What are religionists being taught about other religions?

[Hockeycowboy]

Which "words" of Christ are the true ones? JW's? Mormons? Catholics? Pentecostals? Fundamentalists? Only a couple of the Christian groups bother to go out and knock on people's doors. Only a couple of them think that the Word is important enough to take it right to the people. Some people in some of the other sects get up on their soapboxes and shout at the people around them to repent that the day of the Lord is near. But, how many people are just plain old annoyed with this?

So you believe your group has the truth. And, it exhorts its people to go out and evangelize. Then what do you think of other "Christian" groups, whose teachings are a little off? Are their purposes nefarious? Are they just blind follower and don't realize they are being deceived? Do they believe your group is the one that is wrong and do have a nefarious plot to spread lies? Do some Christian groups do warn their congregation to avoid certain other religious groups so as not to get "infected"? Infected with false teachings? Probably, and they should, 'cause people will get affected by what others say and might just change their beliefs and agree with the other group.

I would imagine that most TV evangelists have some nefarious scheme going on... Especially the spiritual healings and "prosperity gospel" preachers. So we gotta avoid and be wary of some of them. So can we and should we trust the people coming to our door with pamphlets in their hands? Since it is pretty much just two Christian groups that go to people's houses, should we trust the one and not the other? But... I'm not just talking about Christians. There is another religious group that does the "subtle" more "sneaky" way of proselytizing. As do some of these other Christian groups. Naturally, they justify it, because they think they have the truth. But what else can they do? To make "friends" with people first seems innocent enough. But, if the real purpose is to "teach" the new "friend" about their religion, is that nefarious? They don't come cold calling, they find ways to get unwary people to open the door and let them right on in.

What’s the motive? If these evangelicals get money out of it...then I would doubt their sincerity.

Of course, money doesn’t have to be the motive....there are others....but money is the most obvious.

 

[CG Didymus]

What’s the motive? If these evangelicals get money out of it...then I would doubt their sincerity.

Of course, money doesn’t have to be the motive....there are others....but money is the most obvious.

I'm sure the followers in the different sects believe in what they are taught. Their motive would be to serve God by teaching his word. Unfortunately, there is so many variations of the "Truth" about God and Jesus. And now the Baha'is add one more.

Then about money... some people in some religions do seem to have power and money as part of their motivation.

 

[CG Didymus]

That could be God.

God gives us the information we require in each age, then we get to choice to use that wisdom, or not.

Regards Tony

Here's a list of a bunch of religions.
Hinduism - 2000 BC
Judaism - 1500 BC
Zoroaster - 620 BC
Janism - 600 BC
Taoism - 580 BC
Confusious - 550 BC
Buddhism - 524 BC
Christianity - 30 AD
Shinto - 100 AD
Islam - 570 AD
Sikhism - 1530 AD
Baha'u'llah - 1890 AD

So God was only concerned with the people in India when he sent somebody to teach them about many Gods and reincarnation. Then in the Middle East he spoke with Moses and told him he is the one true God and all the other were phonies, and gave them a bunch of laws to obey. Then in Persia he sent Zoroaster. What do Baha'is believe about Zoroastrianism, 'cause I thought it was a dualistic religion and had a battle between a good and evil God?

Then Baha'is don't talk much about the Jainism, Taoism, and about Confucius. So their founders weren't prophets or manifestations? But then we got Buddhism. So what were these different ages between these different religions? And why are those religions still around? If God sent new information for a new age, why do those old religions still work for people?

Next we have Jesus and Christianity. What age just ended and what age just began? What information did Jesus bring that was needed for the age that he started? How did it supersede the information of the previous age and manifestation, the Buddha?

After that all we have that is important to Baha'is is Islam and the Baha'i Faith. Any comments on Shinto or Sikhism? Like with Shinto, did the Japanese have a manifestation from God to teach them the things they needed to know? Or was Shinto it?

But, anyway, lots of information. Lots of religions and religious and spiritual thought. Lots of wisdom. But all from God? Or, did people come up with some of this?

 

[Deeje]

Thanks, I didn't see it....

Greek was the language of the world. The Apostles wrote in this language because it used throughout the Roman Empire. They either spoke and wrote the language, or dictated to scribes, who wrote in Koine Greek.

As to your alleged translation.

A comparison of the NWT with eight different translations, all translated by true scholars finds that the NWT has omitted 17 full verses, and 10 partial verses.

Reference please...

A comparison of the 1984 edition of the NWT and the 2013 edition of the NWT, one finds that over thirty verses have been removed in the latter edition.

Reference please...I'd like to see these verses and compare.

Why ? To support particular perverse doctrines of the JWś, like shunning ? I believe so.

Ex-communication is not exclusive to JW's though, is it? What does ex-communication mean exactly?

"What does it mean to be excommunicated?
Excommunication is really a kind of banishment, a punishment that's handed out by a church when one of its members breaks some important church rule. The Latin root is excommunicare, meaning "put out of the community," which is just what happens when a person is excommunicated.
excommunication - Dictionary Definition : Vocabulary.com

https://www.vocabulary.com › dictionary › excommunication"
This is based on scripture....
1 Corinthians 5:11-15...
" But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler—not even to eat with such a one. 12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church? 13 But those who are outside, God judges. Remove the wicked man from among yourselves." (NASB)

Seems pretty clear to me...

What about 2 John 9-11?
"Anyone who goes too far and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house, and do not give him a greeting; 11 for the one who gives him a greeting participates in his evil deeds." (NASB)

Those who go against the teachings of Jesus Christ are not to be tolerated in the congregation, nor is their company to be sought...not even to say a greeting. I don't know how Christendom manages that situation when they routinely go against the teachings of Jesus in so many ways. Would you like a list?

We can go to one of the well known JW changes, not found in any other translations, John 1:1
¨ In the beginning was The Word, and The Word was with God, and The Word was God" NASB

¨ In the beginning was the Word, and the word was with God, and the word was a god.΅ NWT

Since your organiztion is Arian, anti Triniatarian, this verse was changed to suit the Arian belief. However, the change begs the question, isn´t having multi gods a pagan concept ?

Is that true? Or is that what you have been told?

JW's are not Arians, just to be clear. We follow scripture and it alone declares that Jesus is not part of a triune godhead. I have provided so many scriptures on numerous occasions in proof of this, but they are all ignored. (e.g. John 17:3; 1 Corinthians 8:5-6)

The Greeks did not have a word for the singular God of Israel because they were polytheists. All their gods had names, and were collectively just called "the gods".....but Israel's God was at that time a nameless "Lord", which is a title, not a name. To distinguish this God from all the other gods, the Greeks added the definite article "the". So if you consult the Greek in John 1:1 you will see the definite article in the first instance but not in the second.

"In en the beginning archē was eimi the ho Word logos, and kai the ho Word logos was eimi with pros · ho God theos, and kai the ho Word logos was eimi God theos." (John 1:1 Mounce Interlinear)

Its such a little word..."ho".....but it means so much in this verse, which in NON WAY promotes a trinity.

That IMO, makes the NWT more accurate than the other translations who put a capital "G" on the second "god". There were no capitals in Greek.

JWś fundamentally do not understand the Trinity, as Arius did not. The Godhead is a single being or entity with three points of interconnected consciousness. Since people only have one point of consciousness, Arius could not concede that God, and people were different in this area, neither can the JWś.

LOL...neither could the Jews.....who still don't believe in a trinity for the simple reason......it was never taught in their scripture, so if the Jews didn't believe it and Jesus was Jewish, what does that mean?
.....you know that none of the Abrahamic faiths teach a trinity except Christendom. God figure.....

I will be happy to go verse by verse with you on the changed and deleted verses that only your Bible has.

Please do.....I have been waiting for this....but if you reject the truth about John 1:1, then I doubt you'll accept anything else...but it will be worth a shot.

I believe it is a perfect case of a theological belief, the tail, wagging the dog, what the Bible actually says. Forcing the Bible to fit a preconceived position, rather than what the Bible actually says being allowed to decide the position.

Well, first you have to know what the Bible actually taught to the ones to whom it was written. Let's allow the Bible to speak for itself shall we?....

Lets start with John. ¨ In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God ¨

Already explained that one....see above.

What's next....?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

But, anyway, lots of information. Lots of religions and religious and spiritual thought. Lots of wisdom. But all from God? Or, did people come up with some of this?

With all that you asked, that is the question we must ask of ourself and find the answers for our own self.

So what was from God and what has come from man in all those Faiths?

For a Baha'i we have been given guidance to make a more informed decision.

For others they have to make conclusions based on what they know.

Regards Tony

 

[JesusKnowsYou]

Once I had some religionists knock on my door and I welcomed them and invited them in my home to say prayers for humanity. They replied that their elders had forbidden them to mingle or become friendly with people from other Faiths because they might catch a ‘spiritual disease ‘.

I would love to be a fly on the wall to hear what is really being taught to such people to instill prejudice against people of different Faiths and where is their justification for promoting such prejudices.it does not come from the Holy Books.

Does it make any difference where we pray and meditate whether it be a pagoda, a church, temple, mosque or synagogue? What harm is there in going to each other’s churches and temples to pray, meditate and mingle?

In our Faith we have no such restrictions. We are encouraged to ‘consort with the followers of all religions with friendship and fellowship’ and again ‘“Consort with all religions with amity and concord, that they may inhale from you the sweet fragrance of God”

In our Houses of Worship each week all over the world we read from the Holy Books of all Faiths Buddhism, Judaism, Christianity, Hinduism, Zoroastrianism, Islam as well as our own Faith and participate in interfaith.

Do you think we should try and build bridges between the religions or keep aloof from one another? Isn’t it time the religions of the world came together to eliminate the hatreds that have caused bitter wars between them and find common ground to get along with one another?

What does your religion teach you about other religions? What if anything is mentioned in your Holy Books regarding other Faiths?

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believes and teaches that all faiths have their measure of truth and should be respected.

 

[CG Didymus]

Here's a list of a bunch of religions.
Hinduism - 2000 BC
Judaism - 1500 BC
Zoroaster - 620 BC
Janism - 600 BC
Taoism - 580 BC
Confusious - 550 BC
Buddhism - 524 BC
Christianity - 30 AD
Shinto - 100 AD
Islam - 570 AD
Sikhism - 1530 AD
Baha'u'llah - 1890 AD

So God was only concerned with the people in India when he sent somebody to teach them about many Gods and reincarnation. Then in the Middle East he spoke with Moses and told him he is the one true God and all the other were phonies, and gave them a bunch of laws to obey. Then in Persia he sent Zoroaster. What do Baha'is believe about Zoroastrianism, 'cause I thought it was a dualistic religion and had a battle between a good and evil God?

Then Baha'is don't talk much about the Jainism, Taoism, and about Confucius. So their founders weren't prophets or manifestations? But then we got Buddhism. So what were these different ages between these different religions? And why are those religions still around? If God sent new information for a new age, why do those old religions still work for people?

Next we have Jesus and Christianity. What age just ended and what age just began? What information did Jesus bring that was needed for the age that he started? How did it supersede the information of the previous age and manifestation, the Buddha?

After that all we have that is important to Baha'is is Islam and the Baha'i Faith. Any comments on Shinto or Sikhism? Like with Shinto, did the Japanese have a manifestation from God to teach them the things they needed to know? Or was Shinto it?

With all that you asked, that is the question we must ask of ourself and find the answers for our own self.

So what was from God and what has come from man in all those Faiths?

And what is the Baha'i answer? Baha'is omit a lot of these religions. Even the ones they do include do not fit into the Baha'i "progressive" revelation mold. I would agree that religion and religious thought has progressed. But not how the Baha'is claim it is a progression of eternal spiritual truths with added temporary "social" laws that change from messenger to messenger.

So what are Baha'is really taught about the other religions? We've been through Christianity a lot, and Baha'is have said that there was no literal, physical resurrection of Jesus. There is no Satan. Baha'is have put a symbolic explanation to some of the miracles. They say that people were "spiritually" blind or "spiritually" dead and Jesus gave them spiritual sight and brought them out of being spiritually dead. So do Baha'i "consort" with Christians that believe those things as literal? They never worry about being "infected" by these Christian teachings? But, do they try and "teach" the Christian the Baha'i way of interpreting these things? Or, couldn't we say, Baha'is are trying to infect the Christian, but to the Baha'i it is a good thing.

But what do Baha'is do with the religions of Asia? Baha'i beliefs are far different than theirs. Do Baha'i consort with them and not tell them about the Baha'i Faith? And how Baha'is disagree with many of the beliefs those other religions hold?

Baha'is have also said that no people were left without guidance from the one true God. Here's a link talking about ancient beliefs of the people in China.

There were over 200 gods and goddesses worshipped throughout ancient China, but if one were to count every deity or spirit, the number would be over 1,000. Each town, village, city, field, farm, and sometimes even separate plot in a graveyard, had its own Tudi Gong, an elemental earth spirit, who was recognized and honored. There were also spirits known as Kuei-Shen, nature spirits, who might inhabit a tree or live by a stream or preside over a garden...
The gods were believed to have created the world and human beings, and they kept the world and surrounding universe functioning. Each deity had his or her own special area of power and influence, and the most important were given their own shrines and temples..​

Is there anything that Baha'is believe is true about those Gods? Or, like with Christianity, and Hinduism and Buddhism and others, Baha'is simply explain away the differences? And "consort" with them knowing that at some point they are going to "teach" them the truth about the real God. The God as believed and defined by the Baha'is? Since I expect a vague rope-a-dope type of answer, I will tell you the answer. It is "yes". Baha'is are there because they want to find people to join the Baha'i cause. A cause that says it can unite the world in peace and love. And what's wrong with that? Then why not admit it? You are there to get people away from their old beliefs and practices and into the Baha'i Faith. You are not there to celebrate and encourage the things that other religion is believing and teaching. You are there to get them to believe a new message from God is here and that all people need to let go of their old religion.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

And what is the Baha'i answer? Baha'is omit a lot of these religions. Even the ones they do include do not fit into the Baha'i "progressive" revelation mold. I would agree that religion and religious thought has progressed. But not how the Baha'is claim it is a progression of eternal spiritual truths with added temporary "social" laws that change from messenger to messenger.

So what are Baha'is really taught about the other religions? We've been through Christianity a lot, and Baha'is have said that there was no literal, physical resurrection of Jesus. There is no Satan. Baha'is have put a symbolic explanation to some of the miracles. They say that people were "spiritually" blind or "spiritually" dead and Jesus gave them spiritual sight and brought them out of being spiritually dead. So do Baha'i "consort" with Christians that believe those things as literal? They never worry about being "infected" by these Christian teachings? But, do they try and "teach" the Christian the Baha'i way of interpreting these things? Or, couldn't we say, Baha'is are trying to infect the Christian, but to the Baha'i it is a good thing.

But what do Baha'is do with the religions of Asia? Baha'i beliefs are far different than theirs. Do Baha'i consort with them and not tell them about the Baha'i Faith? And how Baha'is disagree with many of the beliefs those other religions hold?

Baha'is have also said that no people were left without guidance from the one true God. Here's a link talking about ancient beliefs of the people in China.

There were over 200 gods and goddesses worshipped throughout ancient China, but if one were to count every deity or spirit, the number would be over 1,000. Each town, village, city, field, farm, and sometimes even separate plot in a graveyard, had its own Tudi Gong, an elemental earth spirit, who was recognized and honored. There were also spirits known as Kuei-Shen, nature spirits, who might inhabit a tree or live by a stream or preside over a garden...
The gods were believed to have created the world and human beings, and they kept the world and surrounding universe functioning. Each deity had his or her own special area of power and influence, and the most important were given their own shrines and temples..​

Is there anything that Baha'is believe is true about those Gods? Or, like with Christianity, and Hinduism and Buddhism and others, Baha'is simply explain away the differences? And "consort" with them knowing that at some point they are going to "teach" them the truth about the real God. The God as believed and defined by the Baha'is? Since I expect a vague rope-a-dope type of answer, I will tell you the answer. It is "yes". Baha'is are there because they want to find people to join the Baha'i cause. A cause that says it can unite the world in peace and love. And what's wrong with that? Then why not admit it? You are there to get people away from their old beliefs and practices and into the Baha'i Faith. You are not there to celebrate and encourage the things that other religion is believing and teaching. You are there to get them to believe a new message from God is here and that all people need to let go of their old religion.

CG there are Baha'i from all the world Faiths that saw fulfilment with their faith and embraced the Oneness given by Baha'u'llah.

That really is the logical answer. If people in all those faiths can reconcile what they beleived with what Baha'u'llah has offered, then it needs no further proofs from my ignorance of their faiths.

As Baha'u'llah has said, if it is not of God, surely it is easily refuted and no one will embrace the cause.

The quote, "If this Cause be of God, no man can prevail against it; and if it be not of God, the divines amongst you, and they that follow their corrupt desires and such as have rebelled against Him will surely suffice to overpower it...."

Persia failed to subdue the Message, it has gone global. It's world centre is in Haifa Israel. How much proof does it take?

It is one's own heart CG, what are you looking for?

Regards Tony

 

[loverofhumanity]

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believes and teaches that all faiths have their measure of truth and should be respected.

Yes I appreciate that very much. We used to have members of your church in this are and they always accepted our invitation to come in but they seemed to have left this are for years and haven’t seen them for ages. Regards to you all.

 

[loverofhumanity]

This is the first time I ever heard that term used. Is that like saying people that believe only their religion is right and are obligated to spread the word of truth to all the lost souls in the world? And, to some degree, how many religions don't believe they are at least more right than all the others? And, that they have to try and get people to understand how the religions of the other person is wrong and how their religion is right?

Are there "spiritual" diseases out there? Are there some people in some religions that should be avoided? Even Baha'is don't want people to associate with "covenant breakers". Why? Is there some kind of infection that a Baha'i might catch from them? Yes, the lie. The false teachings that they spread. Are there others that Baha'i would and should avoid?

I think so. How many Baha'i went to some Christian group and studied the Bible with them... and then joined them? Or, could I say... got the Jesus infection? But, would and should a Baha'i avoid other Christian groups? How about the Pentecostal Holy Rollers? I have never had so much fun as having spent an evening "consorting" with amity and concord with these people. They were a total crack up. I walked in and they were singing and praying and shouting "Praise God! Praise Jesus!" Old ladies were dancing in the aisles. It was infectious.

Then the message... "Praise the Lord. Praise Jesus. He has healed our infirmities and made us whole!" Then they alter call to come forward to have the elders lay hands on the sick and ailing. One man came up and said that he's had a bad back for years. Wham! hands to the forehead. The man fell backwards into the arms of people waiting to catch him and ease him to the ground. The preacher bent over and prayed. "Demon of back pain leave! Begone! And leave our brother!" Amazingly! The man got up and danced around. He was jumping and bending down and touching his toes. The pain was miraculously gone!

I never had so much fun... laughing. I couldn't take it. I went out to the foyer and watched through a window in the door. I saw people with migraines get healed. I saw people say that they couldn't raise their arms above their heads, suddenly, left their arms and praise the Lord. It was infectious to be sure. They all were like in a trance. A holy trance of believing Jesus was there in the room healing people. Unfortunately, some people in wheelchairs, remained in wheelchairs. But on TV, even people in wheelchairs get up and dance.

But, at another "healing" service, a friend of mine went up and said that when the preacher laid hands on him that it felt like warm honey was being poured on him. So what is real?

But maybe a Baha'i would go to this kind of religious gathering. But, if they mention that they are Baha'i, the people might not be worried about getting your "spiritual" disease, but might just get a group of people around you and pray for you and lay hands on you to get rid of the infection of the Baha'i Faith that is in you.

But I also wouldn't recommend that you go to a Snake Handler Church, or a devil-worshipping church. or one of those religious groups that meet in the woods and get naked and worship nature.

That's the key. Is that spiritual meeting honest and open to all about not trying to convert them, teach them the "word", and in some way trying to get them to reconsider their own religion?

If we were a "fly" on the wall at the Baha'i Teaching Center or even a local Baha'i Feast, what would they be talking about? I would think that part of it would be dealing with how to get more people enrolled as Baha'is. When I was hanging out with them, they specifically had a "teaching" plan to do "mass-teaching" They expected "entry by troops" Ironically, I was with them knocking on doors at an Indian Reserve in Idaho and inviting people to a meeting that night to hear about the Baha'i Faith. And of course their first question was, "and what is the Baha'i Faith?" That was the okay to not proselytize but to tell the people about the Faith. Subtle, isn't it.

But for all the complaining I do about the Baha'i "subtle" methods and about some of their beliefs, their basic beliefs are a lot better than most religions. There, I hope that keeps the Baha'is off my back and acussing me, oops... I meant accusing me of only attacking and saying bad things about them.

We have a lot to learn from one and all and make a lot of mistakes that hopefully we can learn from. My understanding is that our duty is to promote the oneness of mankind by being kind and welcoming to all. Baha’is can’t and never will create world unity, world peace or a world civilisation by ourselves. We are such a tiny, insignificant number so it’s impossible we can really do much except give a bit of a vision and a push and a shove to humanity to unite. We promote prejudice free teachings while at the same time learning and struggling to be free from prejudices ourselves.

I met some beautiful Catholics through the multi cultural group in our city when handing out invitations to our Bicentenary. From the outset I made it clear to them that I was a different Faith and they said it didn’t matter they wanted to be friends. I explained my goal clearly with them was to ‘consort with the followers of all religions NOT to convert them and so we set parameters for a good mutual friendship. We attended mass with them and they came to the Bicentenary and other days they visited and brought delicious curries and Indian food. I accept them as they are and they accept us for who we are. It’s up to them if they ever want to look into the Faith but that’s their business. To have members of two Faiths becoming close friends means the world to me because it’s humans accepting each other as humans and breaking down the prejudices between Faiths which is a barrier to peace.

By all means say what is in your heart and don’t hold back because you have said many things we can learn from. Such as you rightfully pointed out about covenant breaking is also termed a spiritual disease and to shun such people.

A covenant breaker is a very rare occurrence. What is it? Covenant breaking is not being a member of a different religion. Unlike some people who are taught to shun all Baha’is because they are of a different religion, covenant breakers are people who try and create a new sect from within the Baha’i Faith. Instead of resigning from the Faith, their intention is to spread disunity and turn Baha’i against Baha’i in order to create a new Baha’i sect. In this situation Baha’is are instructed not to have any dealings with them but to remain united. So a covenant breaker is one who is actually deliberately trying to cause harm to the unity of the Faith , not just an innocent person with a different opinion.

A covenant breaker is a person who wants complete control of the Baha’i Faith exclusively for himself.

In the Baha’i Faith there are no priests or clergy only elected bodies. Only these bodies have any authority. A covenant breaker wants to set them-self up as an individual authority above all the elected bodies. When the Guardian Shoghi Effendi died He left no will so it was impossible to appoint another Guardian as only the Guardian could appoint another Guardian. But some have tried never the less to gain complete control of the Baha’i Faith for themselves. These are very rare cases not to be compared to people shunning Baha’is just because we have different beliefs. Covenant breakers don’t just have different beliefs, they seek to take over the Baha’i Faith and make it their very own. And it is a very rare occurrence.

 

[CG Didymus]

It is one's own heart CG, what are you looking for?

From the Baha'is I'm looking for deeper answers. My question dealt with religions that Baha'is rarely, if ever, mention. Since in the evolution of religions there seems to be a change between the belief in many Gods to one God. That is not the Baha'i concept of "progressive revelation." That, to me, is ancient people developing religion and using it to explain the world around them and their place in it. Even with early Judaism, their God was only their for them. All the other gods of the neighboring people were called false by the God of Israel.

CG there are Baha'i from all the world Faiths that saw fulfilment with their faith and embraced the Oneness given by Baha'u'llah.

That really is the logical answer. If people in all those faiths can reconcile what they beleived with what Baha'u'llah has offered, then it needs no further proofs from my ignorance of their faiths.

As Baha'u'llah has said, if it is not of God, surely it is easily refuted and no one will embrace the cause.

So why would people leave those other religions and join the Baha'is? Is it because they see a "fufilment" or they see the Baha'i Faith makes more sense than their old religion?

Let's take Catholic Christian beliefs. The person is told they need to do a bunch of sacraments. If they commit a mortal sin and die without confessing it, they will go to hell. They believe Satan is lurking everywhere trying to tempt them. They believe Jesus, the Father and the Holy Ghost are all part of a Godhead. Mary has a prominent place in their beliefs.

Baha'is don't fulfill any of those. Baha'is tell a totally different story. No three part God, just one God. No Mary. No Satan. No confessing sins to priests. So why would a Catholic leave their old religion to join the Baha'i Faith? I really don't they are thinking, "Oh jeez, my Catholic beliefs are fulfilled in Baha'u'llah." I don't think so. Probably, "Geez, I never really believed what those priests were telling me. I like what the Baha'i Faith teaches much I think I'll sign a declaration card and join."

Your religion is a lot better and more sensible than most other religious beliefs. But, Baha'is can't answer the deeper questions. They can't show how all prophecies were fulfilled. Yet they say all prophecies have been fulfilled. And that is prophecies from all religions.

So it's just great that some Baha'is "consort" with people of all religions. But, how many of those Baha'i, deep down, know and believe that their religion is the truth for today and is desperately needed by those other people in those other religions? How many of those Baha'is know some verses from those other religions that they can use to cast doubt on the beliefs of the other religion and show how Baha'u'llah is being alluded to in their Holy Books? How many of those Baha'is, after making friends, would be just tickled pink to have those friends go to a Baha'i fireside and join the Baha'i Faith and dump their old, outdated, and from a Baha'i standpoint, probably false religious beliefs?

But what if it wasn't a Baha'i that befriended them? What about some cult? Or, even, let's say a more radical almost cult-like Christian group? But, you know, some Christian groups think the Baha'i Faith is a cult and a false religion and warns its people to be careful... so as not to get infected.

 

[CG Didymus]

We have a lot to learn from one and all and make a lot of mistakes that hopefully we can learn from. My understanding is that our duty is to promote the oneness of mankind by being kind and welcoming to all. Baha’is can’t and never will create world unity, world peace or a world civilisation by ourselves. We are such a tiny, insignificant number so it’s impossible we can really do much except give a bit of a vision and a push and a shove to humanity to unite. We promote prejudice free teachings while at the same time learning and struggling to be free from prejudices ourselves.

I met some beautiful Catholics through the multi cultural group in our city when handing out invitations to our Bicentenary. From the outset I made it clear to them that I was a different Faith and they said it didn’t matter they wanted to be friends. I explained my goal clearly with them was to ‘consort with the followers of all religions NOT to convert them and so we set parameters for a good mutual friendship. We attended mass with them and they came to the Bicentenary and other days they visited and brought delicious curries and Indian food. I accept them as they are and they accept us for who we are. It’s up to them if they ever want to look into the Faith but that’s their business. To have members of two Faiths becoming close friends means the world to me because it’s humans accepting each other as humans and breaking down the prejudices between Faiths which is a barrier to peace.

By all means say what is in your heart and don’t hold back because you have said many things we can learn from. Such as you rightfully pointed out about covenant breaking is also termed a spiritual disease and to shun such people.

A covenant breaker is a very rare occurrence. What is it? Covenant breaking is not being a member of a different religion. Unlike some people who are taught to shun all Baha’is because they are of a different religion, covenant breakers are people who try and create a new sect from within the Baha’i Faith. Instead of resigning from the Faith, their intention is to spread disunity and turn Baha’i against Baha’i in order to create a new Baha’i sect. In this situation Baha’is are instructed not to have any dealings with them but to remain united. So a covenant breaker is one who is actually deliberately trying to cause harm to the unity of the Faith , not just an innocent person with a different opinion.

A covenant breaker is a person who wants complete control of the Baha’i Faith exclusively for himself.

In the Baha’i Faith there are no priests or clergy only elected bodies. Only these bodies have any authority. A covenant breaker wants to set them-self up as an individual authority above all the elected bodies. When the Guardian Shoghi Effendi died He left no will so it was impossible to appoint another Guardian as only the Guardian could appoint another Guardian. But some have tried never the less to gain complete control of the Baha’i Faith for themselves. These are very rare cases not to be compared to people shunning Baha’is just because we have different beliefs. Covenant breakers don’t just have different beliefs, they seek to take over the Baha’i Faith and make it their very own. And it is a very rare occurrence.

The main questions is how Baha'i deal with the ancient religions of the world that had strange rituals and strange beliefs. I have no problem in believing that those religions were made up by the religious leaders in that culture and part of what they were used for was to control the people by giving them "divine" laws and rituals that must be performed.

Even today, like I mentioned in a earlier post, there are a lot of strange religions out there right now. And even a Baha'i should probably avoid them and not try to "consort" with them... unless you're an anthropologist and are studying them.

 

[loverofhumanity]

From the Baha'is I'm looking for deeper answers. My question dealt with religions that Baha'is rarely, if ever, mention. Since in the evolution of religions there seems to be a change between the belief in many Gods to one God. That is not the Baha'i concept of "progressive revelation." That, to me, is ancient people developing religion and using it to explain the world around them and their place in it. Even with early Judaism, their God was only their for them. All the other gods of the neighboring people were called false by the God of Israel.
So why would people leave those other religions and join the Baha'is? Is it because they see a "fufilment" or they see the Baha'i Faith makes more sense than their old religion?

Let's take Catholic Christian beliefs. The person is told they need to do a bunch of sacraments. If they commit a mortal sin and die without confessing it, they will go to hell. They believe Satan is lurking everywhere trying to tempt them. They believe Jesus, the Father and the Holy Ghost are all part of a Godhead. Mary has a prominent place in their beliefs.

Baha'is don't fulfill any of those. Baha'is tell a totally different story. No three part God, just one God. No Mary. No Satan. No confessing sins to priests. So why would a Catholic leave their old religion to join the Baha'i Faith? I really don't they are thinking, "Oh jeez, my Catholic beliefs are fulfilled in Baha'u'llah." I don't think so. Probably, "Geez, I never really believed what those priests were telling me. I like what the Baha'i Faith teaches much I think I'll sign a declaration card and join."

Your religion is a lot better and more sensible than most other religious beliefs. But, Baha'is can't answer the deeper questions. They can't show how all prophecies were fulfilled. Yet they say all prophecies have been fulfilled. And that is prophecies from all religions.

So it's just great that some Baha'is "consort" with people of all religions. But, how many of those Baha'i, deep down, know and believe that their religion is the truth for today and is desperately needed by those other people in those other religions? How many of those Baha'is know some verses from those other religions that they can use to cast doubt on the beliefs of the other religion and show how Baha'u'llah is being alluded to in their Holy Books? How many of those Baha'is, after making friends, would be just tickled pink to have those friends go to a Baha'i fireside and join the Baha'i Faith and dump their old, outdated, and from a Baha'i standpoint, probably false religious beliefs?

But what if it wasn't a Baha'i that befriended them? What about some cult? Or, even, let's say a more radical almost cult-like Christian group? But, you know, some Christian groups think the Baha'i Faith is a cult and a false religion and warns its people to be careful... so as not to get infected.

Its all about independent investigation of truth. For Christians there are many proofs and prophecies if they want to research. There’s ‘The Wine of Astonishment’ which explains the sacraments then Thief in the Night and the Book of Certitude and so on. I’ve read tons of stuff that’s why I’m so convinced but it’s up to other people to search for truth not for me to do their search for them.

Seek and you shall find not follow others conclusions. People who don’t want to investigate or study or research remain ignorant of their own choosing.

Also people have been so used to being spoon fed by religious leaders that they can’t think anymore and just blindly follow what the priest says. If he’s wrong they fall into the pit with him. Many, many proofs are available but too many to post on a forum.

So if people want proofs then they can research and investigate without the need for me to spoon feed them..

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So why would people leave those other religions and join the Baha'is? Is it because they see a "fufilment" or they see the Baha'i Faith makes more sense than their old religion?

They do not leave any Faith CG. They see their own Faith in a different frame of reference and then see there is a connection to all other Faiths and then also accept them.

The walls come down.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Your religion is a lot better and more sensible than most other religious beliefs. But, Baha'is can't answer the deeper questions. They can't show how all prophecies were fulfilled. Yet they say all prophecies have been fulfilled. And that is prophecies from all religions.

I do not know what to say, but to say to me the explanations were sound and logical and only get clearer the more I read them.

I have explained it as much as I can and can not see any other way to approach the subject.

Regards Tony

 

[Aupmanyav]

I have no problem in believing that 'those religions were made up by the religious leaders in that culture and part of what they were used for was to control the people' by giving them "divine" laws and rituals that must be performed.

If you can say that for ancient religions, why can't that be said of the upstart religions? Just because Bahaullah was visited by the Maid of Heaven? Which religion does not advocate universal love?

 

[CG Didymus]

If you can say that for ancient religions, why can't that be said of the upstart religions? Just because Bahaullah was visited by the Maid of Heaven? Which religion does not advocate universal love?

So many people say that God or an angel spoke to them. How can anyone know for sure? Baha'is say that the message of Baha'u'llah is their best proof that it is from God. I question them mostly because of their concept of "progressive revelation" and that they claim that all prophecies of all religions have been fulfilled by Baha'u'llah or The Bab.

I do think that many new religions have some very odd beliefs. Maybe not on the surface, but in their deeper beliefs. I might think them odd, but I can understand how when a person commits to a religion that the deeper things are usually accepted as true. This happens even with groups like Fundamentalist Christians. A person becomes a Christian and gets saved and then is expected to believe in a young Earth and a literal 6 day Creation. Does their "salvation" become dependent on a complete and total belief in a literal interpretation of the Bible and NT? As we all know, that literal belief leads into all kinds of problems with modern science and makes those Christians look foolish in the eyes of non-believers.

On "universal love" I would think most all religions would support and believe that, except it seems that love is withheld from people with different beliefs that go contrary to theirs at times.

 

[Vinayaka]

I do think that many new religions have some very odd beliefs.

On "universal love" I would think most all religions would support and believe that, except it seems that love is withheld from people with different beliefs that go contrary to theirs at times.

Unfortunately, sometimes those very odd beliefs are secretive, and it's almost too late when you do get to know them.

As for love, just as tolerance my way isn't tolerance at all, love my way isn't love at all.

 

[CG Didymus]

. We are encouraged to ‘consort with the followers of all religions with friendship and fellowship’ and again ‘“Consort with all religions with amity and concord,

In our Houses of Worship each week all over the world we read from the Holy Books of all Faiths Buddhism, Judaism, Christianity, Hinduism, Zoroastrianism, Islam as well as our own Faith and participate in interfaith.

We have a lot to learn from one and all and make a lot of mistakes that hopefully we can learn from. My understanding is that our duty is to promote the oneness of mankind by being kind and welcoming to all. Baha’is can’t and never will create world unity, world peace or a world civilisation by ourselves.

You know we have people right here with different religious beliefs. Why not "consort" with them right now? We've have Hindus from different sects. What do they believe? Do we know? What takes places at their services and rituals? We have different Christians... including Mormons and JW's. What do they believe and what are their services like? What can we learn from them? We've had Moslems that are Sunni and Shia. We've had a Sikh. We've had Jews, Buddhists and others. Do we consort with them with "concord" and "amity"?

Why don't we? Are we already prejudiced against them, because we are so committed to our beliefs? Can we really listen to what they believe and love and appreciate them and their religion? Or, do we tell them how they are wrong and how we are right? Unfortunately, even the Baha'is forfeit friendship and love with another person from another religion in favor of pointing out how the Baha'i Faith has newer and better beliefs. So let's consort with them without judgement and show them love and friendship.

 

[Vinayaka]

You know we have people right here with different religious beliefs. Why not "consort" with them right now? We've have Hindus from different sects. What do they believe? Do we know? What takes places at their services and rituals? We have different Christians... including Mormons and JW's. What do they believe and what are their services like? What can we learn from them? We've had Moslems that are Sunni and Shia. We've had a Sikh. We've had Jews, Buddhists and others. Do we consort with them with "concord" and "amity"?

Why don't we? Are we already prejudiced against them, because we are so committed to our beliefs? Can we really listen to what they believe and love and appreciate them and their religion? Or, do we tell them how they are wrong and how we are right? Unfortunately, even the Baha'is forfeit friendship and love with another person from another religion in favor of pointing out how the Baha'i Faith has newer and better beliefs. So let's consort with them without judgement and show them love and friendship.

It would go a very long way to changing the way I think about some folks if they came to my temple and even observed, let alone participated. Actions speak louder than words.