," since both major powers were technically at peace, yet with nasty and violent underpinnings. It led to a great deal of death and destruction, but not within the sovereign territory of either major power.
 

Hermit Philosopher

Selflessly here for you
National interests are interests that exclude the fate of the majority of people, in a belief that there is a true and static “us” and “them” and from a limited understanding of all people’s mutual relation to and dependence on each other.

Humbly,
Hermit
 

amorphous_constellation

Well-Known Member
Yes, that seems to be true. The US government and media often present a very oversimplified version of the world for the sake of public consumption, with a lot of vague talk about patriotism, along with a good deal of melodrama, usually involving the so-called "free world" vs. whatever form of "evil" we happen to oppose. Some people might buy it, but others might be a harder sell, so that's when they get pitched the national interests position.

This is especially true, if it doesn't appear that there's any immediate threat to our national soil.
I think it's probably true for what the governments of other countries tell their people about us as well. I would posit that a more authoritarian position would like to point out to its people, that there is something about american freedoms that makes us erratic, and that this is undesirable. My counterargument to that, would have something to do with the idea that no one said greater freedom was easier for the public to maneuver, but that doesn't invalidate the idea that they should try.

The idea is if we can't all agree to individually build and create something better out of the nation, then central planners will do it for us. I think the economic goals in all nations seem to give way to centralized planning and decision making anyway, to a large degree. And once resources and space get tight, decisions on that tend to get consolidated as well.
 

amorphous_constellation

Well-Known Member
I consider a sovereign nation to be one that's independent and which makes its own laws and governs itself. How it governs itself would be considered to be its own business. If it's a dictatorship and the people rise up and overthrow it to form a free and democratic government, it would still be sovereign regardless - unless an outside power invades or intervenes, in which case their sovereignty would be in jeopardy.
So in this equation, we have a power, an outside power, and an internal people within a nation. I think maybe in all cases, the power of an internal people in a nation is offset / consolidated to some degree. No body of people seems like it can ever be fully satisfied with what the power leading it does, or is.
 

amorphous_constellation

Well-Known Member
It could be. The major powers have largely remained at peace, though the wars which break out seem to involve smaller powers fighting each other - or perhaps a smaller power being attacked by a larger power. The major powers will not fight each other, especially if they're nuclear armed.
But then, what exactly do the nuclear arms represent. I think I saw a headline that u.s. just came out with, or was making a nuke 24 times more powerful that one of those that was dropped on Japan. I think maybe nukes represent a corrupted form of piece. Because what it's really saying, is that the arms power is more powerful than the best speech or language, which would otherwise be used to negotiate
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
We very often hear this term "National Interests" bandied about whenever some crisis in the world pops up, leading to questions within our government as to what the U.S. should do for the sake of our national interests.

It might sometimes be associated with a country's economic interests, such as trade, access to vital resources, security of trade routes - all of which can be reasonably argued as vital national interests. There's also the security of the national soil itself, maintaining law and order from within and protecting from potential enemies from without.

I suppose this would be the case for any country, whether it's the U.S., Panama, Chad, Albania, or any other country. Every country wants to protect itself, maintain its sovereignty and enforce the law within its borders, and have access to the necessary resources for national survival and viability. A few countries do quite well in this regard, while many others, not so well.

But I just wanted to get others' thoughts on the general topic of national interests and where they actually lie.
They don't anymore.

It's all foreign interests now.
 

amorphous_constellation

Well-Known Member
They don't anymore.

It's all foreign interests now.
Probably I guess. I mean, it's kind of looking like I will retire onto the street, and never own anything. Meanwhile there are billions that go to foreign intervention, and I think I saw a headline that the u.s. just made a nuke that was 24 times more powerful than one of the ones from world war 2. There are problems out there that are costing us a lot for some reason, so I just hope they at least get solved. That way they at least get their money's worth, or we do, if whatever they are doing is actually necessary for some reason that I don't fully grasp. Maybe after another pile of books, I'll learn a little more
 

libre

In flight
Staff member
Premium Member
We very often hear this term "National Interests" bandied about whenever some crisis in the world pops up, leading to questions within our government as to what the U.S. should do for the sake of our national interests.

It might sometimes be associated with a country's economic interests, such as trade, access to vital resources, security of trade routes - all of which can be reasonably argued as vital national interests. There's also the security of the national soil itself, maintaining law and order from within and protecting from potential enemies from without.

I suppose this would be the case for any country, whether it's the U.S., Panama, Chad, Albania, or any other country. Every country wants to protect itself, maintain its sovereignty and enforce the law within its borders, and have access to the necessary resources for national survival and viability. A few countries do quite well in this regard, while many others, not so well.

But I just wanted to get others' thoughts on the general topic of national interests and where they actually lie.
I think "National Interests", like most political concepts, vary in meaning from political science, to political campaigning, to news and to common parlance. In the study of international relations, the term 'National Interests' is closely associated with the theory of Realism.

Realism is a theory that has a level of hegemony in the west that most people unconsciously apply it in their analysis without knowing that other competing explanations of world politics exist.

Realists recognize the state as the only main actor in international politics. They view it as the highest form of organization that is capable of mediating any conflict or exerting power over others. As a result, to realists the study of international relations is the study of different nationstates struggling to survive against others, with an emphasis that war is inevitable and states need to be self-reliant.

In this theory 'national interests' are synonymous with the fight for survival, maximizing a state's own power and influence with the end goal of achieving hegemony in the international system.

When the pentagon talks about national interests, this is what they mean. Realist statesmen believe that they need to act in their own 'national interests' of improving their own states' power and control over the international system and restricting the national interests of other states. To realists, allied countries are best a potential future enemy that must be accounted for.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
But then, what exactly do the nuclear arms represent. I think I saw a headline that u.s. just came out with, or was making a nuke 24 times more powerful that one of those that was dropped on Japan. I think maybe nukes represent a corrupted form of piece. Because what it's really saying, is that the arms power is more powerful than the best speech or language, which would otherwise be used to negotiate

There may be some truth to the idea that political power flows out of the barrel of a gun. But then, it is also often said that the pen is mightier than the sword, at least in the sense that it can inspire and energize people to action. The implied theory is that if an idea is good enough and expressed well enough, people will follow it and create a large enough power base to prevail.

Nukes obviously throw a monkey wrench into the peace process. Their existence has likely prevented wars from getting too far out of hand, as all sides have an interest in resisting or avoiding any kind of escalation. If nukes had never existed, the post-WW2 era probably would have seen larger conventional wars.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
They don't anymore.

It's all foreign interests now.

Possibly, or perhaps shared interests among transnational corporations who may align along corporate interests rather than strictly national interests.

Ladies and Gentlemen, our corporate anthem!

 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
When the pentagon talks about national interests, this is what they mean. Realist statesmen believe that they need to act in their own 'national interests' of improving their own states' power and control over the international system and restricting the national interests of other states. To realists, allied countries are best a potential future enemy that must be accounted for.

It would seem that way, although on a surface level, our government appears to favor a more idealistic form of foreign policy, rooted in the belief that spreading freedom and democracy around the world will produce stable governments, open trade, and a greater level of peace. There's a popular notion that free and democratic countries almost never go to war with each other, leading some to believe that the spread of freedom and democracy will bring about a more peaceful world.
 

libre

In flight
Staff member
Premium Member
It would seem that way, although on a surface level, our government appears to favor a more idealistic form of foreign policy, rooted in the belief that spreading freedom and democracy around the world will produce stable governments, open trade, and a greater level of peace. There's a popular notion that free and democratic countries almost never go to war with each other, leading some to believe that the spread of freedom and democracy will bring about a more peaceful world.
That's true. The notion that democratic countries do not go to wars with each other is a very common viewpoint in liberal theories of international relations that the US has been flirting with since the end of the cold war. International relations is definitely a field where the product smells different than the marketing might imply.

In my view the perspective that democratic countries do not go to war with each-other is more of a testament to the capability of the United States and NATO to de-legitimize their enemies by framing them as undemocratic rather than a testament to democracy, but I digress.
 
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