What can an omnipotent being actually risk/sacrifice?

[Gulo]

If Jesus was resurrected, and his father can resurrect him as many times as he likes, what did Jesus actually risk or sacrifice? What did his father risk/sacrifice, compared to somebody like a mortal firefighter?

 

[Earthling]

If Jesus was resurrected, and his father can resurrect him as many times as he likes, what did Jesus actually risk or sacrifice? What did his father risk/sacrifice, compared to somebody like a mortal firefighter?

What you have to understand about Jesus is that he existed in heaven before coming to earth as Jesus. Colossians 1:15-17 John 17:5. So he temporarily went from being a highly intelligent spirit being with great powers to being a lowly man. What he sacrificed was his life as a man. The point being he gave his soul, his life, his blood, in payment for the soul, life, blood of Adam. So all he had to do was give his blood. The reason for that is the life, or soul, is in the blood. It's sacred to Jehovah. It belongs to him, who created it. So if a man killed another man in order for there to be justice that man's blood, soul, or life, must be taken. Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, soul for soul. Since Adam was created perfect, without sin, then the death that Satan's deception brought about could only be paid in full if another man who was perfect and without sin had his life, blood, soul taken. Since all of Adam's offspring . . . everyone . . . were born in the sin they inherited from Adam then only Jesus could pay the price, since he was born through the virgin Mary and in this way, was without sin.

So Jesus' body was done away with after his death. He was resurrected with a body that was similar to his that was sacrificed. That's why some of his followers didn't recognize him after he was resurrected.

How did this effect Jehovah? He had to watch his precious son, not only be tortured like a lowly criminal, beyond what we could imagine, but he had to separate himself from his son. He had to forsake him. Leave him to the enemy to be destroyed. Can you imagine how painful that would have been.

 

[Sir Doom]

Omnipotent God should be intimately aware of every tiny speck of pain felt by anything even more so than the one experiencing the pain. Whether this is a detached sort of experience or not would probably be optional but this is a necessary part of both omniscience and omnipresence. Feeling all pain everywhere all the time.

So, I say no. God didn't go through anything special for Jesus.

 

[Gulo]

What you have to understand about Jesus is that he existed in heaven before coming to earth as Jesus. Colossians 1:15-17 John 17:5. So he temporarily went from being a highly intelligent spirit being with great powers to being a lowly man. What he sacrificed was his life as a man. The point being he gave his soul, his life, his blood, in payment for the soul, life, blood of Adam. So all he had to do was give his blood. The reason for that is the life, or soul, is in the blood. It's sacred to Jehovah. It belongs to him, who created it. So if a man killed another man in order for there to be justice that man's blood, soul, or life, must be taken. Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, soul for soul. Since Adam was created perfect, without sin, then the death that Satan's deception brought about could only be paid in full if another man who was perfect and without sin had his life, blood, soul taken. Since all of Adam's offspring . . . everyone . . . were born in the sin they inherited from Adam then only Jesus could pay the price, since he was born through the virgin Mary and in this way, was without sin.

So Jesus' body was done away with after his death. He was resurrected with a body that was similar to his that was sacrificed. That's why some of his followers didn't recognize him after he was resurrected.

How did this effect Jehovah? He had to watch his precious son, not only be tortured like a lowly criminal, beyond what we could imagine, but he had to separate himself from his son. He had to forsake him. Leave him to the enemy to be destroyed. Can you imagine how painful that would have been.

An omnipotent being allegedly HAD to do something?

Who is providing all of this info? People?

 

[Earthling]

An omnipotent being allegedly HAD to do something?

Who is providing all of this info? People?

The teaching of omnipotence, omnipresence, omnibenevolence, omniscient, is somewhat misleading. However, Jehovah didn't have to do anything. He didn't have to create us, he didn't have to do anything. The info comes from the Bible. I can supply references if you have any questions about any specific portion of the info I provided.

 

[Deeje]

If Jesus was resurrected, and his father can resurrect him as many times as he likes, what did Jesus actually risk or sacrifice?

He died once and was resurrected once...that is all that was required to fulfill the law and pay the ransom for Adam's children.

Adam died for his own sin, but there was no one to pay for the release of his children from the awful debt that he left them. (Romans 5:12) Jesus became their redeemer. What Adam lost for them, (perfect sinless life in paradise on earth) Jesus came to get back for them.

As a human, Jesus felt everything that any human would feel. If you read in the gospel accounts of what Jesus endured in his final day of human life, ask your self how you would have felt suffering the same injustices?
He was betrayed by a once trusted associate, arrested by an armed angry mob, taken to the High Priest to be subjected to an illegal trial and accused by false witnesses. The next day He is taken before the Roman Governor who finds him not guilty of any capital offense and tries to have him released, but the angry mob threaten to report Pilate to his superiors for treason. Alarmed and fearful for his life, Pilate not only hands Jesus over for execution but also has him flogged with a whip embedded with bits of bone that are designed to tear flesh, and that was after being interrogated all night. Exhausted and bleeding, Jesus is forced to carry his own execution stake up to the place where he will be put to death. Nails are driven into his flesh, hands and feet, and he is lifted up to hang there until he expires.

There was a piece of wood at the feet of the one on the execution stake, so they could push up with their feet to reinflate their lungs and avoid suffocation, prolonging the agony. The Romans were noted for their cruel executions but by the end of the day, if their victims were not dead from suffocation, they broke their legs to hasten death. Thankfully, Jesus did not have to endure that final painful indignity. The two men hung alongside of him both had their legs broken. True to prophesy it was said that "not a bone in his body would be broken".

Now, ask yourself how Mary would have felt watching her son go through all this.....do you think his Father was unmoved? His beloved son had to die and God had to leave him momentarily so that death could overtake him. But after three days in a tomb, Jesus was resurrected...not as a human but as a spirit. (1 Peter 3:18)

Jesus was able to materialize bodies so as to appear to his apostles. Because the Jews were forbidden to communicate with spirits, Jesus always took on human form to instruct them. (As angels had done all through their early history) But he always dematerialized and left. On one occasions when he was having a meal with him, he disappeared right before their eyes. (Luke 24:30-31)

What did his father risk/sacrifice, compared to somebody like a mortal firefighter?

Jesus was 100% mortal and he also had free will. God had experienced rebellion and disloyalty in his spiritual family in heaven, with the devil abusing his free will and seducing the first humans into abusing theirs. It also says that satan managed to take many of his fellow spirit creatures with him to become demons.

The risk that God took, was that he sent his most trusted son to save the human race, and uphold God's sovereign right to set limits on the use of free will. Had Jesus succumbed to the devil's propaganda, (and he was temped by the devil to throw it all away for a quick reward) the fate of the human race and God's spiritual family would have been up for grabs. But Jesus remained faithful and returned to the spirit realm victorious.....the human race could now look forward to a bright future when Jesus finally cleanses this earth and takes his place as King of God's Kingdom.

What does a firefighter risk....his own life, not the lives of the whole human race.

 

[Twilight Hue]

What you have to understand about Jesus is that he existed in heaven before coming to earth as Jesus. Colossians 1:15-17 John 17:5. So he temporarily went from being a highly intelligent spirit being with great powers to being a lowly man. What he sacrificed was his life as a man. The point being he gave his soul, his life, his blood, in payment for the soul, life, blood of Adam. So all he had to do was give his blood. The reason for that is the life, or soul, is in the blood. It's sacred to Jehovah. It belongs to him, who created it. So if a man killed another man in order for there to be justice that man's blood, soul, or life, must be taken. Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, soul for soul. Since Adam was created perfect, without sin, then the death that Satan's deception brought about could only be paid in full if another man who was perfect and without sin had his life, blood, soul taken. Since all of Adam's offspring . . . everyone . . . were born in the sin they inherited from Adam then only Jesus could pay the price, since he was born through the virgin Mary and in this way, was without sin.

So Jesus' body was done away with after his death. He was resurrected with a body that was similar to his that was sacrificed. That's why some of his followers didn't recognize him after he was resurrected.

How did this effect Jehovah? He had to watch his precious son, not only be tortured like a lowly criminal, beyond what we could imagine, but he had to separate himself from his son. He had to forsake him. Leave him to the enemy to be destroyed. Can you imagine how painful that would have been.

I could see your sacrifice being pain and suffering but not a life since according to the narratives Jesus never really stayed dead.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

If Jesus was resurrected, and his father can resurrect him as many times as he likes, what did Jesus actually risk or sacrifice? What did his father risk/sacrifice, compared to somebody like a mortal firefighter?

The highest sacrifice is loosing your life for the sake of another person's safety.

Jesus had nothing to loose, just his worldly sufferings are just as any other human. Just not many people would die for their god for the sake of having people believe in his Father through the name of the sacrifice (not jesus).

The gain is through sacrifice of the believer not the sacrifice of Christ. Christ death is a human one. But when one mirrors their own spiritual sacrifice with a physical literal one they are motivated to change themselves as real people as they see Christ.

It has nothing to do with Christ. It's in the name of how sacrifice to which in it people come to god the father,the creator himself.

I guess you can say this pain is sacrifice. But then saints and prophets went through the same thing in intent and went to the creator too.

The sacrifice is in the Christian not Christ. It's in the name of Christ sacrifice not in the human person.

 

[Earthling]

I could see your sacrifice being pain and suffering but not a life since according to the narratives Jesus never really stayed dead.

I get that since he was unique in that he existed in heaven prior to as well as after his life here as a human. But also in a sense we have to keep in mind that in this life many people will have made a similar sacrifice, dying for what they believe in at an early age and then being resurrected for life everlasting.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

then the death that Satan's deception brought about could only be paid in full if another man who was perfect and without sin had his life, blood, soul taken.

It was god who decided it had to be that way. And Jesus, as the son of god, out of the duration of his eternal life he gave nothing.

everyone . . . were born in the sin they inherited from Adam

No one is born with such shackles around them.

 

[Earthling]

It was god who decided it had to be that way. And Jesus, as the son of god, out of the duration of his eternal life he gave nothing.

Correct. It's called justice. If I take your mask I have to give it back. If I take your mask and destroy it I have to replace it.

No one is born with such shackles around them.

Everyone is born with such shackles around them.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Correct. It's called justice. If I take your mask I have to give it back. If I take your mask and destroy it I have to replace it.

It's not justice when you decide, for some reason, that the only way to remotely fix things is to make yourself into a human to have yourself killed, and then put a guilt trip on humans for something you ordained. Out of the eons, Jesus spent a blink of an eye as a human and he had one lousy weekend in Hell, knowing ahead how things would turn out in the end.

Everyone is born with such shackles around them.

Not really. You can't know sin unless you've been taught what sin is, and even with such knowledge it only sticks if let the shackles close around you.

 

[Gulo]

I could see your sacrifice being pain and suffering but not a life since according to the narratives Jesus never really stayed dead.

He allegedly sacrificed...about a weekend.

 

[TheBannerofHomuraAkemi]

If Jesus was resurrected, and his father can resurrect him as many times as he likes, what did Jesus actually risk or sacrifice? What did his father risk/sacrifice, compared to somebody like a mortal firefighter?

I don't know being on that cross doesn't sound so fun. Especially if your all power God who has no concept pain because nothing could hurt you the first place.

But lets do an experiment. This Friday let crucified you and see whether or not you think being up there is worth something or not.

 

[Trailblazer]

If Jesus was resurrected, and his father can resurrect him as many times as he likes, what did Jesus actually risk or sacrifice? What did his father risk/sacrifice, compared to somebody like a mortal firefighter?

That is a good point. I believe that Jesus sacrificed Himself on the cross, but I do not believe in the bodily resurrection. If Jesus was resurrected, and then glorified the way Christians glorify Him, what kind of a sacrifice was that? I don't get it.

 

[Trailblazer]

An omnipotent being allegedly HAD to do something?

No, an omnipotent God does not have to do anything it does not want to do.

“Say: He ordaineth as He pleaseth, by virtue of His sovereignty, and doeth whatsoever He willeth at His own behest. He shall not be asked of the things it pleaseth Him to ordain. He, in truth, is the Unrestrained, the All-Powerful, the All-Wise.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p, 284

 

[Skwim]

What you have to understand about Jesus is that he existed in heaven before coming to earth as Jesus. Colossians 1:15-17 John 17:5. So he temporarily went from being a highly intelligent spirit being with great powers to being a lowly man. What he sacrificed was his life as a man.

This is like sacrificing the pleasure of getting wet in a rain storm for coming inside and getting dry and warm by a cozy fire while waited on by nubile females.

The point being he gave his soul, his life, his blood, in payment for the soul, life, blood of Adam.

Where is it said that Jesus gave up his soul?

The teaching of omnipotence, omnipresence, omnibenevolence, omniscient, is somewhat misleading.

In what way, relevant to the issue at hand?

Everyone is born with such shackles around them.

No thanks to god's good grace.

.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Correct. It's called justice. If I take your mask I have to give it back. If I take your mask and destroy it I have to replace it.

Punishing people for the 'sins' of some mythical great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great grandfather is not justice.

Would you consider it justice if you and every one of your descendants had to spend 35 years each in jail because your great grandfather had raped someone; even though neither you nor your descendants had committed such a crime?