What could Gay Pride teach Muslims about Extremism?

[Mycroft]

In the West, Muslims make up a meaningful portion of our population. But very few non-muslims understand what their beliefs really are, and this has allowed a very skewed interpretation of Islam to become ‘mainstream’ in the minds of Western Citizens.


But what can events like Gay Pride teach Muslims?


A Muslim friend of mine recently asked why homosexuals feel the need to espouse their sexuality on the streets with colourful banners and costumes and floats. I explained to him that they’re not espousing their sexuality. This confused him.

Gay Pride exists because there are still inequality issues that surround the LGBTQ world. And there are still wild misinterpretations about what it means to be homosexual, and what defines sexuality. The purpose of Gay Pride is to firstly remind people that these issues are still current, but also to provide a platform for people to discuss those issues in a way they might not ordinarily be able to do.

Muslims can learn a lot from this. And perhaps there should be a Muslim Pride festival. Perhaps, even, it may be the final solution to combatting extremism.


The problem with Islam is this: not enough non-muslims know much about it in the same way as they might do Christianity or Catholicism. And the reasons for this are as follows:


1) Islam is a lifestyle, too.

In parts of the world where the vast majority of people are Muslim, Islam is as much of a lifestyle - a way of life - as it is a religion. Islam is woven into the very fabric of their society in the same way as the US Constitution is woven into the fabric of American society. For this reason, Muslims, perhaps, tend to just get on with things and live life as best they can in the hope of a better afterlife.

This is all well and good, but it has a dramatic downside in that nobody really discusses Islam in-depth in those countries. Everyone tends to agree with each other. So when one mights suggest that, perhaps, Homosexuals are abominations and that something should be done with it, more people might agree with that than they probably should. Not because they actually believe those things, but because that just seems the norm. Extremism begins when a group of yes-men all agree that illicit interpretations are correct because they don’t bother to question it. I think everyone can agree that in those countries there are not enough Muslims challenging each other, and their faith, and demonstrating that while Islam might disagree with homosexuality, it doesn’t call homosexual people ‘abominations’ (unlike the Bible) nor call for any active retribution against them (unlike the Bible).

2) Western Muslims are too insular.

The problem with Western Muslims is that they are too closed-off and not very approachable (at least seemingly). Everyone knows that you can go into a church any time its open and talk to the priest, or pray, or sit quietly and contemplate the beauty of the stained glass.

Nobody knows that you can do exactly the same with a Mosque. And, in fact, a great many people might believe. quite wrongly, that they’re not ALLOWED inside a Mosque on account of not being Muslim.

3) Muslims are too quiet.

This is by far the most important and relevant problem of our modern times. There are not enough Muslims making a noise about Islam. The only ones that are being vocal about Islam are the non-Muslims extremists who stand on the street corners, go to demonstrations, and shout loudly about their distorted view of what they think Islam is.

The problem is that there are no real muslims launching protests or counter demonstrations. This means that the media has only one opinion on record: that of the extremists. And this has been the case for so long now that the warped and distorted view of Islam is gradually in danger of becoming the mainstream one.


Something like Muslim Pride could be instrumental in thwarting extremism. Such a festival not only highlight the richness and beauty of Muslim culture, but also allows the curious to approach Muslims and ask about their faith in a way they might not feel able to do so just by keeping the Mosques open. It provides a platform for Muslims to talk about what they really believe, and challenge the ideas laid out by extremists.

 

[Jeremy Taylor]

I am not sure I agree non-Christians and non-Catholics know a lot about these faiths in accurate and specific terms. But I agree that more education about religions would be good.

 

[Mycroft]

I am not sure I agree non-Christians and non-Catholics know a lot about these faiths in accurate and specific terms. But I agree that more education about religions would be good.

I'd agree. But what I was saying is that they generally know more about those faiths than they do Islam by comparison.

 

[psychoslice]

I think gays can show extremist how to be happy and gay , not to take the world so serious.

 

[Politesse]

I disagree that Muslims are "too quiet"; I think they are simply ignored by people who wish to portray them in a certain fashion that sells newspapers/extreme politics. Granted I am a religious scholar, but I know way more politically active Muslim conservatives than I do Muslim radicals. Actually, I don't know any Muslim radicals, not to talk to. There are occasional Muslim awareness days and marches and so forth, too, but they do carry personal risk for participants. And the idea of "Muslim pride" would rightfully strike many as antithetical to Muslim values. Pride in humility?

 

[psychoslice]

I think were talking more about extremist, well I am.

 

[Mycroft]

I disagree that Muslims are "too quiet"; I think they are simply ignored by people who wish to portray them in a certain fashion that sells newspapers/extreme politics. Granted I am a religious scholar, but I know way more politically active Muslim conservatives than I do Muslim radicals. Actually, I don't know any Muslim radicals, not to talk to. There are occasional Muslim awareness days and marches and so forth, too, but they do carry personal risk for participants. And the idea of "Muslim pride" would rightfully strike many as antithetical to Muslim values. Pride in humility?

The point is that the reason there's such a push for sexual equality now in the LGBTQ community is that far more people are educated in that subject. That's as a result of things like Gay Pride and protests and demonstrations getting out there, spreading the word, educating people about homosexuality and its causes.

If Muslims did the same thing about their faith, there'd be more dialogue, more questions-asking, more criticism of people like Amjen Choudhury who are not muslim, but that people don't intrinsically know the difference between what is and what isn't part of the Muslim faith. Why? Because there's not enough Muslims challenging these kinds of radicals, and not enough Muslims creating platforms where non-muslims can ask more questions about Islam.

 

[Politesse]

The point is that the reason there's such a push for sexual equality now in the LGBTQ community is that far more people are educated in that subject. That's as a result of things like Gay Pride and protests and demonstrations getting out there, spreading the word, educating people about homosexuality and its causes.

If Muslims did the same thing about their faith, there'd be more dialogue, more questions-asking, more criticism of people like Amjen Choudhury who are not muslim, but that people don't intrinsically know the difference between what is and what isn't part of the Muslim faith. Why? Because there's not enough Muslims challenging these kinds of radicals, and not enough Muslims creating platforms where non-muslims can ask more questions about Islam.

That's a nice little tidy picture about what was really a century of turmoil and suffering. There were riots, political assassinations, thousands of people gassed in Nazi ovens, boys getting crucified on Wyoming fenceposts, and people who were most certainly radical in their approach, that happened during America's long "education" about what gays are. And again, I do not agree that Muslims are unduly quiet. They are silenced, not hiding.

 

[Mycroft]

That's a nice little tidy picture about what was really a century of turmoil and suffering. There were riots, political assassinations, thousands of people gassed in Nazi ovens, boys getting crucified on Wyoming fenceposts, and people who were most certainly radical in their approach, that happened during America's long "education" about what gays are. And again, I do not agree that Muslims are unduly quiet. They are silenced, not hiding.

What about Western Muslims? They're not exactly vociferous themselves, despite having plenty of ways to be so. I agree it's harder if you live in a Muslim country to speak out, but in the West there's too many ways to do it, and to do it anonymously for there to be excuses.

 

[Politesse]

I take it you've never tried to get a minority perspective heard by "everyone" in America. You have to be willing to fight and die to do it; it doesn't happen by playing nice. My homosexual predecessors certainly knew and lived that truth. The people of the Castro didn't just get to start having parades out of the blue. That was a hard, painful, and often violent victory to win. And a great many Americans still don't want to know, and say much the same kinds of things about gays that you are saying about Muslims.

 

[InfiniteZero]

I kind of see where you are going but I think Muslim visibility is more what would help. It will happen, slowly, but we (or the Media, rather) is still stuck in the false dichotomy of the Terrorist versus the Magical Muslim (to borrow the Magical Negro phrase and re-purpose it). Media shows either extreme elements or, alternately, a ludicrously saccharine version of Islam that is boring. That is what normalized homosexuality and the idea of gender as not being bound to genitals (that last bit is a work in progress). The good news, it can be fast. I recall when the only example in the media of LGBT people was the bad guy in Silence of the Lambs.

The issue is, like Politesse mentioned, easier said than done. Everybody wants equality but nobody wants to be the first on the firing line to earn it. I am pretty glad a lot of brave LGBT people came before me. I don't know if I could ever have been as strong as them.

 

[Mitch M]

I am not a Muslim myself but i know that Muslims have a lesson to teach everyone because Where AIDS is rampant, Millions of people are dying and spreading Painful DEATH and terror to others .

Remember that - Where AIDS is rampant, - Islam is virtually absent. Islam itself has nearly stopped Aids in its own regions.. Saving Millions and Millions of Lives from death and pain. Stopping the death of Millions. Islam SAVES Lives/.....

In this - Muslims have a lesson to teach the world. in this regard Although i am not a Muslim. I do not need to a Muslim, to see the facts/

Muslims would like to learn something from gays and there have been very, very few Gays who have been involved in inventing and discovering things. Most Gays are mainly interested in party life, music, drinks, laughing and witty self made phrazes and smart imagination talk. Gays are mostly interested in social manipulation and cultural lingos. and they Hit clubs and bars and parties - in droves with friends and most gays are forever looking for another *( the next ) sex partner to replace the last one. The Average Homosexual goes through hundreds to thousands of sexual partners in their lifetime

28% of homosexual men had more than 1000 partners: "Bell and Weinberg reported evidence of widespread sexual compulsion among homosexual men. 83% of the homosexual men surveyed estimated they had had sex with 50 or more partners in their lifetime, 43% estimated they had sex with 500 or more partners; 28% with 1,000 or more partners. Bell and Weinberg p 308." (exodusglobalalliance.org/ishomosexualityhealthyp60.php''

79% of homosexual men say over half of sex partners are strangers: Surveys say that homosexuals had an average of 500-1,000 partners in their sexually active lifetime, and that some had as many as 20,000.

But the best lesson that we all can learn is that if Muslims continue to Ban Homosexuals in Islamic countries they would continue to STOP the Aids Virus and Diseases. It is TRUE that in Islamic Countries where Islamic Religious Law is not practiced, the Aids Virus is on the rise. I am not Muslim nor condone hurting Gays, however the better and better lesson is in the lives saved by banning the practice of this dangerous behavior. This has been a very valuable lesson. It can also be noted that banning Gay Blood and organ donations has also stopped the spread of Aids.

I do not feel that Gays have any lessons to teach anyone.

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

Muslim Gay Pride? very disturbing

 

[Revoltingest]

I am not a Muslim myself but i know that Muslims have a lesson to teach everyone because Where AIDS is rampant, Millions of people are dying and spreading Painful DEATH and terror to others .
Remember that - Where AIDS is rampant, - Islam is virtually absent. Islam itself has nearly stopped Aids in its own regions.. Saving Millions and Millions of Lives from death and pain. Stopping the death of Millions. Islam SAVES Lives/.....
In this - Muslims have a lesson to teach the world. in this regard Although i am not a Muslim. I do not need to a Muslim, to see the facts/

What would we learn....that repressing/oppressing homosexuals curbs dangerous communicable diseases?
This we already know, but we prefer greater liberty.
I'll wager that Muslim upon Muslim violence is killing far more people these days than is AIDS.
What might we learn from this?

Muslims would like to learn something from gays and there have been very, very few Gays who have been involved in inventing and discovering things. Most Gays are mainly interested in party life, music, drinks, laughing and witty self made phrazes and smart imagination talk. Gays are mostly interested in social manipulation and cultural lingos. and they Hit clubs and bars and parties - in droves with friends and most gays are forever looking for another *( the next ) sex partner to replace the last one. The Average Homosexual goes through hundreds to thousands of sexual partners in their lifetime

This is just a stereotype.
There are a great many gay folk in science & industry.
What greater mind has there been than Alan Turing?

I do not feel that Gays have any lessons to teach anyone.

Lessons are where you find them.
To rule out an entire group is to ignore whatever of value might be offered.

 

[Koldo]

I am not a Muslim myself but i know that Muslims have a lesson to teach everyone because Where AIDS is rampant, Millions of people are dying and spreading Painful DEATH and terror to others .

Remember that - Where AIDS is rampant, - Islam is virtually absent. Islam itself has nearly stopped Aids in its own regions.. Saving Millions and Millions of Lives from death and pain. Stopping the death of Millions. Islam SAVES Lives/.....

In this - Muslims have a lesson to teach the world. in this regard Although i am not a Muslim. I do not need to a Muslim, to see the facts/

Muslims would like to learn something from gays and there have been very, very few Gays who have been involved in inventing and discovering things. Most Gays are mainly interested in party life, music, drinks, laughing and witty self made phrazes and smart imagination talk. Gays are mostly interested in social manipulation and cultural lingos. and they Hit clubs and bars and parties - in droves with friends and most gays are forever looking for another *( the next ) sex partner to replace the last one. The Average Homosexual goes through hundreds to thousands of sexual partners in their lifetime

28% of homosexual men had more than 1000 partners: "Bell and Weinberg reported evidence of widespread sexual compulsion among homosexual men. 83% of the homosexual men surveyed estimated they had had sex with 50 or more partners in their lifetime, 43% estimated they had sex with 500 or more partners; 28% with 1,000 or more partners. Bell and Weinberg p 308." (exodusglobalalliance.org/ishomosexualityhealthyp60.php''

79% of homosexual men say over half of sex partners are strangers: Surveys say that homosexuals had an average of 500-1,000 partners in their sexually active lifetime, and that some had as many as 20,000.

But the best lesson that we all can learn is that if Muslims continue to Ban Homosexuals in Islamic countries they would continue to STOP the Aids Virus and Diseases. It is TRUE that in Islamic Countries where Islamic Religious Law is not practiced, the Aids Virus is on the rise. I am not Muslim nor condone hurting Gays, however the better and better lesson is in the lives saved by banning the practice of this dangerous behavior. This has been a very valuable lesson. It can also be noted that banning Gay Blood and organ donations has also stopped the spread of Aids.

I do not feel that Gays have any lessons to teach anyone.

I could mention that you are quoting an incredibly biased source, and how your source includes an incredibly outdated research.
But rather than talking about that I want to focus on how you have been incredibly trolled if you believe that some men had 20.000 different sexual partners. That's one new partner every single day during nearly 55 years.

 

[Revoltingest]

That's one new partner every single day during nearly 55 years.

No fair using math.
It can reach absurd conclusions.

 

[Unification]

In the West, Muslims make up a meaningful portion of our population. But very few non-muslims understand what their beliefs really are, and this has allowed a very skewed interpretation of Islam to become ‘mainstream’ in the minds of Western Citizens.


But what can events like Gay Pride teach Muslims?


A Muslim friend of mine recently asked why homosexuals feel the need to espouse their sexuality on the streets with colourful banners and costumes and floats. I explained to him that they’re not espousing their sexuality. This confused him.

Gay Pride exists because there are still inequality issues that surround the LGBTQ world. And there are still wild misinterpretations about what it means to be homosexual, and what defines sexuality. The purpose of Gay Pride is to firstly remind people that these issues are still current, but also to provide a platform for people to discuss those issues in a way they might not ordinarily be able to do.

Muslims can learn a lot from this. And perhaps there should be a Muslim Pride festival. Perhaps, even, it may be the final solution to combatting extremism.


The problem with Islam is this: not enough non-muslims know much about it in the same way as they might do Christianity or Catholicism. And the reasons for this are as follows:


1) Islam is a lifestyle, too.

In parts of the world where the vast majority of people are Muslim, Islam is as much of a lifestyle - a way of life - as it is a religion. Islam is woven into the very fabric of their society in the same way as the US Constitution is woven into the fabric of American society. For this reason, Muslims, perhaps, tend to just get on with things and live life as best they can in the hope of a better afterlife.

This is all well and good, but it has a dramatic downside in that nobody really discusses Islam in-depth in those countries. Everyone tends to agree with each other. So when one mights suggest that, perhaps, Homosexuals are abominations and that something should be done with it, more people might agree with that than they probably should. Not because they actually believe those things, but because that just seems the norm. Extremism begins when a group of yes-men all agree that illicit interpretations are correct because they don’t bother to question it. I think everyone can agree that in those countries there are not enough Muslims challenging each other, and their faith, and demonstrating that while Islam might disagree with homosexuality, it doesn’t call homosexual people ‘abominations’ (unlike the Bible) nor call for any active retribution against them (unlike the Bible).

2) Western Muslims are too insular.

The problem with Western Muslims is that they are too closed-off and not very approachable (at least seemingly). Everyone knows that you can go into a church any time its open and talk to the priest, or pray, or sit quietly and contemplate the beauty of the stained glass.

Nobody knows that you can do exactly the same with a Mosque. And, in fact, a great many people might believe. quite wrongly, that they’re not ALLOWED inside a Mosque on account of not being Muslim.

3) Muslims are too quiet.

This is by far the most important and relevant problem of our modern times. There are not enough Muslims making a noise about Islam. The only ones that are being vocal about Islam are the non-Muslims extremists who stand on the street corners, go to demonstrations, and shout loudly about their distorted view of what they think Islam is.

The problem is that there are no real muslims launching protests or counter demonstrations. This means that the media has only one opinion on record: that of the extremists. And this has been the case for so long now that the warped and distorted view of Islam is gradually in danger of becoming the mainstream one.


Something like Muslim Pride could be instrumental in thwarting extremism. Such a festival not only highlight the richness and beauty of Muslim culture, but also allows the curious to approach Muslims and ask about their faith in a way they might not feel able to do so just by keeping the Mosques open. It provides a platform for Muslims to talk about what they really believe, and challenge the ideas laid out by extremists.

Pride isn't the answer. Pride is the reason for discrimination and inequality in the first place. Defeating pride with pride doesn't make sense.

I don't take pride in being "straight." I just am "straight." No pride is needed. Just as no pride is needed in being "gay."

Why not just human being, peace, and equality parades and/or festivals with no labels, no pride, and no judgement?

The problem is pride itself, along with labeling and judging. . And no need for vanity.

 

[Revoltingest]

Pride isn't the answer. Pride is the reason for discrimination and inequality in the first place. Defeating pride with pride doesn't make sense.
I don't take pride in being "straight." I just am "straight." No pride is needed. Just as no pride is needed in being "gay."
Why not just human being, peace, and equality parades and/or festivals with no labels, no pride, and no judgement?
The problem is pride itself, along with labeling and judging. . And no need for vanity.

"Pride" does make sense at times.
For those who formerly hid themselves out of shame or fear, then expressing pride can be embiggening.
They ought do it as long as they need.

I've no pride in being straight.
There's no need....I'm better than they, & I've no need to express that.

 

[Unification]

"Pride" does make sense at times.
For those who formerly hid themselves out of shame or fear, then expressing pride can be embiggening.
They ought do it as long as they need.

I've no pride in being straight.
There's no need....I'm better than they, & I've no need to express that.

I agree as a sense of inner pride to not be afraid or live in guilt or fear of oneself and others judgement, and who they are. Being proud of who one is, rather than vanity pride.

 

[Mitch M]

Homosexuals sometimes have 10 or more sexual partners in just a weekend party. i would not limit math and reality - to Your one a day- ( one step - type theology / thought pattern )

And that's what we are looking at here in this forum. A one step theological mindset that Limits all conversation to a limited parameter. The 20,000 Sexual partners is not a factual Number. it is an estimate based on the ACCOUNTS of gay behavior.

Some gays don't even remember how many people they have had sex with. The Stats are based on approximation only.

The study states that many, many Homosexuals are constantly having sex with strangers. and that some Homosexuals May have had sex with up to somewhere close to 20,000 other men, It is a possibility, Close estimation.

Islam has the lesson for stopping Aids. the Medical field has an answer for stopping the Aids from spreading/

No Blood or organs for Gays - no Gays in islam. The USA has been at war with Muslims for 100 years -

Just in the Iraq War from 2003 to 2010.

Various scientific surveys of Iraqi deaths resulting from the first four years of the Iraq War estimated that between 151,000 to over one million Iraqis died as a result of conflict during this time.

A later study, published in 2011, estimated that approximately 500,000 Iraqis had died as a result of the conflict since the invasion.

112,000-123,000 of those killed being civilian noncombatants.

the USA has been at war with Muslims for the last 100 Years. The First Barbary War (1801–1805), / the Tripolitanian War and the Barbary Coast War, was the first of two Barbary Wars between the United States and the four

the Ottoman Empire, Tripoli, Algiers, and Tunis. The fourth was the independent Sultanate of Morocco.

I don't think that Muslims can gain anything by Learning about having un safe sex and being the highest group with the most diseases.