What convinced you that Evolution is the truth?

[YoursTrue]

But not unlimited resources.

True. Plus things have to be fixed up. Anyway this is slightly out of my league, about the exact details, obviously still waiting and hoping. And believing. I love Handel's Messiah. No preaching there in that beautiful gorgeous work, just scriptures. Yeah. I hope I can meet him someday.

 

[Little Dragon]

I'm not sure your viewpoint can be substantiated. In reference to other species living in balance.

Most ecosystems remain in dynamic equilibrium, with only invasive species causing serious upset to the ecological systems they invade, often brought with humans, when they colonized new areas of the world. Such as Cats, which have decimated hundreds if not thousands of native bird species and other fauna in many places across the globe. As much as I like Cats, they are a menace to anything smaller than them. Again, human fault, not domestic cat fault.

 

[Little Dragon]

I thought about your reply and expressed my hatred of this world today to my husband. He took it in stride as he usually does. But! I reminded him of Louis Armstrong's song and rephrased it to "What a Terrible World." So we're in agreement there...but I'll leave it at that for the moment.

I give up. Stupid tribal mindless short sighted primitive neotenous talking chimps. (Humans)
What can any of us do, but look on in silent dismay and horror.
Still, may as well light a candle than sit in the darkness and curse it. I was overly negative yesterday, sorry to vent. I was allowing emotion to cloud my judgement, once again. I know humanity can do better. That's what is so agonizing. Seeing the potential in great individuals, and then looking at the herd, looking at what happens when people group think. Ah to be alive in interesting times eh?

 

[Little Dragon]

Nah. The history of life is full of species that dominate others, all the way to extinction. Then some other species or force comes along that upsets the apple cart. We are just the first species to be consciously aware of this process.

Species usually go extinct because they are out competed by others within the ecosystem or something climatic or external happens to that ecological system, disrupting it severely.

Humans however...

They are more akin to an invasive species, that rather than adapt to an ecological niche, as practically all other species do. They dominate it and kill off everything in it, competitors, and non competitors alike. With their traps and poisons and other things...

Humans grow mono crops and devastate land with their farms and grazing pastures. They change the environment to suit them. Diverting rivers and damming them. Leveling forests and building on ancient meadows.

Humans are not like the other species of this world. For they do all these things consciously and with impunity. Wholesale.

Humans are the only species that is behind the current mass extinction event, that is ongoing,

 

[Little Dragon]

You hope humanity goes extinct?

I am ambivalent. However I think it would be for the best, for all other living things.

 

[Little Dragon]

All lifeforms "live off" the planetary ecosystem. So by that reasoning all life is parasitic.

Humans destroy ecosystems and reduce biodiversity. They are more akin to a tumour. Their cities, like great spreading concrete scabs, pulsating with necrotic mutated flesh...

 

[Little Dragon]

IMO, the world is neither good nor bad-- it's just a mixture.

Humanity is bad. The natural world is good. (IMO)

 

[Left Coast]

Species usually go extinct because they are out competed by others

Yes, others like homo sapiens. That's what I'm saying. We are the current dominant species. In the past there have been other dominant species. In the future, there may well be yet another dominant species.

Humans however...

They are more akin to an invasive species, that rather than adapt to an ecological niche, as practically all other species do. They dominate it and kill off everything in it, competitors, and non competitors alike. With their traps and poisons and other things...

Humans grow mono crops and devastate land with their farms and grazing pastures. They change the environment to suit them.

Other species also change their environments to suit them. Humans do it more effectively, often without considering the long-term effects of their behaviors.

Humans are not like the other species of this world. For they do all these things consciously and with impunity. Wholesale.

I don't think it's malicious in the way you seem to be implying. There are systemic reasons why it's difficult to alter our behavior now that the toothpaste is out of the tube.

Humans are the only species that is behind the current mass extinction event, that is ongoing,

Sure. And the last 5 mass extinction events happened before humans even existed. The difference now is that we are consciously aware of the problem and have agency to try and fix it. But it's a tough nut to crack in some ways.

 

[Left Coast]

Humanity is bad. The natural world is good. (IMO)

I disagree. Humans are part of the natural world. We have both good and bad in us.

 

[Little Dragon]

I disagree. Humans are part of the natural world. We have both good and bad in us.

I am not talking about right and wrong.

I am talking about the effect humankind has had, on this planet.

 

[Little Dragon]

I don't think it's malicious in the way you seem to be implying.

Indifferent. Which in some ways, is worse.

 

[Left Coast]

I am not talking about right and wrong.

I am talking about the effect mankind has had, on this planet.

Humanity has had both positive and negative effects on the planet.

 

[Little Dragon]

Humanity has had both positive and negative effects on the planet.

Name one positive effect of humanity's presence.

 

[Left Coast]

Indifferent. Which in some ways, is worse.

I don't think most people are even indifferent. I think most people are just trying to get through their day without imploding or going broke.

 

[Little Dragon]

I don't think most people are even indifferent. I think most people are just trying to get through their day without imploding or going broke.

Yes. Well, their own immediate survival will naturally be their primary concern, however that is not all that motivates humans to ruin the ecology. Greed and materialism for example.

 

[Left Coast]

Name one positive effect of humanity's presence.

Art. Science. Our ability to study and understand the past to improve the future.

 

[Little Dragon]

Sure. And the last 5 mass extinction events happened before humans even existed.

Asteroids, mass volcanism and now, bipedal talking hominids.

 

[Left Coast]

Yes. Well, their own immediate survival will naturally be their primary concern, however that is not all that motivates humans to ruin the ecology. Greed and materialism for example.

Greed and materialism are certainly problems. But I don't think they're the whole story.

 

[Little Dragon]

Art. Science. Our ability to study and understand the past to improve the future.

Of what benefit are they to the natural world? How does that make this world a more verdant and biologically diverse planet?
Considering the huge negatives humanity has already bestowed upon the natural world? What possible use is humanity?
Humans are not needed by any life form. Worms matter, Cod matter, Ravens matter...they all have a place in the web of life, the food chains.
Humans are simply top tier consumers. They do not benefit the world in life or death. They are entirely expendable to the planetary ecosystem. Nothing would miss them or depends on them, no food chains would be disaffected. Apart from that of domesticated species, maybe. If all humans died tomorrow, all that would happen is that the natural order would recover and biodiversity loss would cease and the wild begin to regenerate. The 6th mass extinction would come to an abrupt end.

I don't mean to be nasty. I am not trying to be edgy, and I am not [Completely] insane. I am sorry humanity. You're just not what we're looking for. Speaking on behalf of the mute...

 

[Left Coast]

Of what benefit are they to the natural world? How does that make this world a more verdant and biologically diverse planet?

Ah, that's an interesting admission. You think the only positive impact something can have on the world is to make it "more biologically diverse."

I don't agree.

But even on that score, the very fact that you, part of humanity, are bringing up this issue is having a positive effect on people like me who read it and are reminded to make efforts to increase biological diversity.

Art can similarly stir us to value nature. Science gives us the ability to measure and analyze in what ways we're damaging our environment and make measurable efforts to improve things.

Considering the huge negatives humanity has already bestowed upon the natural world? What possible use is humanity?
Humans are not needed by any life form. Worms matter, Cod matter, Ravens matter...they all have a place in the web of life, the food chains.

You don't think humans are part of the food chain? We are.

Humans are simply top tier consumers. They do not benefit the world in life or death. They are entirely expendable to the planetary ecosystem. Nothing would miss them or depends on them, no food chains would be disaffected. Apart from that of domesticated species, maybe. If all humans died tomorrow, all that would happen is that the natural order would recover and biodiversity loss would cease and the wild begin to regenerate. The 6th mass extinction would come to an abrupt end.

I don't mean to be nasty. I am not trying to be edgy, and I am not [Completely] insane. I am sorry humanity. You're just not what we're looking for. Speaking on behalf of the mute...

Speaking on behalf of the 8 billion people you believe are expendable...you underestimate us.