What are the best arguments in favor of theism and against atheism?

[Jenny Collins]

First of all behavior can discredit them both! If I see a believer act badly, it makes me question their claims that their world view represents a God of love!

On the other hand, when an atheist points out bad behavior in religion, says that atheists don't need God to act well, and then don't act well, it hurts their agenda! As a believer in God, when I see atheists act poorly, I think they do need God! When I see believers act poorly, I think they need God too! They believe and it doesn't motivate them for good!

So I think that all of those people who want to act poorly should be ignored and focus on the ones who want to actually be fair!

Then I think that fair discussion can begin, and you can come to a conclusion whether God exists or not

 

[ImmortalFlame]

All your questions have been addressed, the problem is you do not understand what is being said to you.

That's a nonsense excuse. You've not answered a single question I've asked, you've just written a bunch of abstractions and re-stated your position. I've asked you very specific questions. Why are you unable to answer them?

In order to find out what prerequisite understanding is lacking on your part that is responsible for your not understanding what is being said to you, we need to explore a bit. So let me ask you, do you know the difference between a conceptualizing mind and a non-conceptualizing mind? Do you know the difference between the manifest universe and the unmanifest universe?

I think it's incredibly rich that you patronize me because of your inability to answer a couple of simple questions.

I guess you haven't actually thought your position through well enough to actually have answers, and I'm definitely not answering a single question of yours when you clearly refuse to answer a single one of mine. I suggest you think hard about your position, because you obviously haven't done so.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

That's a nonsense excuse. You've not answered a single question I've asked, you've just written a bunch of abstractions and re-stated your position. I've asked you very specific questions. Why are you unable to answer them?

I think it's incredibly rich that you patronize me because of your inability to answer a couple of simple questions.

I guess you haven't actually thought your position through well enough to actually have answers, and I'm definitely not answering a single question of yours when you clearly refuse to answer a single one of mine. I suggest you think hard about your position, because you obviously haven't done so.

I've have explained that the reality represented by the concept of God and the concept of the Universe is one and the same.

People can choose either of those or many more concepts to represent this one ultimate reality, only the names are different.


Do you understand?

 

[ImmortalFlame]

I've have explained that the reality represented by the concept of God and the concept of the Universe is one and the same.

People can choose either of those or many more concepts to represent this one ultimate reality, only the names are different.


Do you understand?

Do you not understand that "The concepts of God and the Universe are one and the same" is not an adequate answer to the question "Why consider the concept of God and the Universe one and the same"?

Are you serious?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Do you not understand that "The concepts of God and the Universe are one and the same" is not an adequate answer to the question "Why consider the concept of God and the Universe one and the same"?

Are you serious?

OMG....you truly aren't purposely being obtuse, you really do have a reading comprehension problem. Read my posts, nowhere did I imply the concept of God and the Universe is one and the same, quite the contrary.

In future, to mitigate against wasting time, please quote my exact words that you think are in error, and then I may know what your misunderstanding is.

 

[ChristineM]

Though you though not, reality itself is within, think not about it and it will reveal itself in due course if your heart is pure..

That my dear is not reality, it is imagination.

 

[ChristineM]

OMG....you truly aren't purposely being obtuse, you really do have a reading comprehension problem. Read my posts, nowhere did I imply the concept of God and the Universe is one and the same, quite the contrary.

In future, to mitigate against wasting time, please quote my exact words that you think are in error, and then I may know what your misunderstanding is.

I must intercede

I quote you " What is called the universe by a conceptualizing human mind, is called God manifest..."

So yes, you more than implied, you gave a direct statement

 

[Ben Dhyan]

That my dear is not reality, it is imagination.

You are welcome to your opinion, opinions do not have any affect on actual reality though..

 

[ChristineM]

You are welcome to your opinion, opinions do not have any affect on actual reality though..

Physician heal thyself

While you are at it, where is this evidence you steadfastly refuse to provide

 

[Ben Dhyan]

I must intercede

I quote you " What is called the universe by a conceptualizing human mind, is called God manifest..."

So yes, you more than implied, you gave a direct statement

You too dear Christine, lack reading comprehension, Here, I will parse it for you....the subject of the quote refers to the names given for the one thing, one conceptual name for it is 'universe' and the other is 'God manifest', these two conceptual names are clearly not the same. I have also frequently mentioned during the course of this discussion concepts like Brahman, Tao, Universal being, etc. that are all meant to represent the one underlying reality of existence.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Physician heal thyself

While you are at it, where is this evidence you steadfastly refuse to provide

While I like the saying, I fail to see how it is relevant to what I posted, opinions can not change reality..

As for your desire for evidence of the reality represented by the different concepts, 'suck it and see' is the only path that exists, for each soul is an indivisible aspect of the one, so that is the most important factor in being to apprehend the forest for the trees..

 

[Ben Avraham]

What are the best arguments in favor of Theism and against Atheism?

The best arguments against Atheism is to ask the logical question if the Universe caused itself to exist. If atheists don't give up the debate from the start, you bring up the argument of generic causality and they are out.

 

[ChristineM]

The best arguments against Atheism is to ask the logical question if the Universe caused itself to exist. If atheists don't give up the debate from the start, you bring up the argument of generic causality and they are out.

Total nonsense based on your ignorance of atheism

Atheism : disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.

Other than that all bets are off.

However if you want to logically and honestly discuss cosmology, abiogenesis, biological evolution or genetics feel free to make a start.

 

[ChristineM]

While I like the saying, I fail to see how it is relevant to what I posted, opinions can not change reality..

As for your desire for evidence of the reality represented by the different concepts, 'suck it and see' is the only path that exists, for each soul is an indivisible aspect of the one, so that is the most important factor in being to apprehend the forest for the trees..

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you, missed your post here. But having now read it is see i have missed nothing other than the typical ben d straw man

 

[Milton Platt]

The best arguments against Atheism is to ask the logical question if the Universe caused itself to exist. If atheists don't give up the debate from the start, you bring up the argument of generic causality and they are out.

Pardon, but that is a question, not an argument.

Also:

It is not necessary to know if or how the universe began to reject a god claim. You only need to lack belief that the claim is true. This does not in any way mean the claim is not true, but that you do not believe it is. Belief can be changed with sufficient evidence to demonstrate the truthfulness of the claim.

It must be realized that a theist cannot demonstrate how the universe began, either.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you, missed your post here. But having now read it is see i have missed nothing other than the typical ben d straw man

It is no strawman, if you want to become a great artist, you must devote yourself to it, this principle applies to the path to all goals, religious or secular.

So you want evidence of the reality represented by the concept of God and yet when pointed out that the answer you desire will be realized only if you devote yourself to the goal, you decline. And that is fine, all the best whatever your destiny.

 

[ChristineM]

It is no strawman, if you want to become a great artist, you must devote yourself to it, this principle applies to the path to all goals, religious or secular.

So you want evidence of the reality represented by the concept of God and yet when pointed out that the answer you desire will be realized only if you devote yourself to the goal, you decline. And that is fine, all the best whatever your destiny.

And you answer with yet another straw man, my guess is you don't even realise you are doing it.

So not real then but imaginary, i really do wish you would be honest with your words.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

And you answer with yet another straw man, my guess is you don't even realise you are doing it.

So not real then but imaginary, i really do wish you would be honest with your words.

ChristineM, it is so obvious on this and other threads where we have exchanges, you have a closed mind to anything I say that threatens your atheistic beliefs. That is your where you are at, and I have no intention to try and change them, so all the best for what lies ahead on the journey of realizing your glorious destiny.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Romans 1:19-20New International Version (NIV)

since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

The rational behind this sir, is when we look around us - these things just did not happen.
There had to be a reason why and who.

If the existence of God is obvious, then why are theists so generally awful at giving reasonable arguments for God?

 

[MJFlores]

If the existence of God is obvious, then why are theists so generally awful at giving reasonable arguments for God?

Even the theists don't even know who their God is.

Most say their god looks like this

It looks like some 3 faced spaghetti monster, if you ask me.

But my God is recorded in the Bible. He has no shadow, he has been alive forever, did not die, cannot be seen and the King from eternity to eternity.

Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever. Amen. 1 Timothy 1:17