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What came before the Big Bang?
- Thread starter yoda89
- Start date
Thief
Rogue Theologian
And I believe that rotation was set in motion BEFORE the bang!
Otherwise the expanding event would have been a simple hollow explosion.
No rotation.
I believe it was the pinch and snap of God's fingers in play!
Thief
Rogue Theologian
heheheheh...on His Throne!
Thief
Rogue Theologian
Well...I'm going to sit back on my throne and say.....Spirit first.
My say so.....my will.
Placing substance first has no logic to it.
Well, I doubt you can sit comfortably on a throne without gravity. So, it is plausible that there is timespace warping masses in heaven.
Unless, of course, the throne is spititual too.
Ciao
- viole
Before the Bang there was nothing.....except in theist thinking.
But there was a god (??) who sat on a throne.
Viole thinks there was "gravity" in this nothingness...or some sort of "timespace"...whatever that is.
But just maybe the throne was "spititual" without any gravity...in the void of nothingness.
But thinking in the abstract allusion of there being a god there,
sitting on a gravityless throne in an imaginary heaven,
a big question occurs here,
what is this nothingness that exsisted before the bang that was caused by God's snapping fingers ?
The hell with the throne, where's the floor ?
~
'mud
But there was a god (??) who sat on a throne.
Viole thinks there was "gravity" in this nothingness...or some sort of "timespace"...whatever that is.
But just maybe the throne was "spititual" without any gravity...in the void of nothingness.
But thinking in the abstract allusion of there being a god there,
sitting on a gravityless throne in an imaginary heaven,
a big question occurs here,
what is this nothingness that exsisted before the bang that was caused by God's snapping fingers ?
The hell with the throne, where's the floor ?
~
'mud
hey Viole,
I want to apoligize about getting smart with that comment about 'spiritual',
just couldn't resist.
I seem to get what you meant, but the 'timespace' thing kind eludes me.
Could you explain it to me ?
Once again, sorry about getting smart arsed, I really like your stuff.
~
On another throne,
'mud
I want to apoligize about getting smart with that comment about 'spiritual',
just couldn't resist.
I seem to get what you meant, but the 'timespace' thing kind eludes me.
Could you explain it to me ?
Once again, sorry about getting smart arsed, I really like your stuff.
~
On another throne,
'mud
godnotgod
Thou art That
Because it is nothingness, there is no Time or Space; no before or after. What is this nothingness? Consciousness itself. The BB was an event in consciousness. The universe as it exists, is an ongoing event in consciousness, which is outside of Time and Space.
Consciousness did not arise out of the so-called 'material' world; the material world arose out of consciousness (!). But when we look at the material world, we find not very much material there at all. It's mostly empty space, to the tune of over 99.9%, with the remaining material behaving like energy.
The material world is an illusion in consciousness, but an illusion of a higher order than ordinary illusion. We see it as 'real' however, because our consciousness has been conditioned to see the universe through the conceptual filters of Time, Space, and Causation, and as composed of separate 'things' called atoms.
So what is the universe?
'The universe is the Absolute as seen through the glass of Time, Space, and Causation'
Vivikenanda
The data always exists but the knowing it requires analysis of the data. Experience always happening at many levels. Consciousness is a human construct meant in human terms.
What is 'causation'...maybe it's the beginning of the enertia that sets the momentum into the empty non-existance of nothingness.
Nahhhhhhh....that's not it.
Maybe it's the non-ending journey to the almost apparantly avoidable edge of the infinite ridge of the toroid about which we circle.
Nahhhhhhhhhhh...that's not it.
It could be the infintly small space that contains the whole of all that will be in the expansive condition into which we all will evolve into.
Nahhhhhhhhhhhhh...that's not it.
From the "cause" comes the answer to GNG's question, what started the beginning, or......was there any beginning ?
Nahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh....God did it !
Nahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...Like GNG says...........Hehehehehehehehehe!
~
'mud
Nahhhhhhh....that's not it.
Maybe it's the non-ending journey to the almost apparantly avoidable edge of the infinite ridge of the toroid about which we circle.
Nahhhhhhhhhhh...that's not it.
It could be the infintly small space that contains the whole of all that will be in the expansive condition into which we all will evolve into.
Nahhhhhhhhhhhhh...that's not it.
From the "cause" comes the answer to GNG's question, what started the beginning, or......was there any beginning ?
Nahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh....God did it !
Nahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...Like GNG says...........Hehehehehehehehehe!
~
'mud
factseeker88
factseeker88
Thing are the way they are because of natural forces. Unnatural magic had nothing to do with it.
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]What we think, or what we know, or what we believe is, in the end, of little consequence. The only consequence is WHAT WE DO. John Ruskin (1819 - 1900) [/FONT]
Thief
Rogue Theologian
Let me take that much away....altogether.
Time does not exist.
It is not a force or a substance.
It is a method of measure.
A cognitive device created by Man to serve Man.
It does not exist off of the chalkboard.
Space is real enough.
It's that left over emptiness between two portions of substance.
Kinda hard to wrap your head around nothing.
Some religious type people meditate as if they can.
They actually try to go back to the emptiness.
I don't.
Quite the opposite, really.
I believe we are here to learn all we can.
The body can't really do anything else.
Let my cup overflow.
godnotgod
Thou art That
godnotgod
Thou art That
What is 'causation'...maybe it's the beginning of the enertia that sets the momentum into the empty non-existance of nothingness.
Nahhhhhhh....that's not it.
Maybe it's the non-ending journey to the almost apparantly avoidable edge of the infinite ridge of the toroid about which we circle.
Nahhhhhhhhhhh...that's not it.
It could be the infintly small space that contains the whole of all that will be in the expansive condition into which we all will evolve into.
Nahhhhhhhhhhhhh...that's not it.
From the "cause" comes the answer to GNG's question, what started the beginning, or......was there any beginning ?
Nahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh....God did it !
Nahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...Like GNG says...........Hehehehehehehehehe!
~
'mud
Causation
So we have seen, from the Upanishads, that maya is made of three gunas. The Sankhyans call it prakriti, the first cause, and we have seen that the first cause must be apparitional. As Swami Vivekananda said, the Universe is the Absolute seen through the screen of time, space, and causation. Here I need to say a few words about causation, because what we ordinarily see as causation is not apparitional. It is transformational. Chevys do not arise by apparition; they come from Detroit. Although, as we have seen, the first cause of our physics is apparitional, it leaves us with a Universe wound up with energy, and the transformations run on of their own accord. Gravity arises by apparition, but falling is transformational. The gravitational energy is transformed to kinetic energy without any change in the amount.
As you may know, philosophical systems, in India, are catalogued according to their understanding of causation. The Sankhyans were Parinamavadins. They believed in parinama, transformational causation, like making milk into buttermilk. The milk is transformed into buttermilk. The Advaita Vedantins are Vivartavadins. They believe that the first cause is vivarta, apparition, like mistaking a rope for a snake. Now these are very different things. When milk is transformed into buttermilk, it's a change that takes place in time. It's a happening, and there's a shelf life on your buttermilk. There's a date on it. But mistaking a rope for a snake is not a happening in that sense. It is not that you mistook the rope for a snake yesterday and now there's a snake in your kitchen and you don't dare open the door. It's a mistake you are making now; it's something you're doing now.
Transformational Causation
Now the rules that govern transformational causation are very well understood at the universities. The energy that goes into an operation at the beginning comes out at the end. Although the form of the energy may change, you never get any new energy that way. It's like pouring gold. You melt it and pour it into a set of forms. Then you remelt it and pour it into another set of forms. You never get rich that way. No matter how many times you remelt it, you never get any new gold. Transformational causation is like that. What you put in at the beginning comes out at the end. It is governed by the conservation laws. Whether it's matter, energy, momentum or electrical charge -- whatever you put in at the beginning comes out at the end. And since the Universe is made out of energy, the changes of which are governed by these conservation laws, the Universe cannot have arisen through transformational causation. It cannot have come out of nothing.
Apparitional Causation
But what I have referred to as apparitional causation is a very different thing. When you mistake a rope for a snake, the rope is not transformed into a snake. It's just a mistake, and it's something you're doing now. So the question is not: "How did the Absolute become the Universe?" That can't be answered. The Absolute has not become the Universe. The question is, " Why do we see it that way? Why do we feel that we are bound? Why do we continue to make this mistake? Why are we unable to see through the apparition?"
The Equations of Maya
Godnotgod,
You're not that far off sounding to those who have ears. However, concern arises regarding a possible clinging to 'substance'. For example, theistic traditions tend to talk up a singular substance of some kind, which allows followers to step out and do their own version of so-called "enlightened" actions while shifting or placing responsibility upon the absolute substance.
Do you believe that there is a fundamental substance?
You're not that far off sounding to those who have ears. However, concern arises regarding a possible clinging to 'substance'. For example, theistic traditions tend to talk up a singular substance of some kind, which allows followers to step out and do their own version of so-called "enlightened" actions while shifting or placing responsibility upon the absolute substance.
Do you believe that there is a fundamental substance?
godnotgod
Thou art That
Does that really say anything?
No, just ordinary magic. For example, don't you find it a bit odd that you are even here, now? And have you ever really asked the question: 'who is it that is here, now?"
If you can truly answer that question, everything, including you, will be magical.
"Chop wood, carry water.
How miraculous!"
from Zen