What are religionists being taught about other religions?

[TransmutingSoul]

So many people say that God or an angel spoke to them. How can anyone know for sure? Baha'is say that the message of Baha'u'llah is their best proof that it is from God. I question them mostly because of their concept of "progressive revelation" and that they claim that all prophecies of all religions have been fulfilled by Baha'u'llah or The Bab.

I do think that many new religions have some very odd beliefs. Maybe not on the surface, but in their deeper beliefs. I might think them odd, but I can understand how when a person commits to a religion that the deeper things are usually accepted as true. This happens even with groups like Fundamentalist Christians. A person becomes a Christian and gets saved and then is expected to believe in a young Earth and a literal 6 day Creation. Does their "salvation" become dependent on a complete and total belief in a literal interpretation of the Bible and NT? As we all know, that literal belief leads into all kinds of problems with modern science and makes those Christians look foolish in the eyes of non-believers.

On "universal love" I would think most all religions would support and believe that, except it seems that love is withheld from people with different beliefs that go contrary to theirs at times.

CG that is the choices we get to face. It is each of us that must justly investigate each claim and draw our own conclusions.

As for difficult concepts. If 90% of what you have discovered resonates with your soul, then the other 10% to which one does not understand, can be balanced in the 90% certainty. We realise that we do not know much at all really. At the same time in this age we have science, which in the past was not needed for certainty of Faith, it is now.

Science now breaks apart our built up predudices and superstitions and can give great assurance of Faith,no matter what Faith one may have.

A Christian could choose to drop all the superstition and look at the Bible with new eyes, given the new science they have also been gifted with. If they did they would not be looking for a material return of a 2000 year old Jesus to start with.

Thus it is with our choices in this life.

You know I wish you and every wonderful person in this planet, the best of choices that is in all our hearts.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

It would go a very long way to changing the way I think about some folks if they came to my temple and even observed, let alone participated. Actions speak louder than words.

If that was in Normanton, I would have observed on many occasions.

Likewise I am sure you would have joined us and observed as well.

Hope you are well and happy.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

If that was in Normanton, I would have observed on many occasions.

Likewise I am sure you would have joined us and observed as well.

Hope you are well and happy.

Regards Tony

We can take a virtual tour. We can listen to Vinayaka right now. We can go in right now with no preconceived ideas. No intent to push our religious ideas on him. We can see how he observes his religion and what he believes in and say how wonderful it is. How beautiful a belief. But it's been years and how little we know.

But, let's also take a more difficult one like Deeje. Can we go to a Bible study with the JW's and not have any negative preconceived ideas of what we are going to hear and what they are trying to do? I'll bet must wouldn't go. Heck, most of us don't answer the door when they come by, because we think we know their intent. They want to try and show us, in the Bible, how they are right. And most of us don't want to get infected.

But then, what if we go to a Baha'i fireside? What will we hear? The purpose and intent is to teach people about the Baha'i Faith. So there is some religious gatherings that are meant to try and make converts. They come knowing that. They come wanting to hear what that religion teaches. So can a "teaching" a new truth kind of religion, that doesn't proselytize, because that would be wrong, just consort with amity and not push their religion but just listen and respect the others? 'Cause I don't see it here on the forum. Baha'is have no problem telling people in other religions how and where they are wrong. And that ain't respecting or consorting with amity.

 

[Vinayaka]

We can take a virtual tour. We can listen to Vinayaka right now. We can go in right now with no preconceived ideas. No intent to push our religious ideas on him. We can see how he observes his religion and what he believes in and say how wonderful it is. How beautiful a belief. But it's been years and how little we know.

But, let's also take a more difficult one like Deeje. Can we go to a Bible study with the JW's and not have any negative preconceived ideas of what we are going to hear and what they are trying to do? I'll bet must wouldn't go. Heck, most of us don't answer the door when they come by, because we think we know their intent. They want to try and show us, in the Bible, how they are right. And most of us don't want to get infected.

But then, what if we go to a Baha'i fireside? What will we hear? The purpose and intent is to teach people about the Baha'i Faith. So there is some religious gatherings that are meant to try and make converts. They come knowing that. They come wanting to hear what that religion teaches. So can a "teaching" a new truth kind of religion, that doesn't proselytize, because that would be wrong, just consort with amity and not push their religion but just listen and respect the others? 'Cause I don't see it here on the forum. Baha'is have no problem telling people in other religions how and where they are wrong. And that ain't respecting or consorting with amity.

To be fair here, Tony might come to my place, and that's just a might, because we don't know the reality, but I wouldn't go to a Baha'i Fireside, or a Kingdom Hall, because I know that I'd be in for an earful of proselytising. However, anyone can come to a Hindu temple with a good likelihood of not getting proselytised at. It can happen though. It happened to Boss and me in a temple in Chicago. Despite the fact we were dressed in veshti and sari, this guy came over and started telling us how great his religion was. He stopped when another chap came by and told him we probably knew more about it that he did. Some people in all faiths are zealous to share. That 'some' varies dramatically.

 

[JesusKnowsYou]

A person becomes a Christian and gets saved and then is expected to believe in a young Earth and a literal 6 day Creation.

The original Biblical text actually does teach a young Earth or a Creation that took six 24-hour periods.

These are interpretations made based on some lazy translation.

Does their "salvation" become dependent on a complete and total belief in a literal interpretation of the Bible and NT?

No where in the Bible is that requirement mentioned.

I believe that they should take the Bible literally as long as it is translated correctly.

As we all know, that literal belief leads into all kinds of problems with modern science and makes those Christians look foolish in the eyes of non-believers.

[/QUOTE]
The closer we get to the original translation the fewer "problems" we encounter.

On "universal love" I would think most all religions would support and believe that, except it seems that love is withheld from people with different beliefs that go contrary to theirs at times.

It's all about practicing what is preached.

It's like those who claim to follow "science" yet also scream hysterically that we have only twelve more years to live.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

We can take a virtual tour. We can listen to Vinayaka right now. We can go in right now with no preconceived ideas. No intent to push our religious ideas on him. We can see how he observes his religion and what he believes in and say how wonderful it is. How beautiful a belief. But it's been years and how little we know.

But, let's also take a more difficult one like Deeje. Can we go to a Bible study with the JW's and not have any negative preconceived ideas of what we are going to hear and what they are trying to do? I'll bet must wouldn't go. Heck, most of us don't answer the door when they come by, because we think we know their intent. They want to try and show us, in the Bible, how they are right. And most of us don't want to get infected.

But then, what if we go to a Baha'i fireside? What will we hear? The purpose and intent is to teach people about the Baha'i Faith. So there is some religious gatherings that are meant to try and make converts. They come knowing that. They come wanting to hear what that religion teaches. So can a "teaching" a new truth kind of religion, that doesn't proselytize, because that would be wrong, just consort with amity and not push their religion but just listen and respect the others? 'Cause I don't see it here on the forum. Baha'is have no problem telling people in other religions how and where they are wrong. And that ain't respecting or consorting with amity.

I have also gone to the Local JW meetings

It is harder to get them to share prayers with us. The JW will not the AOG minister will.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

To be fair here, Tony might come to my place, and that's just a might, because we don't know the reality, but I wouldn't go to a Baha'i Fireside, or a Kingdom Hall, because I know that I'd be in for an earful of proselytising. However, anyone can come to a Hindu temple with a good likelihood of not getting proselytised at. It can happen though. It happened to Boss and me in a temple in Chicago. Despite the fact we were dressed in veshti and sari, this guy came over and started telling us how great his religion was. He stopped when another chap came by and told him we probably knew more about it that he did. Some people in all faiths are zealous to share. That 'some' varies dramatically.

With a Baha'i meeting the invite would be to share prayers and some readings from ones own faith, maybe on a chosen topic for the meeting.

The JW would find it hard for me to offer a prayer at their meetings, the AOG Minister would allow it.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

We can take a virtual tour. We can listen to Vinayaka right now. We can go in right now with no preconceived ideas. No intent to push our religious ideas on him. We can see how he observes his religion and what he believes in and say how wonderful it is. How beautiful a belief. But it's been years and how little we know.

But, let's also take a more difficult one like Deeje. Can we go to a Bible study with the JW's and not have any negative preconceived ideas of what we are going to hear and what they are trying to do? I'll bet must wouldn't go. Heck, most of us don't answer the door when they come by, because we think we know their intent. They want to try and show us, in the Bible, how they are right. And most of us don't want to get infected.

But then, what if we go to a Baha'i fireside? What will we hear? The purpose and intent is to teach people about the Baha'i Faith. So there is some religious gatherings that are meant to try and make converts. They come knowing that. They come wanting to hear what that religion teaches. So can a "teaching" a new truth kind of religion, that doesn't proselytize, because that would be wrong, just consort with amity and not push their religion but just listen and respect the others? 'Cause I don't see it here on the forum. Baha'is have no problem telling people in other religions how and where they are wrong. And that ain't respecting or consorting with amity.

We can and do read DIR posts. That is attending without comment. I see many posts that one could comment on.

Thus the open forum, it is what it is, discussion or debate.

Regards Tony

 

[Aupmanyav]

On "universal love" I would think most all religions would support and believe that, except it seems that love is withheld from people with different beliefs that go contrary to theirs at times.

Hinduism prohibits any distinction as far as love goes - the person may be following any scripture, revering any religious leader, believing is one God/Goddess, no God/Goddess or as many Gods/Goddesses as one wants, and never tries to proselytize.

 

[loverofhumanity]

You know we have people right here with different religious beliefs. Why not "consort" with them right now? We've have Hindus from different sects. What do they believe? Do we know? What takes places at their services and rituals? We have different Christians... including Mormons and JW's. What do they believe and what are their services like? What can we learn from them? We've had Moslems that are Sunni and Shia. We've had a Sikh. We've had Jews, Buddhists and others. Do we consort with them with "concord" and "amity"?

Why don't we? Are we already prejudiced against them, because we are so committed to our beliefs? Can we really listen to what they believe and love and appreciate them and their religion? Or, do we tell them how they are wrong and how we are right? Unfortunately, even the Baha'is forfeit friendship and love with another person from another religion in favor of pointing out how the Baha'i Faith has newer and better beliefs. So let's consort with them without judgement and show them love and friendship.

On the contrary, Baha’is revere other Faiths and religions. Do any of the Faiths you mention read in their churches the Baha’i Writings or from any other Faith? Yet in Baha’i Houses of Worship all over the world each week not only do we read from the Bible, the Quran, the Bhagavad-Gita, the Zend-Avesta, Buddhist Sacred Texts but if you look closely at each Baha’i House of Worship you’ll find engraved on our doors and walls are the symbols of each of these Faiths!!

We also accept the Founders of all the major Faiths and Their Holy Books.

Who else is doing this?

 

[Vinayaka]

With a Baha'i meeting the invite would be to share prayers and some readings from ones own faith, maybe on a chosen topic for the meeting.

The JW would find it hard for me to offer a prayer at their meetings, the AOG Minister would allow it.

Regards Tony

Which of course I couldn't do, as my version of Hinduism isn't scripture based. You'd have to go outside the Baha'i box as to what a religion is. But yeah, I'd go, if for some odd reason I got invited, and had some reassurance that I wouldn't be proselytised at. My fundamentalist neighbour from around the corner invited us to her church at least once a month for the first 5 years we lived here. I never went. Too much of a one way dialogue.

 

[Aupmanyav]

On the contrary, .. We also accept the Founders of all the major Faiths and Their Holy Books.

"But at the end, we do not see their propounders in the way their their followers see them, and want them to abandon their teachings for the teachings of the propounder of our religion, though it does not offer anything new - universal love being spouted by all religions. We say that the teaching of all other religions are corrupted, other than those of Islam (which are out-dated) and that of our religion. We are against religions which do not accept Allah as the one God (e.g., Hinduism), and against atheistic religions (e.g., Buddhism, Jainism). We are also against the LGBTQ. We declare Mirza Ghulam Mohammad of the Ahmadiyyas as an imposter and do not accept that he too was dispatched with a message from Allah."

Proof! Proof? As they say in Hindi, "Hāth kangan ko ārsi kyā, padhe-likhe ko fārsi kyā" (Those who have bangles of pure gold, they are not afraid of the touchstone; and those who are educated, they are not afraid of Persian language). Did not the Maid of Heaven appear to Bahaullah?

Is that true loverofhumanity?

 

[loverofhumanity]

"But at the end, we do not see their propounders in the way their their followers see them, and want them to abandon their teachings for the teachings of the propounder of our religion, though it does not offer anything new - universal love being spouted by all religions. We say that the teaching of all other religions are corrupted, other than those of Islam (which are out-dated) and that of our religion. We are against religions which do not accept the idea of one God (e.g., Hinduism), and against atheistic religions (e.g., Buddhism, Jainism). We are also against the LGBTQ."

Proof! Proof? As they say in Hindi, "Hāth kangan ko ārsi kyā, padhe-likhe ko fārsi kyā" (Those who have bangles of pure gold, they are not afraid of touchstone; and those who are educated, they are not afraid of Persian language). Did not the Maid of Heaven appear to Bahaullah?

Is that true loverofhumanity?

When I became a Baha’i I didn’t abandon my Christian Faith but added belief in Krishna and the Bhagavad-Gita to it, added Buddha and His teachings to my beliefs, added Muhammad and the Quran to what I believe, added Zoroaster and His teachings and added science and reason and love for humanity to it all. There was no ‘abandoning’ but including all the rest and embracing the truth in all religions not just my own.

There is truth everywhere even in philosophies which claim to not include God.

Actually one of my very favourite sayings is from the Dhammapada of the Buddha which reads:

“ A man may have conquered ten times ten thousand men, but He is the true cinqurere who conquers his own self” (chapter the Thousands )

 

[Aupmanyav]

You don't accept Jesus as the son of God. You have abandoned your faith. One can be a Bahai only by abandoning his own faith. Why do you hesitate or refuse to say that? Why this subterfuge? It is OK if you have changed your faith, that is your right and prerogative.

 

[loverofhumanity]

You don't accept Jesus as the son of God. You have abandoned your faith. One can be a Bahai only by abandoning his own faith. Why do you hesitate or refuse to say that? Why this subterfuge? It is OK if you have changed your faith, that is your right and prerogative.

No. In the Bible it says God is Spirit and so Jesus cannot be the physical Son of God but He can be the spiritual Son of God. We fully accept that. No abandonment at sill.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

You don't accept Jesus as the son of God. You have abandoned your faith. One can be a Bahai only by abandoning his own faith. Why do you hesitate or refuse to say that? Why this subterfuge? It is OK if you have changed your faith, that is your right and prerogative.

Not sure why this would matter to you, as you have chosen the position of no God and no Manifestations of God.

As a Baha'i I see one becomes stronger in their previous faith, they see that it was indeed a world embracing Message they had embraced. From a Christian background, one becomes stronger in certitude, but most importantly, also a practicing Christian, one willing to turn the other cheek.

"The Founder of the Christian Faith is designated by Bahá’u’lláh as the ‘Spirit of God,’ is proclaimed as the One Who ‘appeared out of the breath of the Holy Ghost,’ and is even extolled as the ‘Essence of the Spirit.’ His mother is described as ‘that veiled and immortal, that most beauteous, countenance,’ and the station of her Son eulogized as a ‘station which hath been exalted above the imaginings of all that dwell on earth,’ whilst Peter is recognized as one whom God has caused ‘the mysteries of wisdom and of utterance to flow out of his mouth.’”

We see Jesus was Christ in the terms of a 'Manifestation of God' or 'Spirit of God' and we see the founders of all the Worlds Major Faiths in this same light.

What greater way to drop one's predudices but to embrace the good in all Faiths. By this action alone, it creates a balance, as one has to reconsider certain aspects of Faith that they once held as an infallible part of that Faith.

RegardsTony

 

[Aupmanyav]

No. In the Bible it says God is Spirit and so Jesus cannot be the physical Son of God but He can be the spiritual Son of God. We fully accept that. No abandonment at sill.

The spirit breathed into Virgin Mary, immaculate birth. Do you propose otherwise?
If you do, then you are not a Christian. You have abandoned your first faith and become a Bahai. Don't the Bahais have equally unbelievable stories (The Maid of Heaven)? You believe that. Don't you? Then what is wrong with believing that spirit breathing into Virgin Mary? If you do not believe in the visit of the Maid of Heaven, then you don't believe in the divine mission of Bahaullah and you are not even a Bahai. You are accusing Bahaullah of being a lier. Tying yourself into knots?
Your changing your faith is not a problem.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The spirit breathed into Virgin Mary, immaculate birth. Do you propose otherwise?

I see the story shows how a man, that appears to be born in the natural way, is actually born not of the Human Spirit but of the Holy Spirit.

I see the story supports spiritual acceptance and understandings. After all, if we accept and see that story miraculously, then what about Adam who had no father or mother.

Regards Tony

 

[Aupmanyav]

What greater way to drop one's prejudices but to embrace the good in all Faiths. By this action alone, it creates a balance, as one has to reconsider certain aspects of Faith that they once held as an infallible part of that Faith.

Right. Drop your own prejudices that there is one and only one Allah. Drop your own prejudice that Bahaullah was visited by any Maid of Heaven, it was only his hallucination. Drop your own prejudice that Bahaullah had any 'divine' mission.

 

[loverofhumanity]

The spirit breathed into Virgin Mary, immaculate birth. Do you propose otherwise?
If you do, then you are not a Christian. You have abandoned your first faith and become a Bahai. Don't the Bahais have equally unbelievable stories (The Maid of Heaven)? You believe that. Don't you? Then what is wrong with believing that spirit breathing into Virgin Mary? If you do not believe in the visit of the Maid of Heaven, then you don't believe in the divine mission of Bahaullah and you are not even a Bahai. You are accusing Bahaullah of being a lier. Tying yourself into knots?

But we do believe the spirit was breathed into Mary and Jesus was born of the Holy Spirit. You must have misunderstood or I wasn’t clear enough? Below is our official belief regarding the Divinity of Christ and the Bible and the Virgin Birth as well as Peter.

As to the position of Christianity, let it be stated without any hesitation or equivocation that its divine origin is unconditionally acknowledged, that the Sonship and Divinity of Jesus Christ are fearlessly asserted, that the divine inspiration of the Gospel is fully recognized, that the reality of the mystery of the Immaculacy of the Virgin Mary is confessed, and the primacy of Peter, the Prince of the Apostles, is upheld and defended.(Baha’i Writings)