What can happen when you believe nonsense...

[Shadow Wolf]

I read the original thread. I believe I replied. But just to let you know... Some fundies are legitimately disturbed people. I think I read a science article where a disorder of the brain caused a kind of fundamentalism. However, that doesn't mean ALL fundamentalism is caused by a brain disorder. My parents were good, loving, kind, structured, consistant parents. Sure, they had "too many rules" for my liking. But compared to families that are dysfunctional? Boy did I ever have it good!!!! Baruch HaShem!!!

Throughout that thread are examples of when such beliefs appear to induce mental illness.

 

[Muffled]

Not yet, but I'll check it out.

re: Would breeding licenses work? Needless to say, there'd be a major backlash against it. I just roll the idea out on stage from time to time to rile breeders, who get too sanctimonious over the fact that they have problems which I, as a child-free person, can't and don't appreciate.

I believe right now I am researching my DNA. I am finding that I can inherit a million different things from as many ancestors. True your DNA will reflect your parents DNA but each parent has a million ancestors. So the gene pool one is working with is not the obvious one from the way people look but has much more depth than that and You usually don't get to pick the egg or sperm. Perhaps if you could and you knew what you would get with the DNA then breeding might work. For instance my son only shares 36% of his DNA with his sister yet they have similar appearances.

 

[Muffled]

Religion includes this overly massive "thought" category you just established.

I believe for the Christian He develops the mind of Christ in us. That is a lot different from religion.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Throughout that thread are examples of when such beliefs appear to induce mental illness.

The journal article that I read shows evidence that a certain form of brain dysfunction is correlated with fundamentalism. Not all fundamentalists have this brain dysfunction, so you can't say that fundamentalism itself is a mental illness. It is also true that many who are raised fundamentalist come out of it with various neuroses and need help. But that is not true of all such cases. Again, you cant make a sweeping generalization.

To reiterate, as a teen, I resented all the rules. But they didn't harm me. I had a highly functional and loving family that gave me the foundation for life and helped me weather the rough spots I went through. You can't ask for better than that.

If your experience was different, then I am sorry. I realize that not everyone has my experience. You need to realize that too.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The journal article that I read shows evidence that a certain form of brain dysfunction is correlated with fundamentalism. Not all fundamentalists have this brain dysfunction, so you can't say that fundamentalism itself is a mental illness. It is also true that many who are raised fundamentalist come out of it with various neuroses and need help. But that is not true of all such cases. Again, you cant make a sweeping generalization.

I am not making generalized sweeps. Nor am I ignoring that there does exist a trend of bad outcomes that revolve around holding such beliefs. And when it seems to severe empathy to a child to a point they kill their own child, yes that very much does suggest those beliefs can induce mental illness, much as a poor diet can, "but not always," induce poor physical health. They can believe what they want, but when they start having a negative impact on others it is no longer their right and it has got to stop.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I am not making generalized sweeps. Nor am I ignoring that there does exist a trend of bad outcomes that revolve around holding such beliefs. And when it seems to severe empathy to a child to a point they kill their own child, yes that very much does suggest those beliefs can induce mental illness, much as a poor diet can, "but not always," induce poor physical health. They can believe what they want, but when they start having a negative impact on others it is no longer their right and it has got to stop.

Your analogy is false. It assumes fundamentalism is analogous to a "poor diet," aka that there is something wrong with fundamentalism. You are starting out with the premise that fundamentalism is bad, and then looking for evidence to prove your point. I don't know that I agree with you. I myself am a long long ways from fundamentalism. But I see no more problems in fundamentalism than I see in more liberal forms of religion or in secularism.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Your analogy is false. It assumes fundamentalism is analogous to a "poor diet," aka that there is something wrong with fundamentalism. Y

This OP is but when example when fundamentalism has directly resulted in the death of a child. It also fights to teach religious mythos as science fact, leave teens woefully under educated and I'll prepared for sex, it has children disownimg and abusing their children over bs reasons, its a breeding ground for predators and exploitation, demand they legally be allowed to discriminate, and it tends to involve lots of needless suffering and death. And, BTW, we know strict adherence to dogma isn't good for the human psyche or their relations to the outside world.

You are starting out with the premise

You begin with this idea that I'm under informed about the subject, and haven't invested time and effort into the issue.

But I see no more problems in fundamentalism than I see in more liberal forms of religion or in secularism.

Then your blinder are on because this thread highlights one of the problems of such fundamentalist superstitions.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

This OP is but when example when fundamentalism has directly resulted in the death of a child.

As a counselor, I would say there is a much deeper psychological problem or brain disorder, and that it merely expresses itself superficially through fundamentalism. IOW it was not the fundamentalism per se that caused the child's death. I'm not sure if you can see the distinction.

An analogy would be if someone who has a paranoid personality disorder expresses it by assuming that there is a left wing conspiracy to take over the country, and responds by becoming a recluse in the mountains, stocking up on weapons, booby trapping his home, cutting himself off by having no electricity, no phone, internet, or TV, etc. all in an attempt to survive the coming political apocalypse. It is not politics per se that is the problem, but his underlying paranoia.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

As a counselor

Then why are you suggesting such things? You aren't his counselor. And how do you explain the Nazis? We're they all with deeper psychological disorders? Or did they suffer from "bad thought diet" of strict dogma? It's no different in fundamentalism, where there exist a tendency and trend of otherwise healthy and rational people developing behaviors that would otherwise be described as ill.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Then why are you suggesting such things? You aren't his counselor. And how do you explain the Nazis? We're they all with deeper psychological disorders? Or did they suffer from "bad thought diet" of strict dogma? It's no different in fundamentalism, where there exist a tendency and trend of otherwise healthy and rational people developing behaviors that would otherwise be described as ill.

Oh, I do believe there is such a thing as evil. Not everything is due to psychological disorder, unless you want to call psychopathy a disorder.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Your analogy is false. It assumes fundamentalism is analogous to a "poor diet," aka that there is something wrong with fundamentalism. You are starting out with the premise that fundamentalism is bad, and then looking for evidence to prove your point. I don't know that I agree with you. I myself am a long long ways from fundamentalism. But I see no more problems in fundamentalism than I see in more liberal forms of religion or in secularism.

You are again assuming. The evidence is clear that fundamentalist religious beliefs do tend to be more problematic for others than other, less dogmatic religious beliefs. I'm not looking at saying fundamentalism is bad and then seeing creationism, I saw creationism, and many other things, and reached the conclusion that fundamentalism is potentially problematic. Their anti-sex ed views that they force in the public is about the same as if anti-vaxers got to promote their equally dangerous nonsense in school.
You probably fail to realize I tend to see things that have a trend to directly result in the detrimental outcomes for others as problem at, and probably not as a right because we don't have a right to cause harm to another. And often times we don't. But fundamentalism is one of those things prone to distorting moral compasses and suddenly otherwise healthy and rational people are voting to make life excessively difficult for others. Or strip them of or deny them their rights.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Oh, I do believe there is such a thing as evil. Not everything is due to psychological disorder, unless you want to call psychopathy a disorder.

Technically, it's not a disorder or diagnosis, but it is generally thought of to include a syndrome of sorts with a range of symptoms and comorbide disorders that develop what is generally called a psychopath. And I don't really believe in evil. It's nothing more than a convenient word to describe actions we generally think of as fowl.
What I am saying is, a "bad thought diet" can lead to mental illness, much like conventionally how a bad diet can lead to bad health. Such as, of someone watches the news als develops major depression because they become convinced the world is crime ridden and dangerous. There is nothing otherwise wrong with them, but they are very anxious about the world because of the information they take in. But this deals with demons, faith healing, and dead kids. Bronze Age ethics and homeless children. Fundamentalist religious beliefs beimg enforced to the detriment of civil rights and liberties of others. Public fights to keep fundamentalist religious creation mythos out of science classes.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

You are again assuming. The evidence is clear that fundamentalist religious beliefs do tend to be more problematic for others than other, less dogmatic religious beliefs. I'm not looking at saying fundamentalism is bad and then seeing creationism, I saw creationism, and many other things, and reached the conclusion that fundamentalism is potentially problematic. Their anti-sex ed views that they force in the public is about the same as if anti-vaxers got to promote their equally dangerous nonsense in school.
You probably fail to realize I tend to see things that have a trend to directly result in the detrimental outcomes for others as problem at, and probably not as a right because we don't have a right to cause harm to another. And often times we don't. But fundamentalism is one of those things prone to distorting moral compasses and suddenly otherwise healthy and rational people are voting to make life excessively difficult for others. Or strip them of or deny them their rights.

I don't think I'd say that fundamentalism is more problematic. It simply has a different set of problems and a different set of assets. For example, there was a lot of peace and security for me when I used to have things laid out in black and white -- things are a lot hairier now LOL.

You really can't compare fundamentalism to the anti-vax movement. Fundamentalism is simply a different expression of faith, but with the exception of YEC, doesn't run afoul of known facts. The anti-vax movement is at its heart against the scientific community, believing that it is fostering a giant conspiracy.

It is just outright mistaken to say that fundamentalism distorts the moral compass. I read that the most moral individuals are those at the far extremes--the atheists and the most religious. That would mean that fundamentalists are more moral than those of a less religious nature.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Technically, it's not a disorder or diagnosis, but it is generally thought of to include a syndrome of sorts with a range of symptoms and comorbide disorders that develop what is generally called a psychopath. And I don't really believe in evil. It's nothing more than a convenient word to describe actions we generally think of as fowl.
What I am saying is, a "bad thought diet" can lead to mental illness, much like conventionally how a bad diet can lead to bad health. Such as, of someone watches the news als develops major depression because they become convinced the world is crime ridden and dangerous. There is nothing otherwise wrong with them, but they are very anxious about the world because of the information they take in. But this deals with demons, faith healing, and dead kids. Bronze Age ethics and homeless children. Fundamentalist religious beliefs beimg enforced to the detriment of civil rights and liberties of others. Public fights to keep fundamentalist religious creation mythos out of science classes.

Certainly some of the most common forms of mental illness such as anxiety or depression can be assisted by retraining thoughts. I use cognitive behavioral therapy all the time. Other more serious illnesses such as Bipolar and Schizophrenia are obviously brain disorders.

I'm not sure what you think this has to do with fundamentalism, other than the fact that they have a tendency to spiritualize mental health issues.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It is just outright mistaken to say that fundamentalism distorts the moral compass. I read that the most moral individuals are those at the far extremes--the atheists and the most religious. That would mean that fundamentalists are more moral than those of a less religious nature.

Far extremes are people like Mao, Hitler, and Stalin. They are highly dogmatic, and moral isn't a word I would use to describe them.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I'm not sure what you think this has to do with fundamentalism

It has everything to do with fundamentalism because Fundamentalist Christian parents are known for kicking their LGBT kids out of the house, making LGBT youth a very high risk group for being homeless. Liberal Christian parents are not doing this. Moderate Christian parents are not doing this. Just as those two groups are not killing their children with prayer. Fundamentalists, on the other hand, that is a group with members who do refuse to take their ill child to a doctor, leading to a treatment of prayers with the end result being a dead child.

 

[JJ50]

It has everything to do with fundamentalism because Fundamentalist Christian parents are known for kicking their LGBT kids out of the house, making LGBT youth a very high risk group for being homeless. Liberal Christian parents are not doing this. Moderate Christian parents are not doing this. Just as those two groups are not killing their children with prayer. Fundamentalists, on the other hand, that is a group with members who do refuse to take their ill child to a doctor, leading to a treatment of prayers with the end result being a dead child.

Good post.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I don't think I'd say that fundamentalism is more problematic. It simply has a different set of problems and a different set of assets. For example, there was a lot of peace and security for me when I used to have things laid out in black and white -- things are a lot hairier now LOL.

You really can't compare fundamentalism to the anti-vax movement. Fundamentalism is simply a different expression of faith, but with the exception of YEC, doesn't run afoul of known facts. The anti-vax movement is at its heart against the scientific community, believing that it is fostering a giant conspiracy.

It is just outright mistaken to say that fundamentalism distorts the moral compass. I read that the most moral individuals are those at the far extremes--the atheists and the most religious. That would mean that fundamentalists are more moral than those of a less religious nature.

Sorry to butt in, but I'm not so sure about that.
The people who flew planes into the WTC on 9/11 were fundamentalists.
The people who burned witches and heretics at the stake were fundamentalists.
People who quoted the Bible to support slavery were fundamentalists.
People who bomb reproductive health clinics are fundamentalists.

 

[JJ50]

Sorry to butt in, but I'm not so sure about that.
The people who flew planes into the WTC on 9/11 were fundamentalists.
The people who burned witches and heretics at the stake were fundamentalists.
People who quoted the Bible to support slavery were fundamentalists.
People who bomb reproductive health clinics are fundamentalists.

I agree.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Far extremes are people like Mao, Hitler, and Stalin. They are highly dogmatic, and moral isn't a word I would use to describe them.

I didn't imply all extremes. I mentioned only religious extremes, specifically lack of belief in God, and devotion to God. Try not to go off topic when I say something that makes you uncomfortable.