What came before the Big Bang?

[godnotgod]

Remember the opening statement:
"What came before the Big Bang?"
and:
Did it really happen?
~
'mud

Well, here we are, aren't we? But since there was neither Time nor Space at the moment of inception, it cannot have been an event in the physical sense, since matter must exist in Time and Space. It can only have been an event in consciousness, which is outside of Time and Space.

Think about it.

What we call 'matter' comes from consciousness, and not the other way around.

 

[godnotgod]

It is the divine energy. It is like water and ice. Water is liquid. Ice is solid.when the ice melts it is water. So also the physical energy is the conditioned energy of the divine.

Why not just say 'energy', and it's manifested form, 'illusion'?

Or do you think the world of form to be real?

 

[Darkstorn]

My two cents:

Time didn't exist "before" Big Bang. Therefore, there is no before big bang.

Something something. Our knowledge / understanding of the subject is lacking. We cannot as human beings conceive a timeless existence, where things happen at the same time(argh) and not-at-the-same-time simultaneously. Yes... Very difficult to speak of inconceivable things with a conceived language.

It could be god. It could also be something that can at some point be scientifically verified. But most likely: It transcends our understanding. Yet we understand the concept of gods. So it's probably not that.

Something inconceivable. It doesn't make things easier that "time" is a human concept. The concept could be wrong and the phenomenom could be way, way WAY more complex than we can understand.

Not many people even understand that time is NOT linear. Try explaining that to such people. They cannot understand it. Therefore, we're in the same position at BEST: WE cannot know.

 

[Bunyip]

My two cents:

Time didn't exist "before" Big Bang. Therefore, there is no before big bang.

Something something. Our knowledge / understanding of the subject is lacking. We cannot as human beings conceive a timeless existence, where things happen at the same time(argh) and not-at-the-same-time simultaneously. Yes... Very difficult to speak of inconceivable things with a conceived language.

Timeless existence is a contradiction in terms, existence is temporal.

It could be god. It could also be something that can at some point be scientifically verified. But most likely: It transcends our understanding. Yet we understand the concept of gods. So it's probably not that.

Something inconceivable. It doesn't make things easier that "time" is a human concept. The concept could be wrong and the phenomenom could be way, way WAY more complex than we can understand.

Not many people even understand that time is NOT linear. Try explaining that to such people. They cannot understand it. Therefore, we're in the same position at BEST: WE cannot know.

So much of the incredible journey of humanity from the cave to the21st century has been empowered by the fact that not knowing is not enough. Sure there are things that we do not understand, but science relies on the assumption that we can learn more about them and that all things may be ultimately explicable. If we assume that we can begin to understand, we keep looking for answers, but if we assume that we can not - then we stop learning.

 

[Darkstorn]

Timeless existence is a contradiction in terms, existence is temporal.

Sources please.

So much of the incredible journey of humanity from the cave to the21st century has been empowered by the fact that not knowing is not enough. Sure there are things that we do not understand, but science relies on the assumption that we can learn more about them and that all things may be ultimately explicable. If we assume that we can begin to understand, we keep looking for answers, but if we assume that we can not - then we stop learning.

You misunderstand. We don't know yet because it is not within our capacity to know it. Nor do we possess technology that can measure it. In fact, our knowledge likely exceeds the capability of all our ways of measuring the phenomena so we're even more disadvantaged than you think: This is a question of such magnitude that it's doubtful that even science can answer it within our lifetimes.

On the other hand, knowledge is exponential. We could know it within 50 years. Or never. Right now we know nothing.

 

[Thief]

I have never once asked you nor anyone else to follow me. I have no doctrine such as belief in an 'afterlife' to push, as you do.

The point of music or dance is the music and the dance themselves; not the place where the music or dance end. LIkewise for creation: it may not have any purpose whatsoever other than its own presence. Of what use is a kaleidescope other than the delight it brings in being what it is? To conjecture a purpose for creation is only to spin your wheels in fantasy.

There is nothing to believe; nothing to get. There is only this eternal Present Moment, and you are it.

Now go dance.

Dance I shall.....upon your grave.
hehehehehehe

No really....in one breath, you say as I do and the next breath, you blow it off.

Take your current comment....
'There is nothing to believe....nothing to get.'

A denial.

THEN you make statement....
'There is only this eternal Present Moment....and (I am) it!'

A proclamation of BELIEF!

THIS PLOY YOU USE CONTINUALLY IS CALLED......DOUBLE-MINDED!

You do it all the time.....while making denial of duality!

Then you tell me to go dance!
Admitting (in effect)....that I do exist and can take action.

Your next retort is predictable....more denial.
You will now attempt as you have always done so......tell me I don't exist.

 

[Bunyip]

Sources please.

To exist means to occupy space and time. Something that exists occupies space and time, to be timeless and immaterial ix to not exist.

You misunderstand. We don't know yet because it is not within our capacity to know it. Nor do we possess technology that can measure it. In fact, our knowledge likely exceeds the capability of all our ways of measuring the phenomena so we're even more disadvantaged than you think: This is a question of such magnitude that it's doubtful that even science can answer it within our lifetimes.


On the other hand, knowledge is exponential. We could know it within 50 years. Or never. Right now we know nothing.

Hardly nothing, but certainly not everything.

 

[Darkstorn]

To exist means to occupy space and time. Something that exists occupies space and time, to be timeless and immaterial ix to not exist.

Okay. That means your thoughts do not exist.

But i disagree. It doesn't mean that.

Hardly nothing, but certainly not everything.

Judging from your reasoning, you at least know nothing. You kind of implied it anyway.

 

[Thief]

To exist means to occupy space and time. Something that exists occupies space and time, to be timeless and immaterial ix to not exist.




Hardly nothing, but certainly not everything.

Time does not exist....never did....doesn't now...never will.

 

[Bunyip]

Okay. That means your thoughts do not exist.

But i disagree. It doesn't mean that.

Sure my thoughts exist, they are quanta of energy. Energy exists and occupies space and time.

Judging from your reasoning, you at least know nothing. You kind of implied it anyway.

 

[Bunyip]

Time does not exist....never did....doesn't now...never will.

Well, you say that now.......

 

[Darkstorn]

Sure my thoughts exist, they are quanta of energy. Energy exists and occupies space and time.

THAT has not been proven. Thoughts could be immaterial. Our current knowledge verifies that at best we have guesses.

Really. I was trying to point out that even science can change based on new findings. That's why we know nothing now essentially.

But here you are, making a claim about consciousness and thoughts as if it was proven, scientific fact. It's not. Nothing pertaining to our consciousness has ever been proven.

 

[Thief]

THAT has not been proven. Thoughts could be immaterial. Our current knowledge verifies that at best we have guesses.

Really. I was trying to point out that even science can change based on new findings. That's why we know nothing now essentially.

But here you are, making a claim about consciousness and thoughts as if it was proven, scientific fact. It's not. Nothing pertaining to our consciousness has ever been proven.

That you are there making retort.....proves.....you are there.

 

[Bunyip]

THAT has not been proven. Thoughts could be immaterial. Our current knowledge verifies that at best we have guesses.

Really. I was trying to point out that even science can change based on new findings. That's why we know nothing now essentially.

But here you are, making a claim about consciousness and thoughts as if it was proven, scientific fact. It's not. Nothing pertaining to our consciousness has ever been proven.

Sure, consciousness is a product of material interactions, kill the brain the thoughts stop.
There is no thought without a physical brain - thoughts are temporal, they take place kn space and time.

How can you think external to time and without a brain? There is no evidence to suggest that you can, we do not need to consider options for which there is no evidence.

 

[Thief]

Well, you say that now.......

No really.....time is not a force or a substance.
It is only a cognitive device created by Man to serve Man.
It is a measurement.
A quotient of numbers on a chalkboard.
You will never find it anywhere else.

 

[Thief]

Sure, consciousness is a product of material interactions, kill the brain the thoughts stop.
There is no thought without a physical brain - thoughts are temporal, they take place kn space and time.

No life without the body?
Then spiritual life is not possible.

No God .....no Creator....no afterlife.....

Man is then a complete mystery.....no purpose and no resolve.

Nothing but dust, doomed to the grave.

 

[Bunyip]

No really.....time is not a force or a substance.
It is only a cognitive device created by Man to serve Man.
It is a measurement.
A quotient of numbers on a chalkboard.
You will never find it anywhere else.

Time is a function of force and substance, it is the medium in which force and substance occur.

 

[Bunyip]

No life without the body?
Then spiritual life is not possible.

No God .....no Creator....no afterlife.....

Man is then a complete mystery.....no purpose and no resolve.

Nothing but dust, doomed to the grave.

I am no more nothing but dust, then the Mona Lisa is merely pigment.

As to purpose and resolve, those are independant of promises of deeper mysteries.

 

[Darkstorn]

Sure, consciousness is a product of material interactions, kill the brain the thoughts stop.
There is no thought without a physical brain - thoughts are temporal, they take place kn space and time.

THAT still has not been proven... It's *likely* but not necessarily the answer.

Who says the thoughts stop when you kill the brain? Sure, you can no longer measure brain activity. But brain activity does not translate to thoughts: No one has ever been able to translate these graphs into a form understandable as actual thoughts: It is merely activity of certain parts of the brain that gets measured. NOTHING more.

It has not been proven that thoughts are temporal. It has not been proven that they take place in time and space. It has not been proven that "time" exists beyond the following: It's a human term to descrive a phenomenom. It could be wrong. It likely is wrong.

Time is not linear: But we don't know exactly what it is. It could be cyclical, but we don't know this either. We only know what it is not: Linear.

Our understanding of the subject changes based on new information. The current information shows us that time is more complex than how a human would normally think the concept. Things do not necessarily happen "in order" even if it seems that way to us, on Earth...

How can you think external to time and without a brain? There is no evidence to suggest that you can, we do not need to consider options for which there is no evidence.

Yes, there is no evidence to suggest you can. But there is none for the other view either...

THAT is what i'm trying to say. Black and white thinking is the true death of science. Science will NEVER answer everything... It'll always seek to however. That is the point.

As for existence itself. I am a Buddhist. Therefore i make no claims about existence.

 

[Thief]

Time is a function of force and substance, it is the medium in which force and substance occur.

Nope. Not at all.
No such thing.

No time in bottle.....cannot be generated....or displayed.

You are confusing numbers with reality.

(You are using the word function incorrectly.
in math.....you can say function.....)