What are the best arguments in favor of theism and against atheism?

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Even the theists don't even know who their God is.

Most say their god looks like this

It looks like some 3 faced spaghetti monster, if you ask me.

But my God is recorded in the Bible. He has no shadow, he has been alive forever, did not die, cannot be seen and the King from eternity to eternity.

Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever. Amen. 1 Timothy 1:17

That's lovely, but not really relevant to my question, since you haven't established that your god exists, either.

If he's so obvious, your task should be easy. Why haven't you managed to do it?

 

[Ben Avraham]

Total nonsense based on your ignorance of atheism. Atheism : disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods. Other than that all bets are off. However if you want to logically and honestly discuss cosmology, abiogenesis, biological evolution or genetics feel free to make a start.

Wait a minute Christine! I said "Genetics Causality." And, if you are a theist, to get into the questions about the theme of Generic Causality, we will only be wasting our time. Anyway, let me give it a try. First question, did you cause yourself to exist or were you caused to exist by someone else that preceded you? Since you cannot give me a face-to-face response, obviously, your answer is positive in the sense that you were caused to exist by someone else aka your parents. How about your parents? Their parents, of course! And their parents? The point is that, if we keep dissecting the concept of generic causality further back, into the very first couple of parents. Since they could not have caused themselves to exist, it is only obvious that they were caused by the first of all causes, aka the Primal Cause. That's what I call an evidence for the existence of the Primal Cause through Generic Causality.

Now, leaving Generic Causality alone for a while, can you tell me what caused the Universe to exist? Logically, you must agree with me that the Universe could not have caused itself to exist. Hence, it is equally obvious that it was caused to exist by something or someone else that preceded it, aka the Primal Cause. The very same Cause that caused the beginning of Generic Causality. Now, it is your turn to feel free and proceed from here.

 

[Ben Avraham]

Pardon, but that is a question, not an argument. Also: It is not necessary to know if or how the universe began to reject a god claim. You only need to lack belief that the claim is true. This does not in any way mean the claim is not true, but that you do not believe it is. Belief can be changed with sufficient evidence to demonstrate the truthfulness of the claim. It must be realized that a theist cannot demonstrate how the universe began, either.

Pardon me yourself Milton, I believe I have asked no question but explained what the argument would be to stop an atheist in his or her illusion to assume he or she can prove the non-existence of the Primal Cause. Now, to believe or not to believe is up to either the theist or the atheist because either one has the right to a free choice. We all have what is called Freewill. Now, the freedom to deny each other is subject to the duty to answer questions. That's where the argument starts. In my case, I am all ears.

 

[ChristineM]

ChristineM, it is so obvious on this and other threads where we have exchanges, you have a closed mind to anything I say that threatens your atheistic beliefs. That is your where you are at, and I have no intention to try an change them, so all the best for what lies ahead on the journey of realizing your glorious destiny.

Sorry bud, an example of a closed mind is one that refuses to consider science because he does not understanding it so instead puts forward irrelevant arguments and stomps his foot in indignation.

And then opts for hyperbole as a point scorer.

P.s. i do nor lie, unlike you i have no god to lie for

 

[ChristineM]

Wait a minute Christine! I said "Genetics Causality." And, if you are a theist, to get into the questions about the theme of Generic Causality, we will only be wasting our time. Anyway, let me give it a try. First question, did you cause yourself to exist or were you caused to exist by someone else that preceded you? Since you cannot give me a face-to-face response, obviously, your answer is positive in the sense that you were caused to exist by someone else aka your parents. How about your parents? Their parents, of course! And their parents? The point is that, if we keep dissecting the concept of generic causality further back, into the very first couple of parents. Since they could not have caused themselves to exist, it is only obvious that they were caused by the first of all causes, aka the Primal Cause. That's what I call an evidence for the existence of the Primal Cause through Generic Causality.

Now, leaving Generic Causality alone for a while, can you tell me what caused the Universe to exist? Logically, you must agree with me that the Universe could not have caused itself to exist. Hence, it is equally obvious that it was caused to exist by something or someone else that preceded it, aka the Primal Cause. The very same Cause that caused the beginning of Generic Causality. Now, it is your turn to feel free and proceed from here.

So no defence of your lies about atheism. Fair enough.

Your argument on genetic causality is flawed because it does not account for evolution. Evolution is proven in several ways so ignoring it in an argument on genetics is something of a waste of time.

I can give you 27 theories on how the universe came into existence, each is mathematically possible. How about you?

P.s. logic has nothing to do with it, the laws from which logic are derived did not exist so are irrelevant.

 

[Ben Avraham]

So no defence of your lies about atheism. Fair enough.

Your argument on genetic causality is flawed because it does not account for evolution. Evolution is proven in several ways so ignoring it in an argument on genetics is something of a waste of time.

I can give you 27 theories on how the universe came into existence, each is mathematically possible. How about you?

P.s. logic has nothing to do with it, the laws from which logic are derived did not exist so are irrelevant.

So, Logic is irrelevant and, only the lies of theories remain? Regarding your kind of evolution, it is obvious that I can't accept the lies that we have come from the monkey. Theories are all lies to me. There is no logic for them. Next time start your replies without ad hominem and I will comply with honor.

 

[ChristineM]

So, Logic is irrelevant and, only the lies of theories remain? Regarding your kind of evolution, it is obvious that I can't accept the lies that we have come from the monkey. Theories are all lies to me. There is no logic for them. Next time start your replies without ad hominem and I will comply with honor.

What lies are you referring to? The ones that Sony include god magic and mythology?

Evolution is proven without doubt, that you can't accept it simply means you confine yourself to the ignorance of the past

And still you provide no defence of your lies about atheism. That is not ad hom, that is fact.

 

[FunctionalAtheist]

An argument is only an argument if it has the power to change people's minds. Nothing can change people's minds about the existence of God therefore there are no arguments.

Not true.

 

[MJFlores]

That's lovely, but not really relevant to my question, since you haven't established that your god exists, either.

If he's so obvious, your task should be easy. Why haven't you managed to do it?

I found out that I don't need to establish, someone who is already established.

People will have differing thoughts on whether he exist or doesn't.

However what I know is nothing can exist with out someone made it happen. Something was made because someone made it. Everything exist because someone did it.

 

[Milton Platt]

Pardon me yourself Milton, I believe I have asked no question but explained what the argument would be to stop an atheist in his or her illusion to assume he or she can prove the non-existence of the Primal Cause. Now, to believe or not to believe is up to either the theist or the atheist because either one has the right to a free choice. We all have what is called Freewill. Now, the freedom to deny each other is subject to the duty to answer questions. That's where the argument starts. In my case, I am all ears.

If you check the post I responded to you will see that you said that the best argument was...and then you stated a question instead of making an argument.

I see no reason to attempt to prove a negative. Does everything I cannot personally prove does not exist therefore exist?

If you are making the claim that such a thing exists, the burden is on you to support the claim. The fact that a person does not believe your claim carries no such burden of proof. There are those who do make a positive claim that no god...or whatever name you wish to use, actually exists, of course...and those folks do indeed carry the same burden of proof. What is a primal cause as opposed to a supernatural deity? Not a snarky question...I came late to the thread. Are you trying to assert something other than one of the theistic gods?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

However what I know is nothing can exist with out someone made it happen. Something was made because someone made it. Everything exist because someone did it.

So God was created?

 

[MJFlores]

So God was created?

If a god is created then he is not God.

People believe in "the Big Bang" even they did not see that happen and they weren't there when it happened, now that is FAITH isn't it? Believing in something that everything was created out of nothing. That everything we see came from nothing.

By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible. Hebrews 11:3

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

If a god is created then he is not God.

So then God does not exist?

Remember what you said:

"However what I know is nothing can exist with out someone made it happen. Something was made because someone made it. Everything exist because someone did it."

By your own words, if God exists, then someone made God. So who made God?

Edit: or are you suggesting that God can't exist?

 

[MJFlores]

So then God does not exist?

Remember what you said:

"However what I know is nothing can exist with out someone made it happen. Something was made because someone made it. Everything exist because someone did it."

By your own words, if God exists, then someone made God. So who made God?

Edit: or are you suggesting that God can't exist?

What I know is what is written:

“You are my witnesses,” declares the Lord, “and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me. Isaiah 43:10

Should I have to look for someone who made god then another god then another god wouldn't that be eternal and endless? But he said that so...he is it!

Revelation 1:8
“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.”

What is Alpha?
Definition of ALPHA

What is Omega?
Definition of OMEGA

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Should I have to look for someone who made god then another god then another god wouldn't that be eternal and endless?

That's the implication of what you said earlier. I agree that it's absurd; that's why I reject your claim.

But he said that so...he is it!

So then you were wrong when you said this:

However what I know is nothing can exist with out someone made it happen. Something was made because someone made it. Everything exist because someone did it.

 

[MJFlores]

That's the implication of what you said earlier. I agree that it's absurd; that's why I reject your claim.

So then you were wrong when you said this:

Assuming a person does not believe in God yet believe that everything happened by a multiple series of accidents, at least that his faith by accident.

But for me, God is recorded in his Bible:

Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever. Amen. 1 Timothy 1:17

Further, I believe everybody dies and everybody will rise again - no matter what their beliefs are whether atheists or theists. That really scares me, so I rather be prepared.

That is why I believe Jesus is Lord

That is why I believe Jesus is not God
because God raised him from the dead

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Assuming a person does not believe in God yet believe that everything happened by a multiple series of accidents, at least that his faith by accident.

But for me, God is recorded in his Bible:

Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever. Amen. 1 Timothy 1:17

Further, I believe everybody dies and everybody will rise again - no matter what their beliefs are whether atheists or theists. That really scares me, so I rather be prepared.

That is why I believe Jesus is Lord

That is why I believe Jesus is not God
because God raised him from the dead

That's all lovely, but it doesn't change the fact that you've contradicted yourself.

 

[Ben Avraham]

If you check the post I responded to you will see that you said that the best argument was...and then you stated a question instead of making an argument. I see no reason to attempt to prove a negative. Does everything I cannot personally prove does not exist therefore exist? If you are making the claim that such a thing exists, the burden is on you to support the claim. The fact that a person does not believe your claim carries no such burden of proof. There are those who do make a positive claim that no god...or whatever name you wish to use, actually exists, of course...and those folks do indeed carry the same burden of proof. What is a primal cause as opposed to a supernatural deity? Not a snarky question...I came late to the thread. Are you trying to assert something other than one of the theistic gods?

As you say above, you have no reason to prove the Negative. I believe I did not ask you to prove the negative but the positive. Do you believe that the Universe exist? I am sure you do because you and I are parts of the Universe. That's positive. So, please, prove to me that the Universe caused itself to exist or was caused by something else that preceded it. This is a request to prove the positive; not the negative. You know you exist as part of the Universe. So, the burden is upon you too to prove if you caused yourself to exist as part of the Universe or if you were caused by something else that preceded you. The Primal Cause is the One Who caused the Universe to exist. Can you prove the opposite? If you can, I am all ears. Supernatural deities can be claimed by the Greeks, Egyptians and all sort of pagan polytheists in the world.

 

[ChristineM]

As you say above, you have no reason to prove the Negative. I believe I did not ask you to prove the negative but the positive. Do you believe that the Universe exist? I am sure you do because you and I are parts of the Universe. That's positive. So, please, prove to me that the Universe caused itself to exist or was caused by something else that preceded it. This is a request to prove the positive; not the negative. You know you exist as part of the Universe. So, the burden is upon you too to prove if you caused yourself to exist as part of the Universe or if you were caused by something else that preceded you. The Primal Cause is the One Who caused the Universe to exist. Can you prove the opposite? If you can, I am all ears. Supernatural deities can be claimed by the Greeks, Egyptians and all sort of pagan polytheists in the world.

Been here before, we know you can't prove god magic, hence the reason you ask the impossible of your opponent's. Its the only way you feel you can cover your butt.

And still you have not provided a defence of your lies about atheism.

 

[Ben Avraham]

What lies are you referring to? The ones that Sony include god magic and mythology? Evolution is proven without doubt, that you can't accept it simply means you confine yourself to the ignorance of the past. And still you provide no defence of your lies about atheism. That is not ad hom, that is fact.

Your assumption that mine were lies not to agree with atheists. Please, read your post #326. That's what is implied in it. What Evolution is proved without doubt, that your DNA shows evidence of the link with the primate? I have checked mine and I did not find that evidence. Ignorance of the past! Whose past, that of the one who proved Evolution without doubt? If you are trusting so hard in Darwin, be aware that his theory of Evolution has already found its way into the ignorance of the past.