What came before the Big Bang?

[Thief]

Were it not for the empty cup, there would be no overflow.

You missed again.
We are born empty.
We should be learning all that we can before we die.

Born empty....but not be empty.

 

[godnotgod]

You missed again.
We are born empty.
We should be learning all that we can before we die.

Born empty....but not be empty.

Your overflow has become a wretched excess.

What good will all your 'learning' be in the afterlife? Everything you are learning; all that you are, is tuned to THIS life. You will be so full of crap when you get there that you won't have room for the supposedly new and exciting experience of Heaven. You will be contaminating the future with the past.

 

[godnotgod]

Godnotgod,

You're not that far off sounding to those who have ears. However, concern arises regarding a possible clinging to 'substance'. For example, theistic traditions tend to talk up a singular substance of some kind, which allows followers to step out and do their own version of so-called "enlightened" actions while shifting or placing responsibility upon the absolute substance.

Do you believe that there is a fundamental substance?

No, only pure consciousness, out of which what we only call 'substance' originates. Because there is no fundamental substance, there is no need to explain its origin. Pure consciousness is the state of No-thing-ness. Everything comes out of Nothing. The BB is an ongoing event in consciousness.

 

[Thief]

Your overflow has become a wretched excess.

What good will all your 'learning' be in the afterlife? Everything you are learning; all that you are, is tuned to THIS life. You will be so full of crap when you get there that you won't have room for the supposedly new and exciting experience of Heaven. You will be contaminating the future with the past.

I see a glimmer of reasoning here.
Indeed.
What if you return to your Maker...... empty?

He might ask?.....I gave you a great inheritance....and you have returned with nothing. What shall you now have?

"To those who have....more shall be given.
From those who think they have....it shall be taken away....."

Oh, that's right.....
You don't believe such things....

 

[`mud]

Some believe in a supreme god, the worshipped creator of all and after all.
Some don't believe in any apperception of a singular source of the "now" that they consider as the true source of "all".
A question was asked if there was anything before the "Big Bang", a theory projected by a preist.
Some inkling of theism is apparantly nestled in with this thinking, pointing to a "creation" of some sort by someone or some entity.
~
Now.....what was the "substance" that existed before the supposed BB happened ? Where was the creator existing in this "substance" ?
The answer is probably: "Everywhere that the creator existed, with the nothingness the creator used to create everything."
The creator and the nothingness were all together, maybe we don't need to consider the nothingness in this particular agument
Obviously we have to accept the statement that everything came from nothing, or nothingess, the creator just created those entities that were needed.
Is anyone here asking: "from where did the creator come, was this entity there all the time", remember....time doesn't really exist....it's a measurement of....
Distance vs Energy vs Motion.....enertia vs momentum....and of course....a creator and various entities that don't yet exist before the creation.
~
Sorry about sticking a little science in there, I don't think any scripture really mentioned it, I think it's called "spirit" or "substance".
That's the stuff that is in everyone that has a thinking mind, from which all the reality of existance comes.
And from this "substance" known as rational thought, comes the ideas of existing humans.
It causes all our projections, memories, realities, and actions.....we even dream, and that's only a projection.
~
Now......what the hell came before the beginning, or was there any.....beginning ?
~
I could go on.....wellll...I have, so to speak...oh well...just thoughts....sorry about that !

~
'mud

 

[godnotgod]

Some believe in a supreme god, the worshipped creator of all and after all.
Some don't believe in any apperception of a singular source of the "now" that they consider as the true source of "all".
A question was asked if there was anything before the "Big Bang", a theory projected by a preist.
Some inkling of theism is apparantly nestled in with this thinking, pointing to a "creation" of some sort by someone or some entity.
~
Now.....what was the "substance" that existed before the supposed BB happened ? Where was the creator existing in this "substance" ?
The answer is probably: "Everywhere that the creator existed, with the nothingness the creator used to create everything."
The creator and the nothingness were all together, maybe we don't need to consider the nothingness in this particular agument
Obviously we have to accept the statement that everything came from nothing, or nothingess, the creator just created those entities that were needed.
Is anyone here asking: "from where did the creator come, was this entity there all the time", remember....time doesn't really exist....it's a measurement of....
Distance vs Energy vs Motion.....enertia vs momentum....and of course....a creator and various entities that don't yet exist before the creation.
~
Sorry about sticking a little science in there, I don't think any scripture really mentioned it, I think it's called "spirit" or "substance".
That's the stuff that is in everyone that has a thinking mind, from which all the reality of existance comes.
And from this "substance" known as rational thought, comes the ideas of existing humans.
It causes all our projections, memories, realities, and actions.....we even dream, and that's only a projection.
~
Now......what the hell came before the beginning, or was there any.....beginning ?
~
I could go on.....wellll...I have, so to speak...oh well...just thoughts....sorry about that !

~
'mud

Even if there was a 'before' the 'beginning' was and is always 'now', and 'now' is outside of Time, Space, or Causation. It only APPEARS as if there is a caused before and after. That is the illusion most of us suffer from. There is ONLY now. The notions of past and future are held only in the mind, as well as the notion of the present moment as being an elusive split second. But that idea is part of the framework of linear time; I am referring to the Present Moment as timeless. Therefore, there is no beginning and no end because there is no Time. What you refer to as 'spirit' and 'substance' are really one and the same. They are really consciousness, and consciousness is outside of the conceptual frameworks of Time, Space and Causation. So we see the universe as we do because of them, but that is not how the universe actually is. IOW, we see the universe via a conditioned mind, but we are unaware of this conditioning because we have been exposed to it from birth. Spiritual Awakening is what allows us to see the universe as it actually is, and that we are the universe itself, looking at itself through our eyes. That is the transformation of consciousness that must occur to see things as they actually are, rather than via the distortions of Time, Space, and Causation. The problem is the thinking mind, which is forever attempting to 'figure it out', when there is nothing to figure out, but only to see things as they are. 'Seeing' is how consciousness works; thinking is how mind works. When we are in the state of pure consciousness, the universe is no longer an object of mind; there is no 'observer of the observation', as in the scientific view, as both have become one, which is the actual Reality. IOW:

'The universe is the Absolute as seen through the glass of Time, Space, and Causation'
Vivikenanda

What all this is saying is that we have put the cart before the horse in attempting to 'understand' the universe via Logic, Reason, and Analysis. If we learn to SEE things as they are first via pure conscious attention rather than thought, our scientific findings will then be illuminated with our new vision. Science cannot illuminate our spiritual vision because its scope is limited. But the spiritual view contains the whole enchilada. Then we can enjoy the meal instead of eating only the menu.

 

[godnotgod]

Indeed.
What if you return to your Maker...... empty?

If you are empty, who is it that returns?

 

[`mud]

hey GNG,
Interesting twist of the mirror...
the same they are, aren't they.
Now to dream again...those thoughts of 'now' as it speeds by,
remembering yesterday's speedy debarture,
looking forward to tommorow's promise.
~
'mud

 

[godnotgod]

hey GNG,
Interesting twist of the mirror...
the same they are, aren't they.
Now to dream again...those thoughts of 'now' as it speeds by,
remembering yesterday's speedy debarture,
looking forward to tommorow's promise.
~
'mud

It's all in our heads, LOL.

Smash the mirror!

 

[Thief]

It's all in our heads, LOL.

Smash the mirror!

It's not in your head.
Bang it on the wall til it bleeds.
THEN say it's all in your head!

 

[Robert.Evans]

Even if there was a 'before' the 'beginning' was and is always 'now', and 'now' is outside of Time, Space, or Causation. It only APPEARS as if there is a caused before and after. That is the illusion most of us suffer from. There is ONLY now. The notions of past and future are held only in the mind, as well as the notion of the present moment as being an elusive split second. But that idea is part of the framework of linear time; I am referring to the Present Moment as timeless. Therefore, there is no beginning and no end because there is no Time. What you refer to as 'spirit' and 'substance' are really one and the same. They are really consciousness, and consciousness is outside of the conceptual frameworks of Time, Space and Causation. So we see the universe as we do because of them, but that is not how the universe actually is. IOW, we see the universe via a conditioned mind, but we are unaware of this conditioning because we have been exposed to it from birth. Spiritual Awakening is what allows us to see the universe as it actually is, and that we are the universe itself, looking at itself through our eyes. That is the transformation of consciousness that must occur to see things as they actually are, rather than via the distortions of Time, Space, and Causation. The problem is the thinking mind, which is forever attempting to 'figure it out', when there is nothing to figure out, but only to see things as they are. 'Seeing' is how consciousness works; thinking is how mind works. When we are in the state of pure consciousness, the universe is no longer an object of mind; there is no 'observer of the observation', as in the scientific view, as both have become one, which is the actual Reality. IOW:

'The universe is the Absolute as seen through the glass of Time, Space, and Causation'
Vivikenanda

What all this is saying is that we have put the cart before the horse in attempting to 'understand' the universe via Logic, Reason, and Analysis. If we learn to SEE things as they are first via pure conscious attention rather than thought, our scientific findings will then be illuminated with our new vision. Science cannot illuminate our spiritual vision because its scope is limited. But the spiritual view contains the whole enchilada. Then we can enjoy the meal instead of eating only the menu.

Everything is Consciousness, agreed; Goswami, Hoffman, Lanza, Hagelin.

 

[godnotgod]

It's not in your head.
Bang it on the wall til it bleeds.
THEN say it's all in your head!

The concepts and ideas we hold regarding the universe are all in our heads. They are in the way of seeing the universe as it actually is.

 

[raw_thought]

There was no time before the big bang. Therefore there was no before the big bang. Time was created at the big bang. That is the current view among physicists. Ironically it is also the view of Augustine, in that he said that God also created time. One can debate if Augustine was simply lucky or inspired but he was spot on about that one.
To make this idea clearer one must remember that time is a dimension like height, depth and width. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternalism_(philosophy_of_time) To ask what happened before the big bang is like asking what is north of the north pole.

 

[Skwim]

There was no time before the big bang. Therefore there was no before the big bang. Time was created at the big bang.

The create of "created" implies a coming into being, and in turn this "coming" implies a passage of time. So, before the "time" that was born of the creation event there had to be time involved in the creation of the event. So time did exist before the B.B..

Just sayin'.

 

[raw_thought]

Modern physics ( Stephen Hawking etc) disagree with you. There is no "coming into being" because time does not pass. It is a dimension like height, depth or width. At the big bang time began, it did not exist before that.
...
". Although the universe doesn't have an end, it had a beginning in the Big Bang. One might ask what is before that, but the answer is that there is nowhere before the Big Bang, just as there is nowhere south of the South Pole."
Stephen Hawking
FROM
10 Questions for Stephen Hawking - TIME
"Now Besso has departed from this strange world a little ahead of me. That means nothing. People like us, who believe in physics, know that the distinction between past, present and future is only a stubbornly persistent illusion."
Einstein
FROM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michele_Besso

 

[Thief]

The concepts and ideas we hold regarding the universe are all in our heads. They are in the way of seeing the universe as it actually is.

So your struggle goes on!

 

[godnotgod]

So your struggle goes on!

I'm not the one who's terrified over a handful of dust, and who sets up all sorts of psychological props to deal with it.

 

[Skwim]

Modern physics ( Stephen Hawking etc) disagree with you. There is no "coming into being" because time does not pass.

Then tomorrow's evening must be contemporaneous with yesterday's morning. How interesting. This is what you are saying, isn't it?

At the big bang time began,

So, just what is the character of this time dimension if it doesn't involve passage?

it did not exist before that.

And, your evidence is . . . . . . . . . . . . ?

 

[Thief]

Time is a measure of movement.
Before the Bang.....no three dimensional space.....no distance....
No movement to measure.

Time is not a force or substance.
It is a cognitive device created by Man to serve Man.

 

[Thief]

I'm not the one who's terrified over a handful of dust, and who sets up all sorts of psychological props to deal with it.

Not scared one bit.

Your denial is your crutch.