What can happen when you believe nonsense...

[amorphous_constellation]

Serial killers aren't possessed by demons, they are people who had extremely difficult and traumatic childhoods, suffer with mental illness, and occasionally struggle with themselves, their urges and impulses, and their feelings regarding it all. Bundy, Manson, Dahmer, Shawcross, they weren't possessed by demons, they were ill.

When Dahmer had reality drop out from under him so he didn't remember it, that is the thing that goes unexplained. Perhaps the 'demon' is representative of the unrestrained actions that came from his subconscious, but the fact that he didn't remember his actions seems to indicate that they didn't exactly filter through his own will at any point. So it seems that he was open to something that would usurp his will, is my comment.

So apparently something, besides the common will which all people generally inhabit, could take precise actions and use the individual's body as a medium for them. And we might define that as an evil force or a demon, why not

 

[ajay0]

Is that why Christian ideology was plastered all over everything? Is that were Himmler's volkish obsession came from? It's more evidence we may not be able to trust a man who says he's doing the work and will of god.

Hitler and his propagandist Himmler plastered christianity over his ideology in order to bring the gullible masses behind him. He and the Nazis themselves had a very poor opinion of Christ and Christianity as shown by his statements on the same. The same too with the interest in German folklore and traditions all which were manipulated to move the masses along the Nazi nihilistic thought process.


In Hitler's eyes, Christianity was a religion fit only for slaves; he detested its ethics in particular. Its teaching, he declared, was a rebellion against the natural law of selection by struggle and the survival of the fittest.

— Alan Bullock, Hitler: A Study in Tyranny

 

[Curious George]

Correct, because under any other circumstances withholding medical treatment from a child is a crime. Religious people do it, their child dies, and just because they believe in adult Santa clause they don't face the consequences of their crimes like anyone under any other circumstances would, so it's not illegal just as long as you do it name of some invisible fantasy being.

I am thinking you don't have a case for this belief of yours, or do you?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I am thinking you don't have a case for this belief of yours, or do you?

It's not a belief, but a fact that children die because their parents refuse to take them to a doctor, so instead of being easily cured they die slowly and painfully because prayers are not medicine. You don't take your kid to a doctor under any other circumstances and it's considered child abuse.

 

[Cooky]

Another fine example of freedom of religion being allowed too much freedom, so much that we say "oh well, it's religion," while under any other circumstance we call it criminal or mentally ill behavior.

Oh, so he wasn't charged due to religious freedom?

 

[Cooky]

Religion is a big part but irrationality extends beyond such as antiVAXXERS

Fundamentalism is a disease. The desire to replace your conscience with something (anything) else is a kind of submission that is psychologically unhealthy.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

that is the thing that goes unexplained.

We can explain it though, and it doesn't involve demons. He was ill, not possessed.

So apparently something,

Yes! Mental illness. And I find the idea that demons could be so powerful as to get here and possess someone, but yet often times they are hopeless and powerless against psychotropic medications and psychotherapy.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Religion is a big part but irrationality extends beyond such as antiVAXXERS

I feel like because religion is somehow "socially acceptable" and even praised to at least a certain extent, as a society we are actually signaling that it is ok to have irrational beliefs.

I think that's a mentality that needs to change.

Imo, expressing belief in scientology, christianity, homeopathy, astrology, fortune tellers, psychics, etc... Or any other faith-based or superstitious claims... should trigger the exact same social reaction as when someone claims to have seen Elvis alive and well at Walmart or that he is the reincarnation of Napoleon or alike.

Go to a job interview and tell the interviewer that you believe that Elvis is alive and works at walmart, you'll be paying an immediate and instant social price, to the point of you likely having spoiled your chances of getting the job.

But if you say in that same interview that you believe a jewish man who was god incarnated worked miracles and raised himself from the dead, then you're just a christian.

The ironic part is that of these two, the Elvis one is actually more plausible right out the gates. Because the idea that Elvis wanted to flee the spotlights and then fake engineered his own death to then go and live like a "normal" citizen, doesn't actually require the assumption of physically impossible / supernatural things happening. At best, it requires a rather elaborate web of lies and conspiracy. Both of which we KNOW can be done.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Hitler and his propagandist Himmler

Himmler wasn't the Reich Minister of Propaganda. And, yeah, Hitler possibly did use Christianity (many historians argue so, but many also argue that, no, he was actually a Christian), but Hitler himself was probably very religious, even according to those who wrote he definitely wasn't Christian.

 

[Cooky]

I feel like because religion is somehow "socially acceptable" and even praised to at least a certain extent, as a society we are actually signaling that it is ok to have irrational beliefs.

I think that's a mentality that needs to change.

Imo, expressing belief in scientology, christianity, homeopathy, astrology, fortune tellers, psychics, etc... Or any other faith-based or superstitious claims... should trigger the exact same social reaction as when someone claims to have seen Elvis alive and well at Walmart or that he is the reincarnation of Napoleon or alike.

Go to a job interview and tell the interviewer that you believe that Elvis is alive and works at walmart, you'll be paying an immediate and instant social price, to the point of you likely having spoiled your chances of getting the job.

But if you say in that same interview that you believe a jewish man who was god incarnated worked miracles and raised himself from the dead, then you're just a christian.

The ironic part is that of these two, the Elvis one is actually more plausible right out the gates. Because the idea that Elvis wanted to flee the spotlights and then fake engineered his own death to then go and live like a "normal" citizen, doesn't actually require the assumption of physically impossible / supernatural things happening. At best, it requires a rather elaborate web of lies and conspiracy. Both of which we KNOW can be done.

It seems kind of dictatorial to eradicate irrational beliefs as you seem to want.

Have you ever watched a horror movie, and then watched your back while going to the bathroom? I think you probably have had that irrational experience.

...You might even realize it's irrational, but a month later, you would have the same reaction to a similar movie.

 

[Cooky]

We can explain it though, and it doesn't involve demons. He was ill, not possessed.

Yes! Mental illness. And I find the idea that demons could be so powerful as to get here and possess someone, but yet often times they are hopeless and powerless against psychotropic medications and psychotherapy.

You don't even need to be Christian to be crazy enough to consider your child a demon... All you need to do is watch the movie Exorcist, and be a little crazy to begin with.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Hitler and his propagandist Himmler plastered christianity over his ideology in order to bring the gullible masses behind him. He and the Nazis themselves had a very poor opinion of Christ and Christianity as shown by his statements on the same. The same too with the interest in German folklore and traditions all which were manipulated to move the masses along the Nazi nihilistic thought process.

I'm curious. What about Nazism do you see that is Nihilist? What about Nihilism do you see in Nazism?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It seems kind of dictatorial to eradicate irrational beliefs as you seem to want.

These examples are very specific, rather than taking broad strokes, and nor are the beliefs benign, but rather there can be consequences for others, such as in the OP.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You don't even need to be Christian to be crazy enough to consider your child a demon... All you need to do is watch the movie Exorcist, and be a little crazy to begin with.

Christianity has just been one of the various examples I've pulled from. Perhaps I have used it more (don't know, I haven't kept track), but it is more well known to me if I have, and thus "within closer reach."

 

[Cooky]

These examples are very specific, rather than taking broad strokes, and nor are the beliefs benign, but rather there can be consequences for others, such as in the OP.

Christianity has just been one of the various examples I've pulled from. Perhaps I have used it more (don't know, I haven't kept track), but it is more well known to me if I have, and thus "within closer reach."

I have no idea what we're talking about at this point.

 

[ajay0]

Himmler wasn't the Reich Minister of Propaganda. And, yeah, Hitler possibly did use Christianity (many historians argue so, but many also argue that, no, he was actually a Christian), but Hitler himself was probably very religious, even according to those who wrote he definitely wasn't Christian.

Hitler claimed himself to be religious, but he was a religious follower of nihilism and the racial ideologies present then. His religious belief's had nothing to do with love, compassion, unselfishness, nonviolence and universality which we associate with religion.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Hitler claimed himself to be religious, but he was a religious follower of nihilism

Just about everybody, including his closest cohorts, both publicly and privately, stated Hitler was religious. The only thing that's really debated is what religion he was, exactly.

His religious belief's had nothing to do with love, compassion, unselfishness, nonviolence and universality which we associate with religion.

No, that is what you associate with religion, and indeed not all religions do promote those things.

 

[ajay0]

I'm curious. What about Nazism do you see that is Nihilist? What about Nihilism do you see in Nazism?

Do study Nietzche and his exhortations for destruction to remove the old order values so that the strong will survive through their inherent value. All his philosophical teachings was gobbled up by the Nazi ideologues to condone their senseless destruction and tragic cruelty to even children in concentration camps as shown by the experiments Nazi scientists conducted.

Its all halfbaked philosophy and their brute application in real life, and the saying, "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing" proves itself to be true in this case as well.

The much older Eastern philosophy however states that values and virtures are of significance in itself, and so do love, compassion, nonviolence and kindness as they help to build up a higher state of consciousness, and are not mere abstractions.

Ranjini Menon is a female enlightened sage who attained Buddhahood or enlightenment just through adherence to virtiuous conduct alone.

Female enlightened master Rajini Menon on attaining enlightenment by adhering to virtuous conduct...

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

It seems kind of dictatorial to eradicate irrational beliefs as you seem to want.

I didn't say anything about eradication.
We don't give fines to people who believe elvis is still alive for example.
They are very allowed to believe that. It's not like it's illegal or whatever.

But there are social consequences. I don't see why there would be social consequences of believing something like that, but not for believing infinitely more unlikely and bizar and fantastical claims such as are found in various religions.

Religious beliefs, no matter how bizarre or fantastical, sit on this "priviliged" position in societies, where it is frowned upon to critisize them or even call them crazy.

But we have no problem with the "political correctness" or whatever you wish to call it, to call the beliefs of people who believe Elvis is still alive "crazy".

To me, there is a serious disconnect there. Believing supernatural claims is, in my view, vastly more crazy then to believe that someone presumed dead isn't actually dead.

Have you ever watched a horror movie, and then watched your back while going to the bathroom?

No.

I think you probably have had that irrational experience.

Actually, I haven't.
I don't get it either, people who say that they were scared being home alone after seeing some movie. It's a movie. By definition, it's fiction. There's nothing to be scared about.

What I did encounter a few times, was having nightmares after watching scary flicks. But that isn't really the same thing off course.

...You might even realize it's irrational, but a month later, you would have the same reaction to a similar movie.

Nope. Never had that. At least not that I can remember.
Perhaps when I was 6 or so, but I don't remember such experiences.

 

[Cooky]

I didn't say anything about eradication.
We don't give fines to people who believe elvis is still alive for example.
They are very allowed to believe that. It's not like it's illegal or whatever.

But there are social consequences. I don't see why there would be social consequences of believing something like that, but not for believing infinitely more unlikely and bizar and fantastical claims such as are found in various religions.

Religious beliefs, no matter how bizarre or fantastical, sit on this "priviliged" position in societies, where it is frowned upon to critisize them or even call them crazy.

But we have no problem with the "political correctness" or whatever you wish to call it, to call the beliefs of people who believe Elvis is still alive "crazy".

To me, there is a serious disconnect there. Believing supernatural claims is, in my view, vastly more crazy then to believe that someone presumed dead isn't actually dead.

Well, we have a "ghost" tour here in Orange, and Old Town San Diego also has one. A lot of people believe in ghosts, and they don't pay any social consequences for it.

...As far as believing Elvis is still alive, though..? Well, that's just crazy.