What can happen when you believe nonsense...

[Shadow Wolf]

I believe we also allow freedom of thought with just as many disastrous results.

Religion includes this overly massive "thought" category you just established.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Again i am looking for one case, any case, where a child died as a result of parents withholding medical care; and, the parents do not face prosecution because of a religious exception.

Do you know one or not?

When Faith Healing Kills Kids
Revealed Religion is Killing Children
183 Coffins For Idaho Children Killed By Faith Healing Parents
Letting them die: parents refuse medical help for children in the name of Christ
Some states have had the good senses to ban this atrocious behavior, but not all and not many last I knew. Idaho legally protects it, even.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The Bible is simple to understand.

I know, but the one I was addressing thinks otherwise.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Do study Nietzche

I have. I'm not convinced he was a Nihilist, and when it comes to the Nazis, saying they had a heavily bastardized version of him is putting very lightly. Such as, the got The Will to Power, but that was later years Nietzsche (often excluded as cannon and "must read" due to his ailing health), bits and pieces of rants and notes, not even actually a book until his sister took it, twisted it around to fit Nazi ideology, and presented it to her Nazi husband as The Will to Power.
Anyone who has actually studied Nietzsche will not reach Nazi conclusions, as he was basically against, and strongly so, most things Nazis were. Hitler and young Nietzsche both liked Wagner, but Nietzsche ended their friendship partly because Wagner converted to an anti-Semetic denomination of Christianity, with anti-Semitism in Germany, of course, being something else Nietzsche strongly criticized.

Its all halfbaked philosophy and their brute application in real life,

"We should consider every day lost on which we have not danced at least once" is "half baked" and "brute application?" Showing concern for people misplacing where they find meaning, that they place in facades of hope and meaning instead of places of real meaning? And being concerned that people fall into Nihilism? Or what about "Without music, life would be a mistake"? Or "It is not a lack of love, but a lack of friendship that makes unhappy marriages"?
Me wonders how much you've actually studied Nietzsche, because, simply put, very few had the passion for life and it's wonders and marvels that Nietzsche possessed. It's actually a great tragedy his [very bad words] sister did what she did to him, because an honest and critical reading just will not render a Nazi interpretation of him. He didn't like their ideology, their god, their master/slave living and mass conformity, and it's likely he would have hated Hitler Youth more than anything else.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

No. It is not these beliefs that lead to these actions.

He believed the child was possessed by a demon. There is no getting around that fact that his beliefs lead to this incident.

They do however fit the reality that a premodern, mythic and magic society sees.

We aren't talking about some remote tribe with little contact with the modern world. We are talking about someone in the US, in the state of Arizona.
And I am aware. Such world views would describe a Bic lighter as "witchcraft" because they didn't understand it, much like how volcanoes and earthquakes got to be a part of supernatural beliefs.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Showing that you know nothing about it.

How have I demonstrated this? Me thinks you are reading into it.

They're ritually butchering animals

"They're ritually butchering animals." That means animals are dying for some human's religious beliefs.

They're ritually butchering animals to prepare for a feast (you know, food,) in which their deities are invited to participate in.

And? Killing animals for food isn't something many of us have to do, yet we still kill animals to eat them, to amounts that are very much to the detriment of all life on Earth.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

"There is no God. Only the law of genetics. As we are born, the blue prints for the people we shall become are laid out. Our control over reality is an illusion. Our neurons will fire and our brain will behave as it is programmed regardless of what we do. The choices we make, the beliefs we have, the way we view the world, it is all predetermined by our genetics and our past experiences. We are on a train, going in one direction, no way of and no way to escape. It will always arrive at death. Always." - Mark 155

The only thing I'd ask you about that paragraph is this: do you really feel like your life is like that? That whether you even answer "yes" or "no" to this question, or even don't answer it at all, is outside of your control? That you couldn't help having that extra piece of cake at dinner? That you couldn't' choose not to have tea or coffee in the morning?

I personally feel as if every choice I make changes me. That how I feel about my choices affect my future choices -- that I am, in other words, constantly reprogramming myself. I accept the inevitability of death, but that doesn't prevent me from living, while I'm still alive.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

He added: “... the moment that your religion claims any kind of jurisdiction over my experience, you insult me on a level that you can’t even begin to comprehend.” from quoted site.

The article says he wrote this on Facebook. Do you somehow know that he also whispered this into the ears of his victims before he shot them?

The article also says this:

For now, Chapel Hill police say they are still investigating and have no evidence of a hate crime. Instead, they believe Tuesday’s killings were sparked by a long-standing dispute over parking spaces at the condominium complex where Hicks and two of the three victims, Deah Shaddy Barakat, 23, and his wife Yusor Mohammad Abu-Salha, 21, were neighbors. Abu-Salha’s sister, Razan Mohammad Abu-Salha, 19, was also slain.

Honestly, the Yahoo News site throwing the word "Atheist" into the article's title seems a bit biased, unnecessary and just plain weird. When another mass-shooting occurs, do the news sources bother pointing out what religion the perpetrator was? I am asking honestly, because I don't know if they do - I have never seen it or don't remember. And in this particular case, the link to the guy's atheism seems tenuous at best. I mean, I understand entirely why you want to grasp onto this instance of a shooting perpetrated by an atheist against those of a particular religion/culture, I do - but when "Yahoo News" has to turn to the follwing in order to justify their portrayal of the crime as an atheistic hate-crime:

In Facebook posts, Hicks’ anti-religious views appeared to target all faiths. Two days before the shootings, he shared a post titled, “Why are radical Christians and radical Muslims so opposed to each others’ influence when they agree about so many ideological issues?”

... you can pretty much know they've got nothing substantial to go on for their theorizing.

 

[nPeace]

The only thing I'd ask you about that paragraph is this: do you really feel like your life is like that? That whether you even answer "yes" or "no" to this question, or even don't answer it at all, is outside of your control? That you couldn't help having that extra piece of cake at dinner? That you couldn't' choose not to have tea or coffee in the morning?

I personally feel as if every choice I make changes me. That how I feel about my choices affect my future choices -- that I am, in other words, constantly reprogramming myself. I accept the inevitability of death, but that doesn't prevent me from living, while I'm still alive.

that's not the point.
However, if you insist...

Spoiler

Do you feel that everyone who believes in demons pour hot water on a child, and drowns the child, or some other crazy act?

 

[syo]

A chap in Arizona, Pablo Martinez, believed that his six-year-old son was possessed by a demon, because the boy exploded in a "fit of unnatural rage" at bath time. And so, of course, he poured scalding water down the boy's (presumably unwilling) throat, then held his head under water for 5-10 minutes. Well, naturally, the boy died -- presumably taking the "demon" with him.

I often wish the human species wasn't quite so prone to believing irrational things. It's not always a good thing...

The man probably lied about the demon thing.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

The Christian bible is old and out dated. For religion to progress in our nature we need to understand that the devil, not God, is the tormenter of hell, and then exstinguish the fire of adversity.

Did god create satan/devil? If so, god is 100% responsible for everything satan does.

Unless satan is more powerful...

 

[MonkeyFire]

Did god create satan/devil? If so, god is 100% responsible for everything satan does.

Unless satan is more powerful...

God was passive and hell manipulated and decieved itself into existence, and once God recovers He will use the very same passive equanimity to send the devil and hell back to naught.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

When Faith Healing Kills Kids
Revealed Religion is Killing Children
183 Coffins For Idaho Children Killed By Faith Healing Parents
Letting them die: parents refuse medical help for children in the name of Christ
Some states have had the good senses to ban this atrocious behavior, but not all and not many last I knew. Idaho legally protects it, even.

Thank you so much for those links. Pretty damning, in my view.

I was really appalled to read what former Idaho Rep. Christy Perry (R) said, that "Children do die. I’m not trying to sound callous, but (reformers) want to act as if death is an anomaly. But it’s not — it’s a way of life."

Yes, certainly death is a part of life. But wouldn't be just a little bit better, if there's an available and practical treatment, to put that death off until a child has enjoyed life, lived to adulthood, and had children of their own?

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

God was passive and hell manipulated and decieved itself into existence, and once God recovers He will use the very same passive equanimity to send the devil and hell back to naught.

whaaaaat? That sounds like something out of a C.S. Lewis novella....

Or P. Anthony's Incarnations of Immortality.

Not much of a deity you have there, is it? Good thing it's just a myth...

 

[MonkeyFire]

whaaaaat? That sounds like something out of a C.S. Lewis novella....

Or P. Anthony's Incarnations of Immortality.

Not much of a deity you have there, is it? Good thing it's just a myth...

I'm going to make it into a cartoon called Ninja Jesus.

 

[PruePhillip]

Imo the Christian bible is cryptic and it would take Jesus or st. Michael themselves to decipher it.

True. It is cryptic for specific reasons.
There are two Messiahs in the Old Testament - King and suffering Redeemer.
This baffled the Jews.
And the Messiah will be born in Bethlehem, but Jesus "came from" Galilee
(though we read His parents fled to Egypt and returned to live in northern
Israel)
And when the Jews said Jesus couldn't be the Messiah because he didn't
care for their subjection to Rome, and he came from Nazareth, a bad place
in Galilee - he didn't answer them because his message had no appeal to
their heart.

 

[Windwalker]

He believed the child was possessed by a demon. There is no getting around that fact that his beliefs lead to this incident.

Do all people who believe others who are possessed by a demon, behave towards them as he did? No they do not. Therefore it is not the belief that led to the incident. It was a mental illness that took common beliefs and distorted them into a message that he should kill that person Belief is not the common variable here. Mental illness is. Other mentally ill people do similar things, and use other beliefs as the reason behind it. There is no getting around that fact.

We aren't talking about some remote tribe with little contact with the modern world. We are talking about someone in the US, in the state of Arizona.
And I am aware. Such world views would describe a Bic lighter as "witchcraft" because they didn't understand it, much like how volcanoes and earthquakes got to be a part of supernatural beliefs.

You are wrong that what happened has to do with worldviews.

 

[Kenny]

The article says he wrote this on Facebook. Do you somehow know that he also whispered this into the ears of his victims before he shot them?

The article also says this:


Honestly, the Yahoo News site throwing the word "Atheist" into the article's title seems a bit biased, unnecessary and just plain weird. When another mass-shooting occurs, do the news sources bother pointing out what religion the perpetrator was? I am asking honestly, because I don't know if they do - I have never seen it or don't remember. And in this particular case, the link to the guy's atheism seems tenuous at best. I mean, I understand entirely why you want to grasp onto this instance of a shooting perpetrated by an atheist against those of a particular religion/culture, I do - but when "Yahoo News" has to turn to the follwing in order to justify their portrayal of the crime as an atheistic hate-crime:... you can pretty much know they've got nothing substantial to go on for their theorizing.

Yes... this person is innocent because he is an atheist.
The other is guilty because he mentioned God.

Got it!

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

How have I demonstrated this? Me thinks you are reading into it.

No, because you go on to prove it here.

"They're ritually butchering animals." That means animals are dying for some human's religious beliefs.

Mmm no. That means some animal is dying for a home-cooked meal that someone has placed religious significance on. Did you accidentally miss the bit about the meal, or did you ignore it?

Killing animals for food isn't something many of us have to do,

No, we just expect others to do it for us.

yet we still kill animals to eat them, to amounts that are very much to the detriment of all life on Earth.

Nope. This is vegan propaganda that has zero factual basis.

 

[Curious George]

When Faith Healing Kills Kids
Revealed Religion is Killing Children
183 Coffins For Idaho Children Killed By Faith Healing Parents
Letting them die: parents refuse medical help for children in the name of Christ
Some states have had the good senses to ban this atrocious behavior, but not all and not many last I knew. Idaho legally protects it, even.

Still looking for a specific case of child dying as a result of medical neglect and parents not being prosecuted as a result of a religious exemption.

If we have a specific case we can discuss the details much better.