What are some of your thoughts about Pacifists?

[IndigoChild5559]

I have even this year stopped two fights and one assault on a Muslim woman, only by going between the people, stopping the attacker from being able to attack. Spoken to them, and yes got a fist or two but it is worth it. for me anyway.
I do not need to fight or use any force to stop others from being idiots

You were lucky. Usually you cannot stop a violent attack unless you yourself use force, since the attacker has already shown that they themselves are perfectly fine with using force. Again, you just lucked out.

 

[Heyo]

You were lucky. Usually you cannot stop a violent attack unless you yourself use force, since the attacker has already shown that they themselves are perfectly fine with using force. Again, you just lucked out.

Many bullies only attack those who are weaker. By stepping in you can often stop bullying without the use of force. Just make sure you are either a very good actor or really committed to defending the other person.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Long Walk To Freedom, 1994.

I stand corrected.

History will still remember him though, principally as a man of peace who forgave his persecutors.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Many bullies only attack those who are weaker. By stepping in you can often stop bullying without the use of force. Just make sure you are either a very good actor or really committed to defending the other person.

I'm very familiar with the fact that bullies pick on those who are weaker or fragile in spirit. But if you see a woman being raped at knifepoint, and you interfere, you will likely get knifed yourself. They have already shown themselves willing to use violence.

 

[YoursTrue]

In another OP started by @firedragon , I answered his question, and in his OP I write about being a pacifist.
That made me think, how do other people react to someone who is a pacifist?

So the question may be, what is your view on pacifism and or pacifists?
Are you afraid of them?
Curious to why they think as they do?
Do pacifists create a danger to you as a person?

Do you trust people who identify as nonviolent and pacifistic?

NB: Discussion forum not Debate

I am answering in the form of a discussion about your thoughts or questions as expressed re: pacifism. When I mentioned that many calling themselves Christian and wearing a cross on another thread will fight and kill each other, I was told in a general way by another poster, that it is the apparent disposition of people, being sinners, to kill one another. Not his exact words, but that's what I got from his post there defending the idea that many calling themselves Christians will kill each other.
Just to clarify, however, I am not a pacifist, but I will not kill my enemy because Jesus said that his (true) followers should love their enemies. There are other reasons, perhaps it's not what you asked, but that is my thought in reference to your post.

 

[Spirit of Light]

I am answering in the form of a discussion about your thoughts or questions as expressed re: pacifism. When I mentioned that many calling themselves Christian and wearing a cross on another thread will fight and kill each other, I was told in a general way by another poster, that it is the apparent disposition of people, being sinners, to kill one another. Not his exact words, but that's what I got from his post there defending the idea that many calling themselves Christians will kill each other.
Just to clarify, however, I am not a pacifist, but I will not kill my enemy because Jesus said that his (true) followers should love their enemies. There are other reasons, perhaps it's not what you asked, but that is my thought in reference to your post.

Jesus was a nice dude with his thoughts On this topic I do agree with him

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Just to clarify, however, I am not a pacifist, but I will not kill my enemy because Jesus said that his (true) followers should love their enemies.

Are you loving your enemies when you enable them to do evil?

 

[YoursTrue]

Are you loving your enemies when you enable them to do evil?

Enabling them to do evil because I won't kill those I don't know? Sorry, but I don't have a gun to protect myself or my family. There are reasons for that. (Guns can be misused, mistakes happen. And they can be turned on others.) Like I said, I am not a pacifist, and you or I cannot really remove wicked people from the face of the earth. Only God can, and He will.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Enabling them to do evil because I won't kill those I don't know? Sorry, but I don't have a gun to protect myself or my family. There are reasons for that. (Guns can be misused, mistakes happen. And they can be turned on others.) Like I said, I am not a pacifist, and you or I cannot really remove wicked people from the face of the earth. Only God can, and He will.

Yes. When someone is doing grave evil, such as attacking and raping someone, or trying to kill them, and you do not intervene (and I mean willing to use violence to stop them) then you are part of the problem. This is why I say that Pacifism is immoral.

The whole point of WW2 was that two evil countries were trying to take over the world, and willing to use violence to do so, as well as to exterminate those they considered sub-human. It would have been grossly immoral if the allies had not fought back against them. That generation which fought nazi germany and imperial Japan were a great generation -- they had their heads on straight, and didn't buy into this pacifism nonsense.

And you should say thank you, because if it were not for them, you would be speaking German and having a hell of a life.

 

[YoursTrue]

Yes. When someone is doing grave evil, such as attacking and raping someone, or trying to kill them, and you do not intervene (and I mean willing to use violence to stop them) then you are part of the problem. This is why I say that Pacifism is immoral.

The whole point of WW2 was that two evil countries were trying to take over the world, and willing to use violence to do so, as well as to exterminate those they considered sub-human. It would have been grossly immoral if the allies had not fought back against them. That generation which fought nazi germany and imperial Japan were a great generation -- they had their heads on straight, and didn't buy into this pacifism nonsense.

And you should say thank you, because if it were not for them, you would be speaking German and having a hell of a life.

I am not a pacifist. Only God can remove evil people from the face of the earth. If He calls me to war as He did the Israelites during the times of David and other kings, I will go. But that's not happening now. Can't speak of arguing this because it's very clear to me. Meanwhile, millions of Jews died. And others during WW2. Not sure what Maimonides believed about the benefit of killing those declared to be enemies, but -- you do believe in a resurrection, don't you?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I am not a pacifist. Only God can remove evil people from the face of the earth. If He calls me to war as He did the Israelites during the times of David and other kings, I will go. But that's not happening now. Can't speak of arguing this because it's very clear to me. Meanwhile, millions of Jews died. And others during WW2. Not sure what Maimonides believed about the benefit of killing those declared to be enemies, but -- you do believe in a resurrection, don't you?

You are wrong. You and I can remove an evil person from the face of the earth. And there are times when we are called to do exactly that. To do otherwise under certain circumstances would enable them to do more evil. That would make us complicit.

"All that it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."

 

[stvdv]

The commitment to non-violence is a good one

True

The commitment to non-violence is a good one but not to the point where a refusal to fight abets a profound evil

True, but only because it's never good to abet a profound evil.

"Non violence" is never related to abet a profound evil !!!

 

[stvdv]

My answer to all your questions is 'no'.
As to what I think about pacifists - they are impractical and bound to fail.

Pacifists as in adhering to Ahimsa are not bound to fail

 

[IndigoChild5559]

True


True, but only because it's never good to abet a profound evil.

"Non violence" is never related to abet a profound evil !!!

What a naive thing to say. If the allies had not fought the axis powers in WW2, you would be goosestepping in a Judenrein fascist state.

 

[stvdv]

I am not a pacifist. Only God can remove evil people from the face of the earth. If He calls me to war as He did the Israelites during the times of David and other kings, I will go. But that's not happening now. Can't speak of arguing this because it's very clear to me. Meanwhile, millions of Jews died. And others during WW2. Not sure what Maimonides believed about the benefit of killing those declared to be enemies, but -- you do believe in a resurrection, don't you?

You are wrong

NO. You are

You and I can remove an evil person from the face of the earth.

False

And there are times when we are called to do exactly that.

Does not apply to me

To do otherwise under certain circumstances would enable them to do more evil. That would make us complicit

Speak for yourself, I would say

"All that it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."

False

 

[stvdv]

True

True, but only because it's never good to abet a profound evil.

"Non violence" is never related to abet a profound evil !!!

What a naive thing to say. If the allies had not fought the axis powers in WW2, you would be goosestepping in a Judenrein fascist state.

Truth is truth, to think it's naive is naive

 

[YoursTrue]

You are wrong. You and I can remove an evil person from the face of the earth. And there are times when we are called to do exactly that. To do otherwise under certain circumstances would enable them to do more evil. That would make us complicit.

"All that it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."

I understand how you feel. Please tell me something. Do you believe that God made a flood to kill off most of the residents of the earth during Noah's time?

 

[Aupmanyav]

Pacifists as in adhering to Ahimsa are not bound to fail

Ahimsa is different from pacifism. Pacifism is appeasement, which was tried by Krishna, but it failed.

"sva-dharmam api cāvekṣya, na vikampitum arhasi;
dharmyād hi yuddhah shreyo anyat, kṣatriyasya na vidyate." BG.2.31

Considering your duty (as a kṣatriya), there is no need to hesitate; no engagement better than fighting for dharma exists for a kshatriya.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Truth is truth, to think it's naive is naive

This is the second post where you simply tell me I'm wrong, but give no arguments for your POV. Oh well.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I understand how you feel. Please tell me something. Do you believe that God made a flood to kill off most of the residents of the earth during Noah's time?

Normally I would answer, but I find the abrupt change in topic away from the OP to be far too blatant.