What Day was Jesus Crucified?

[angellous_evangellous]

What does Jesus being in every book of the Bible have to do with the day he was crucified? I think Smoky is an agent of Satan who is trying to make sane people kill their computers.

I spilled Dr. Pepper on my keyboard because of him and now my Q button barely works and the U button is pretty bad, too.

I think I'm going to sue. I really liked this keyboard.

 

[smokydot]

No, what Smoky is doing is not the norm.
Jonah is the only think that comes close, first because like Christ he was in the grave for three days, and Jesus mentions Jonah as a metaphor of himself.
But the whole idea that Jonah is a Christ-type or a prophesy of Christ (etc) is not normative biblical interpretation for Christians or anyone else.
As for Job, absolutely not.

He thinks his lifetime is the norm.

 

[smokydot]

I spilled Dr. Pepper on my keyboard because of him and now my Q button barely works and the U button is pretty bad, too.

I think I'm going to sue. I really liked this keyboard.

Well, mine is a piece of crap.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Sad. . .so sad. . .

Cry yourself to sleep tonight on your huge pilla.

 

[blue8]

I like your insight as well; however, I think you missed the point of what I was saying. I was not arguing that we can actually know what day. My point is that there are errors in the Bible, and that they should be recognized. More so though, this thread is addressing a point that I've brought up before, and others have argued.

Yes, there are discrepances in the Bible, due to different sources of oral tradition according to which autors were writing those stories. I consider them normal and expected. But that fact does not compromise the value and power of the message in the Bible, as well as belief in transcendental inspiration.

Pardon my english

 

[sparcz1978]

you are asking What Day was Jesus Crucified?

it is not important to know when.. the most important is why did Jesus Christ crucified? for what? and for whom?

even Christmas celebrate every 25th of Dec. but did not mentioned to the Bible the day of His Birth. the Roman Catholics acquired the celebration of the Sun God of Pagans every 25th of Dec and called Christmas to attract the pagans to join in roman catholic church.

 

[smokydot]

I raised this question in another thread. It was claimed that there were no disagreements in the Bible, or the story of Jesus. As I have done on various occasions, I raised this question, on what day was Jesus crucified?
Upon a close examination of the Gospels, this simple question becomes a little difficult. For reference, the translation I will be using for various verses will be the NRSV.
We will begin with what Mark states (I use Mark as Matthew and Luke used Mark as a source and generally agree).
Mark 14:12 "On the first day of Unleavened Bread, when the Passover lamb is sacrificed, his disciples said to him, 'Where do you want us to go and make the preparations for you to eat the Passover?"

In other words, the passage is referring to the Day of Preparation of the Passover; the day before Passover.

"In other words," the passage is not referring to the day of Preparation for the Passover. Mark said, "day of Unleavened Bread," he did not say "day of Preparation."
The "day of Preparation" was the name for every Friday, the day before the Sabbath.
You loosely handle the NT Scriptures in order to slip into them your false assertion. . .and it's not like you have an invested interest in it being false, of course.

Mark 14:12 and Jn 19:14 are in agreement, as shown here ---> http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/2303344-post1160.html

The rest of this post is irrelevant when the "day of Preparation" is correctly understood as the name for every Friday.

Mark 15:25, it still being Passover, tells us that jesus was crucified at nine o'clock in the morning. So clearly, in Mark, and the synoptics follow along, Jesus was crucified on the day of Passover. For instance, Matthew 26:17 states "On the first day of Unleavened Bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying, "where do you want us to make the preparations for your to eat the Passover?"
Another key here is that both Matthew and Mark place the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Break on the day of Preparation of the Passover; the day before Passover. Luke simply lumps it all together: Luke 22:1 "Now the festival of Unleavened Bread, which is called the Passover, was near." There is no doubt that in any of these three accounts, the authors are talking about the festival that lasted 8 days.
It should also be noted that the synoptics all portray the last supper as a Passover meal.
Now, moving to John, we see a difference. John 19:14 "Now it was the day of Preparation for the Passover; and it was about noon." The context of this verse is with Jesus' trial before Pilate. At this point, Jesus had already been flogged, and is now getting the verdict; he will be crucified, as stated in verse 16. So for John, is is the Day of Preparation for the Passover; or the day before Passover, that Jesus is crucified. Clearly, there is a disagreement here.
However, this is not the only evidence we have that Passover had not yet occurred. John 18:28 "Then they took Jesus from Caiaphas to Pilate's headquarters. It was early in the morning. They themselves did not enter the headquarters, so as to avoid ritual defilement and to be able to eat the Passover." Clearly, this shows that Passover had not yet occurred. Since, in the account of John, the last supper had already occurred, there is no way it could have been a Passover meal; according to John.
Now, some have claimed that John 19:31 ["Since it was the day of Preparation, the Jews did not want the bodies left on the cross during the sabbath, especially because that sabbath was a day of great solemnity."] points to the idea that it had to be Passover. However, the main reason for the confusion is a lack of understanding of the terms Day of Preparation for the Passover, and day of Preparation. Some try to combine these two phrases to make them both signify one thing. However, that simply can not logically be done.
The Day of Preparation for the Passover is a term that signifies the day before the Passover. On this day, the sacrificial lamb was slaughtered in the temple. The term can only mean one day, and that is the day before Passover.
The day of Preparation was the day before the Sabbath. In other words, it was Friday. The day of Preparation, and the Day of Preparation for the Passover though could be the same day on occasion. It all has to do with when Passover falls. A big mistake that Christians do is assume that it falls always on a Friday. That simply is not true. We place it on Friday because of theological reasons. However, the Jewish Calendar, and our calendar do not sync up perfectly. For instance, Passover this coming year (2011), Passover will begin at sunset of April 19th, which is a Tuesday.
That is why some translations use the term Special Sabbath. When Passover fell on the Sabbath, it was considered a Special Sabbath.
As we can see then, the synoptics and John disagree on the day in which Jesus is crucified.

 

[smokydot]

Yes, there are discrepances in the Bible, due to different sources of oral tradition according to which autors were writing those stories.

Could you please give an example or two of a material discrepancy.

I consider them normal and expected. But that fact does not compromise the value and power of the message in the Bible, as well as belief in transcendental inspiration.

Pardon my english

 

[smokydot]

I am a biblical scholar, and you're not a competent representative of Reformed theology.

Even if there were a Reformed theologian who believed anything close to what you do, it would be expressed in a more reasonable and conservative manner (avoiding wild speculation), and perhaps it might even be more closely related to historical Christianity.

You might not realize that Christianity existed 1500 years before Reformed theology and another 600 years after that. Reformed theology is just one of many Christian theologies and (guess what) not the most popular.

I know what Reformed theology is, and obviously I don't adhere to it, and even more obviously I don't care that you're sad that I don't follow a theology that I don't believe. To me it's insignificant, useless, dead, and a worthless lump of misinterpretations of Scripture. It started out bad and ended up worse.

Sad. . .so sad. . .

You traffic in a lot of conjecture, in lieu of factual proof. . .the 1646 Westminster Confession of Faith of orthodox Reformed theology is pure Scripture.
If the Confession is insignificant, useless, dead and worthless, then so is Scripture.

Sad. . .so sad. . .you think normative is your lifetime. . .well, Christianity has been around a tad longer than that. . .your lifetime is not its measure.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Sad. . .so sad. . .

You traffic in a lot of conjecture, in lieu of factual proof. . .the 1646 Westminster Confession of Faith of orthodox Reformed theology is pure Scripture.
If the Confession is insignificant, useless, dead and worthless, then so is Scripture.

Sad. . .so sad. . .you think normative is your lifetime. . .well, Christianity has been around a tad longer than that. . .your lifetime is not its measure.

Ah. You didn't read this, where I specifically state that "normative" is not confined to my lifetime:

You might not realize that Christianity existed 1500 years before Reformed theology and another 600 years after that. Reformed theology is just one of many Christian theologies and (guess what) not the most popular.

 

[smokydot]

I am a biblical scholar, and you're not a competent representative of Reformed theology.

Even if there were a Reformed theologian who believed anything close to what you do, it would be expressed in a more reasonable and conservative manner (avoiding wild speculation), and perhaps it might even be more closely related to historical Christianity.

Got any factual proof of your assertion? . .I've got lots of factual proof for my representation of Reformed theology.

You might not realize that Christianity existed 1500 years before Reformed theology and another 600 years after that. Reformed theology is just one of many Christian theologies and (guess what) not the most popular.

Revealed truth is not determined by popularity.
The truth which Jesus revealed shows that.

Ever the font of accuracy and wisdom. . .

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Got any factual proof of your assertion? . .I've got lots of factual proof for my representation of Reformed theology.

For starters, a good theologian would have the integrity not to spam.

Secondly, I've read a good deal of Reformed theology and those writers are far more careful with their words than you are. For example, they would not equate their favorite Confession with Scripture. They also would better understand that their interpretation of Scripture is not Scripture itself.

I'm not saying that you don't have an elementary knowledge of Reformed theology. You just don't express it well.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Ever the font of accuracy and wisdom. . .

Says the bearer of everlasting spam.

 

[blue8]

Could you please give an example or two of a material discrepancy.

Ok, I´ll give you two examples, one from Old Testament and one from New Testament.
First one is about Great flood, Genesis, with a few differences in the same story what can be explained by understanding that this story was combined from two versions written from two traditions, Yahwistic and Elohistic.

26. Noah did / did not take two of every animal into the ark.
27. Noah took fourteen / two of every clean beast. [H, 387]
GEN 6:18, ... you and your sons, your wife and your son's wives, shall go into the ark. 19 Of all other living creatures you shall bring two into the ark, one male and one female, that you may keep them alive with you. (NAB)
GEN 7:2, Of every clean animal, take with you seven pairs, a male and its mate; and of the unclean animals, one pair, a male and its mate. (NAB)
GEN 7:8, Of the clean animals, of the animals that are not clean, of the birds, and of everything that creeps on the ground, 9 two of each, male and female, came to Noah into the ark, as God had commanded Noah. (TAN)
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]GEN 7:15, Pairs of all creatures in which there was the breath of life entered the ark with Noah. 16 Those that entered were male and female, and of all species they came, .... (NAB)[/FONT]


31. The flood lasted 40 / 150days. [H, 415]
GEN 7:17, And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth.
--------------------------------
GEN 7:24, And the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days.


Another example, NT. How many woman came to the sepulchre?


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]472. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]One / two / three / more than three [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]women came to the sepulchre. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif][B, 81-82; H, 391][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]JOH 20:1 The first day of the week cometh [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Mary Magdalene[/FONT] [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.
[[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]NOTE[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]: Compare to John 20:2, "Then she runneth, and cometh to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple, whom Jesus loved, and saith unto them, They have taken away the Lord out of the sepulchre, and [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]we[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] know not where they have laid him." (emphasis mine) - p.b.]
----------------------------------
MAT 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Mary Magdalene and the other Mary[/FONT] [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]to see the sepulchre.
----------------------------------
MAR 16:1 And when the sabbath was past, [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif],[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]and Salome[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif], had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.
----------------------------------
LUK 24:10 It was [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Mary Magdalene, and Joanna, and Mary the mother of James, and other women [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]that were with them, which told these things unto the apostles.[/FONT]

Again, errors, discrepancies and doublets do not deny divine inspiration, that is only due to a human factor.

 

[smokydot]

For starters, a good theologian would have the integrity not to spam.

You now make the rules for theologians?

Secondly, I've read a good deal of Reformed theology and those writers are far more careful with their words than you are. For example, they would not equate their favorite Confession with Scripture. They also would better understand that their interpretation of Scripture is not Scripture itself.

True statements. . .with absolutely no bearing on the issue of my theological agreement with Reformed theologians, or
the issue of the Westminster Confession being pure Scripture.

I'm not saying that you don't have an elementary knowledge of Reformed theology. You just don't express it well.

I am saying you've amply demosntrated that you don't have an elementary knowledge of Scripture or orthodox Reformed theology.

 

[smokydot]

Says the bearer of everlasting spam.

One man's spam is another man's bread of life. . .depends on your disposition.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

One man's spam is another man's bread of life. . .depends on your disposition.

A man would have to be in sad shape to consider your spam "the bread of life."

Interesting how you equate your interpretation of Scripture as Scripture, your confession as Scripture, and your words those of Christ.

I'm just a little shocked because you profess to have a high respect for Scripture, but there are many things (least of all your words) that are on the same level as Scripture.

 

[smokydot]

A man would have to be in sad shape to consider your spam "the bread of life."

Disposition regarding the orthodox Reformed teaching of the NT revealed.

Interesting how you equate your interpretation of Scripture as Scripture, your confession as Scripture, and your words those of Christ.

Not nearly as consequential as your unbelief of the plain words of the NT Scriptures.

I'm just a little shocked because you profess to have a high respect for Scripture, but there are many things (least of all your words) that are on the same level as Scripture.

True statements with absolutely no bearing on the issue of the teachings of Scripture, and your unbelief of the plain words of the NT Scriptures.

 

[smokydot]

The Bible as a whole, through "patterns (prefigures) of things to come" (Heb 10:1) in the NT, shows who Jesus is. And that is why the following are found in its individual books.

The more one is familiar with the Bible, the more one sees the patterns of Jesus in the OT.

**Indicates titles I added to the original list, which came from Christ in Every Book of the Bible, by Oral Roberts.
***Indicates non-doctrinal, non-theological similarity

. . . . . .IN. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .JESUS IS THE. . . . . . . . . . .(NT ANTI-TYPE--fulfillment)

Genesis 3:15- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Promised seed of the woman (Lk 1:31, 34; Ro 16:20)
- - - - - 12:3, 22:18**- - - - - - - - - -- - - - - - Blessing of all nations through Abraham (Gal 3:8-9)
Exodus 12:6- - - - - - - - - -- - - - - - - - - - - -Passover Lamb (1 Co 5:7)
- - - - - 13:21-22**- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Pillar of cloud, pillar of fire--God's presence among his people (Emmanuel--God with us, Mt 1:22-23)
- - - - - 14:22-29**- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Baptized into their mediator, deliverer and leader in the cloud and in the sea, depicting their submission to him (1 Co 10:1-2)
- - - - - 20:19 (Dt 5:5)**- - - - - - - - - - - - - - Mediator of (new) covenant (Gal 3:9; Heb 8:6-13, 9:15)
- - - - - 32:9-14, 30-34- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Intercessor (like Moses and High Priest) -- Ro 8:34; Heb 7:23-25, 9:24
Leviticus 1:5, 3:2, 8, 13**- - - - - - - - - - - - -Blood which cleanses from all sin (1 Jn 1:7)
- - - - - - 3:15**- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Once-for-all perfect atoning sacrifice (Heb 7:27, 9:28, 10:12)
- - - - - -21:10, 21-23- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Perfect High Priest (Heb 7:24-28, 9:11)
- - - - - -23:9-11**- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Firstfruits of the resurrection (1 Co 15:22-23)
Numbers 20:11 (Ex 17:6)- - - - - - - - - - - - - -Rock which was struck (crucifixion), and source of sustenance (1 Co 10:4)
Deuteronomy 18:15, 18- - - - - - - - - - - - - - Prophet like Moses who was to come (Jn 6:14-15, 7:40, 1:21, 25; Lk 7:19-20, 24:19)
- - - - - - - - - -21:23**- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Cursed for us on a tree -- (Gal 3:13)
Joshua 1:5-11- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Captain of our salvation, leading God's people into the promised inheritance (salvation) -- (Heb 2:10)
Judges 2:16-23- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Judge (Jn 5:22)
- - - - -2:16, 18**- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Deliverer (2 Co 1:10; 1 Th 1:10)
Ruth 2:20- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - GOEL, kinsman redeemer (Lev 25:48-49) -- (Mt 1:21; Gal 4:4-5; 1 Pe 1:18-19)
I Samuel 2:21b, 26, 3:19, 7:5-6, 8-9- - - - - - Trusted prophet (Mt 12:41-42, 21:11, 46; Lk 1:76, 7:16; Jn 7:40)
I Kings 1:43-45- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Reigning King (1 Co 15:25)
Nehemiah 2:5, 17-18- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Restorer of what was lost (Ro 8:19-22; 2 Co 5:17)
Esther 7:3-4- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Our advocate with the Sovereign (1 Jn 2:1)
Job 1:8, 12**- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Afflicted Righteous One (Ac 3:14, 7:52; Mt 27:46; 1 Jn 2:1)
Psalm 23- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -The Lord, our Shepherd (Mt 2:6, 26:31; Jn 10:11, 14)
Proverbs, chp 8- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Our true wisdom (1 Co 1:24, 30; Col 2:2-3)
Ecclesiastes 1:2, 12:8, 1-7, 13-14- - - - - - - - Meaningful goal (Mt 6:33, 13:44-46, 16:26)
Song of Songs 1:13, 4:5, 7:1-13, 3:11- - - - - -Lover and bridegroom (Mt 25:1-10, 22:2; Jn 3:29; Rev 19:7-9)
Isaiah 9:6- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Prince of Peace (Ac 10:36; Ro 5:1; Eph 2:13-16; 2 Th 3:16; Lk 1:79, 24:36; Jn 14:27)
Jeremiah 9:1, 13:17- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Weeping prophet (Lk 19:41-44)
Ezekiel 1:4-14- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Glorious creature (2 Sam 22:7-15; Dan 7:9-13) -- (Rev 4:6-8, 1:13-15, 2:18)
Daniel 3:22-25, 28-30- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Fourth man in fiery furnace (pious thought)
Hosea 3:1, 2:6-9, 1-7- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Eternal husband who restores the fallen bride (Ro 3:10-18, 5:19; Eph 2:1-5)
Joel 2:28-29, 32- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Baptizer with the Holy Spirit (Mt 3:11; Ac 2:16-21; Ro 10:13)
Amos 2:13- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Divine burden bearer (1 Pe 2:24; Mt 8:17; Heb 9:28)
Obadiah 15-18, 21-- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Savior from and destroyer of the enemy (Mt 1:21; Lk 2:11, 19:10; Jn 3:17; Lk 10:18; Ro 16:20; Rev 12:10-11)
Jonah 3:4, 10- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Message of God's salvation to the Gentiles (Mt 28:19; Lk 24:27; Jn 3:36)
Micah 1:2, 6-7, 12, 6:1-2- - - - - - - - - - - - - -Avenger (Mt 3:10, 12, 24:50-51, 25:30, 41; Lk 19:27)
- - - - -5:2**- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Shepherd ruler from Bethlehem (Mt 2:6, 26:31; Jn 10-11, 14; Lk 2:4-6)
Nahum 1:15 (Is 52:7)- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Messenger with beautiful feet (Ro 10:15)
Habakkuk 1:2-4, 13-17***- - - - - - - - - - - - - -Evangelist pleading for revival (Mt 23:37)
Zephaniah 3:17- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - The Lord Mighty to Save (Mt 1:21; Jn 12:47b; 1 Tim 1:15; 2 Tim 1:8-9; Heb 7:25)
Haggai 2:3-4, 7-9, 23- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Restorer of the lost heritage (signet ring = seal, pledge or guarantee--Gen 38:17-18--of restoration) -- (Jn 5:24, 6:40, 10:28)
Zechariah 3:8-9, 6:12-13 (Is 4:2; Jer 23:5)**- Branch (sheaf) offered as Firstfruits (Lev 23:9-11) of resurrection (1 Co 15:22-23)
- - - - - - -13:1- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Fountain opened in the house of David for cleansing of sin (1 Jn 1:7; Heb 9:14)
Malachi 4:2- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Sun of Righteousness rising with healing in its wings (Lk 1:78; Eph 5:14; Mt 4:23, 8:16, 14:14, 15:30)

Now to these 45 types add all the OT prophecies which the NT writers claim that Jesus fulfilled, of which only those from Matthew are shown in
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/2359396-post1467.html

The links among the books of the OT and the NT are so strong, numerous and thorough that they leave no doubt about the unity of the Bible as a whole.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

This again?


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New drinking game: every time smoky spams, take a shot!