What convinced you that Evolution is the truth?

[YoursTrue]

Some of us don't seem to be evidence in support of that claim. In fact, some people are aligned with groups where exercising the freedom of choice will get you persecuted. Much as my exercise of it here does for me.

I think your view is a bit skewed. Be that as it may, I hope things go well with you and God.

 

[YoursTrue]

Some of us don't seem to be evidence in support of that claim. In fact, some people are aligned with groups where exercising the freedom of choice will get you persecuted. Much as my exercise of it here does for me.

Yeah, well, if you're going to take that attitude, I mean why is it that some groups don't think that the Pope is head of the Christian religion, if you're going to get into what "groups" believe or don't believe?

 

[YoursTrue]

It is your judgement that you are personally bequeathing as the means to reject valid information from rational inquiry. Even the Bible supports rational inquiry.

Are you a scientist? Nothing from what you have posted would lead to that conclusion.

Are you skilled and schooled in the field of biology that your opinions about it are sound, correct and carry the weight to be considered with seriousness? Again, nothing offered indicates that.

Is your understanding of the science of evolution so deep and broad that you can recognize the answers that you want and the sources that you use to be sound and the best answer to the questions, issues and discussions. Once again, the evidence says that is not the case.

So, it is your judgement based on what you want to believe that you are bequeathing on others with the caveat that to not accept it is to defy and dismiss God.

I believe that in all my time with the Lord, the random opinion and arguments from ignorance by other Christians were not related to me as having authority to dictate how the world is. What you are claiming is that, because you claim to believe, everything you say is infallible. I see this from many on here, but I have yet to see it as a fact.

Nothing you have posted shows that you answer his questions except by insulting him. Hopefully you can explain more about your association with the Lord, as you put it, with evidence.

 

[YoursTrue]

And yet you continually fail to present any reason that they do fit or are superior to the explanations that are offered.

I haven't seen evidence presented by those others or by you. Just claims. Your basically saying that any claim that comes close to matching your own is evidence for yours and those that don't are just false. You do this without benefit of evidence.

There is a pot and a kettle here somewhere. Isn't that special.

I think that you have presented claims and have yet to support them as the best answer.

I've heard this many times before by people that cannot provide valid interpretations to the same things. As you have so often demonstrated in defense of my position.

I'm familiar with the claim. I'm not familiar with any evidence that supports it and what are called arguments for that position are weak and unsupportive.

The evidence that has been hashed and rehashed demonstrates that your idea doesn't fit in the grand scheme of things.

So, examples from ignorance. We don't know, so therefore it refutes science and installs any random belief. Then why is my belief or yours so much better than others when neither of us can support it except by fiat.

I don't have to think so, I accept the fact. All the claimed irreducibly complex structures and systems have been shown to be reducible. All that creationist ideas offer is a retreat to what they believe is the next thing until that is demonstrated otherwise and then it is a retreat to the next and so on back.

It was indeed. It refuted the claim of irreducible complexity very well. So much so that I am comfortable that continual reference to it represents how stinging so easy a defeat that it was.

Which brings us back to the initial question. What is the first living organism on the earth and where did it come from? 1. What was the first living organism, and 2. Where did it come from, in other words, what elements? Shouldn't be difficult for you to answer without insulting anyone, thanks.

 

[Saved by grace 2]

So you really have not studied the Bible any more than I have and in fact you have probably studied it less.

I am confused why you would study something you reject, or not believe!

 

[Saved by grace 2]

our colleges might have been humble, but you aren't. You are making assertions that are not true or fact-based. Do you not understand the difference between knowledge and belief? Did your colleges not teach that?

Definition of Knowledge: facts, information, and skills acquired by a person through experience or education; the theoretical or practical understanding of a subject.
My Belief in God has led me to experience his Love, His Forgiveness, his peace, kindness, Joy, and blessings too numerous to count.
I am not required to prove that to you for it to be true. It simply is,

But I fully understand I cannot prove that to you.

I am simply inviting you to put your Faith in God, and HE ALONE will prove it!

But to all who did receive Him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God—
John 1:12

And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him. Hebrews 11:6

 

[metis]

thank you for offering your idea of who or what god is. I am happy I do not share that view,but thanks anyway. It helps to understand what you think.

Thanks. However, the reality is that we simply cannot understand much about God but we can at least appreciate His works.

 

[Saved by grace 2]

Are you a scientist? Nothing from what you have posted would lead to that conclusion.

Never claimed to be. I claim to believe the one who Said he made us. We who actually believe that, with no details of how it exactly was done, do not require a blue print from God to except it as fact.
To anyone including you, Where is this proof?, not assumptions and theorys. Everyone throws out Natural selection, mechanisms, and other terms, which in no way whatsoever explain the very starting point of life. Nor how it is genetically possible for a slug to turn into a fish, and a fish into a dog, and an ape into a human...THERE IS NO PROOF!!!! And to say anything is a blatant LIE!

 

[metis]

Does science claim a god did anything?

It can't if we cannot detect if and how it was done by Him. However, the best we can do is to tell by what we can very much see and understand because we live in the universe/multiverse He hypothetically created. IOW, like scripture says, "You shall know them by their works", and this I believe can also be applied to God as well.

So, In your view, where does God come into the picture? What did God create? (I guarantee you, somewhere along the line, it will conflict with science.)

It depends where you get your information from? Science in no way negates the possibility of God or Gods.

BTW, let me also mention that certainty is the enemy of serious theology. For an exercise of this, try and prove Christianity is correct and that Hinduism must supposedly be wrong. Good luck.

 

[F1fan]

Definition of Knowledge: facts, information, and skills acquired by a person through experience or education; the theoretical or practical understanding of a subject.
My Belief in God has led me to experience his Love, His Forgiveness, his peace, kindness, Joy, and blessings too numerous to count.
I am not required to prove that to you for it to be true. It simply is,

However have you noticed that no one who isn't exposed to the idea of God and Jesus never have expriences of either? This is why Christian missionaries travel to parts of the world that were never exposed to Christianity. So what you might think is some sort of natural knowledge about God and Jesus is really just social learning of ccultural ideas. Notice beleivers who grow un in the Middle East don't think Jesus is the savior. Why? Their social system doesn't teach it. Yours did, and you adopted the idea subconsciously and without critical thought.

But I fully understand I cannot prove that to you.

That's because you never arrived at rational conclusions, you were taught what to believe and you were indoctrinated.

You know WHAT you believe, but you don;t know WHY you ended up believing it. So of course you can't explain it.

I am simply inviting you to put your Faith in God, and HE ALONE will prove it!

Hang around and listen to all the testimonies of atheists like myself. We all were exposed to these ideas as children but were genuine in expecting a God to actually appear. God never does.

We see all sorts of accusations by true believers that skeptics are defective, or didn't give God a chance, etc. But that's the rub, if a God truly knows the mind of all people he would certainly make himself known to the most skeptical. But he is as absent as Santa Claus.

Feel free to explain how God proves he exists to people when he has done no such thing with critical thinkers. Use facts, not dogma.

My prediction is that you have no answers for this either.

 

[Saved by grace 2]

I believe that in all my time with the Lord, the random opinion and arguments from ignorance by other Christians were not related to me as having authority to dictate how the world is. What you are claiming is that, because you claim to believe, everything you say is infallible. I see this from many on here, but I have yet to see it as a fact.

You say you in God, for what purpose? You reject his very first Word to us.....In the Beginning GOD (not natural selection and chance)created the Heavens and the earth!

 

[YoursTrue]

Thanks. However, the reality is that we simply cannot understand much about God but we can at least appreciate His works.

Thank you very much, and I mean that more than just being polite.
But then again -- some would ask for evidence. (oops, that might take us into evolution and science again.)
But thanks anyway despite the possible incursion into the topic of evolution as how it all happened. As some here might bring out, no God needed. I do agree that life itself is beyond understanding except that we live and die, in other words, face death. Of course family members die, we know we face death, the news is filled with the sadness of those who lost their lives in accidents and murders, etc. So here's my question for some -- if death is so natural, why mourn over it? Why make a big deal? (Is that evolved into our brains that we don't want to die? Do gorillas make advance insurance plans providing for their loved ones in case of death?) ok, ok.
P.S. As a musician, when I listen to fabulous music (what I consider fabulous), I think what these musicians might have done if they lived longer. Wow.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I think your view is a bit skewed. Be that as it may, I hope things go well with you and God.

I think my view is more correct than anything you have offered and fitting with the evidence of what you have revealed to me.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Which brings us back to the initial question. What is the first living organism on the earth and where did it come from? 1. What was the first living organism, and 2. Where did it come from, in other words, what elements? Shouldn't be difficult for you to answer without insulting anyone, thanks.

A meaningless question intended to divert. No evidence or reason is offered that this question need be answered in order to know anything.

I leave the insulting to the experts and those that practice it while pretending not to.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

You say you in God, for what purpose? You reject his very first Word to us.....In the Beginning GOD (not natural selection and chance)created the Heavens and the earth!

What?

I don't believe like others do that they are fully knowledgeable of God, His mind and His intent and completely understand every word of the Bible. I don't understand it all and I admit that. I don't wave away seeming contradiction and pretend that I have to have some special power to understand it that others don't even know about.

Is not the world around us also God's Word? Why do you reject that in favor of dogma that you cannot sustain?

 

[YoursTrue]

It can't if we cannot detect if and how it was done by Him. However, the best we can do is to tell by what we can very much see and understand because we live in the universe/multiverse He hypothetically created. IOW, like scripture says, "You shall know them by their works", and this I believe can also be applied to God as well.



It depends where you get your information from? Science in no way negates the possibility of God or Gods.

BTW, let me also mention that certainty is the enemy of serious theology. For an exercise of this, try and prove Christianity is correct and that Hinduism must supposedly be wrong. Good luck.

Metis I'm beginning to like you.
Now, on the other hand, I looked up some things about Spinoza, yes he was banned from the Jewish religion back then, but I think his conclusions are for the most part -- um -- junkie. I remember a class I had years ago in college about medieval history and the instructor said that arranged marriages were a signal of lack of freedom. And civilization has advanced since then. To my astonishment, two orthodox Jewish young men got up and walked out of the class when he said that. (I lived in a culturally diverse area.) I realized that many religious Jews do have arranged marriages even today. Of course that statement was insulting to them, perhaps the instructor learned something from their protest.

 

[YoursTrue]

A meaningless question intended to divert. No evidence or reason is offered that this question need be answered in order to know anything.

I leave the insulting to the experts and those that practice it while pretending not to.

lol, you're somethin', Dan from -- uh -- Smithville. Take care.

 

[YoursTrue]

What?

I don't believe like others do that they are fully knowledgeable of God, His mind and His intent and completely understand every word of the Bible. I don't understand it all and I admit that. I don't wave away seeming contradiction and pretend that I have to have some special power to understand it that others don't even know about.

Is not the world around us also God's Word? Why do you reject that in favor of dogma that you cannot sustain?

I don't know anyone who says they have "full knowledge" of God...eesh...

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Never claimed to be. I claim to believe the one who Said he made us. We who actually believe that, with no details of how it exactly was done, do not require a blue print from God to except it as fact.
To anyone including you, Where is this proof?, not assumptions and theorys. Everyone throws out Natural selection, mechanisms, and other terms, which in no way whatsoever explain the very starting point of life. Nor how it is genetically possible for a slug to turn into a fish, and a fish into a dog, and an ape into a human...THERE IS NO PROOF!!!! And to say anything is a blatant LIE!

I accept your claim. I really don't have anyway to reject it. I don't claim to have the power to know who is and who isn't truly Christian. I know some do.

Asking for proof is the big giveaway that you don't understand science and not understanding, you don't have voice of any authority in the discussions of science. Therefore, anything you claim, you are claiming without benefit of knowledge or understanding. It can be rejected out of hand as nothing.

That you continue this ignorance by equating the evolution of life to the origin of life is another indication muting your voice here.

Now you are capitalizing that indicates to me that what little reason was there is going out the door. So much for the civility that others claim for themselves, but so frequently lack.

I missed that last sentence before I got started writing here. You may want to curtail your need of name calling and claims of lies, when I have no means to know anything about you other than what you claim which may just be claims. Since that is what is insinuated about me, I remind the good folk here that knife cuts both ways.

We established that you do not have the means to declare that anything regarding science is a lie. Do you have anything more than empty claims and dubious accusations? I would say not, since that is the first destination that was sought when challenged.

 

[metis]

Metis I'm beginning to like you.

Oh, you must have a serious mental defect then!

Now, on the other hand, I looked up some things about Spinoza, yes he was banned from the Jewish religion back then, but I think his conclusions are for the most part -- um -- junkie.

What's so "junkie" about his conclusions?

BTW, Einstein stated he believe in "Spinoza's God", so was his opinion "junkie" too?

To my astonishment, two orthodox Jewish young men got up and walked out of the class when he said that. (I lived in a culturally diverse area.) I realized that many religious Jews do have arranged marriages even today. Of course that statement was insulting to them, perhaps the instructor learned something from their protest.

This is not entirely correct and has nothing to do with what we're discussing.