What do Atheists Want?

[Jacob Samuelson]

I assure you that you do not have a deeper understanding of my own mind than I do but if you're so sure that you know what I "truly want," then why do you waste my time asking me what I want?

You don't know what I want. You won't even listen when I try to tell you so you probably can't ever really know what I want. Good luck with your one-sided conversations.

I'm not the apathetic stoic here Ella. Although strictly speaking, I believe your life is far more intricate than you are allowing yourself to believe which is a one-sided shame. If I were to tell you that you would have beauty, health, and influence for eternity and it wouldn't just mean something to others but to yourself as well and you don't want that to be the case than it is apparent that you are really stuck on the surface of things. Not saying it's bad just saying I think you deserve more credit than your giving yourself is all. Just as a guy playing Tetris has more to offer than getting a temporary high score for a couple days. You want temporary. I want permeant. Is that the only difference between us I wonder?

 

[Jacob Samuelson]

If you could ask one question related to Scripture, and have it answered what it would it be?

That's too hard. I would want see everything first hand, how it went down but I don't know if I have any questions that I would want answered because it might ruin the surprise. What question would you ask Ludi?

 

[blü 2]

If we are to accept God as only fully Omnipotent and only fully Omniscient than we have created a hypothetical paradox in our minds that won't be resolved until we allow two biblical truths into our minds. 1. He cannot know exactly what your outcome will be since or before you were conceived. (No predestination) 2. He cannot force you to do anything outside your own agency.

But God is not just omnipotent and omniscient, [he]'s also perfect. Therefore when [he] created the universe, [he] already knew, and already intended, everything down to the most perfect detail that would ever happen, including the typo I just corrected. Nothing, no one, can deviate even to the tiniest degree, from what [he] perfectly foresaw and intended and (being perfect and therefore never needing to change [his] mind) still intends and always will intend.

If you think about it, they are really one in the same conceptually. If he knew exactly what you would do than to him judgement has already been sentenced since you cried your first cry.

As I said, [he]'d already seen to that by creating the universe exactly as [he] did.

If he altered your agency in any way, than he would have been responsible for your entire life and would then lie about being a God who is perfect.

[He] didn't alter anything, because being perfect [he]'d never have to. Therefore (just as is the case with scientific determinism) our sense of making and owning our own decisions is a useful illusion, deeply ingrained so that we never notice what our brains are actually doing, and how little they report to our conscious awareness. And we operate our society and our systems of law on that basis too. As you'll have noticed, one consequence of our growing awareness of how brains work is that mental states are more frequently argued, and are more frequently subject to expert opinions, in law than ever they used to be.\

So even if it turns out there's a God and that God isn't omniscient omnipotent perfect, we'll still be stuck with the fact that we're made and raised in very particular ways and environments which produce our thoughts and actions and that not everyone will, simply as a matter of their physical composition, behave normally or "properly".

 

[blü 2]

You forgot Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

I didn't leave that out by accident. I was quoting the part I agreed with.

Interesting that the idea is expressed as a sort of external life force. The analogy with "breath" is constant, from Hebrew "ruach" to Greek "pneuma" to Latin "spiritus".

 

[RestlessSoul]

Have you ever played Tetris?

In Tetris, one has to quickly move puzzle-pieces called "tetrimonos" in an attempt to form a line as they "drop" from the top of the screen. Every time you make a straight, horizontal line from one side of the playing field to the other out of the tetrimonos, the line is erased and all of the pieces of the remaining tetrimonos above that line drop down.

If you fail to make a line for too long, the tetrimonos keep dropping and end up stacking on top of one another until they reach the top of the screen. Once they reach the top of the screen, the game ends and prints you a high score.

What is it that people playing Tetris want? Well, they want to play Tetris, that's why they play it.

But what are they avoiding, while playing Tetris? What are we escaping from, from when we immerse ourselves in escapist activities?

 

[RestlessSoul]

I didn't leave that out by accident. I was quoting the part I agreed with.

Interesting that the idea is expressed as a sort of external life force. The analogy with "breath" is constant, from Hebrew "ruach" to Greek "pneuma" to Latin "spiritus".

Yes, that is interesting.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I have been thinking lately about the collective responses that I receive from those who reject the God narratives.

I will be the first to concede any debate against my Atheist friends as their grasp to reality is what keeps them grounded and their attention to humanly influence and scientific evidences are crucial to holding less to fantasy and more to the world and the physicality around them. Who can blame a person that would rather devote their life to science books than fantasy? Aren't their interests just as valid?

I can imagine that to the Atheist, whether God exists or not, the mere reasoning behind the way He does things wouldn't be something they could worship or admire. I could see an Atheists conversation with God after death be something like this: "Could you blame me? You had built a world that had so much evil and death inside it, when you could have made it like _________.

I am sure Atheist would love to have a conversation with God. To hear his response to their complaints about what happened and why they happened that way. Heck, I think Theists would eavesdrop in as well to that dialogue.

I believe in a God that does reason with people. We give him the title of Righteous Judge for a reason. He will hear out your side to the sentencing and based on whether He feels you have had sufficient evidence or not will judge you as fairly as possible, better so, than any person could fathom in today's judicial systems.

So is that what Atheists want? Why do they even join this Religious Forum I wonder? Do they want to live forever being right? Or do they want to live forever feeling wronged?

The truth is, whether you believe in God or not, you will die. I'm sorry for the spoiler alert to some of you. When that happens, will Atheists and Theists get what they want? I can only speak as a theist. What do Atheist think?

I don't know what happens when we die. I believe we die,

 

[Ludi]

Probably one I already knew the answer to, why is He so hard on me.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Which is precisely why I have a hard time believing you can be atheist and still a participant in this forum. There has to be a reason you are answering my question if you are atheist. What is it?

Because I understand religion as not just about the supernatural. I am an atheist, yet religious.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I am not assuming anything, rather questioning what Atheists want If it is not the God stories and the promise of an afterlife? Want to know what?

I would like to know what objective reality is,

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

It is entertaining for me to, but I can watch YouTube for that and be completely satisfied. To immerse yourself in religious topics is another level entirely.

Yeah, but to me religion is about value systems, not just gods.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Is it logical for the teetsy fly to continue its existence? Should it not go extinct?

Could you elaborate on this?

 

[Altfish]

What do Atheists Want?

Less interference/influence of my life by religion. Keep the world secular.

 

[Altfish]

Yeah, but to me religion is about value systems, not just gods.

You don't need religion to have a value system

 

[Shadow Wolf]

What is it that people playing Tetris want? Well, they want to play Tetris, that's why they play it.

No, I want to pack five rooms worth of stuff in a one room storage unit.

That is only on the surface. Playing Tetris isn't fulfilling the want. The want is to get rid of boredom or to release dopamine and adrenaline that they can't release anywhere else. If you want only go as deep as the Tetris be my guest, but when you really understand that it is not that simple and there are real desires and superficial desires.

Actually I play it to play it. I enjoy Tetris. It's a game that involves brain power. I enjoy those.
As Freud said, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

 

[Ludi]

Now although no remembers this, when you were born, you came to LIFE in the purely conscious ENERGY, that was coming from Jesus, and you were perfectly ALIVE. And that ENERGY was combined WITHIN the LIVIVING ENERGY of CREATION itself, coming from His Father. The Father and the Son. Now when you went into 'self, that ENERGY then became hidden, as your subconscious. Now to this day man has been unable to find the source of consciousness, what creates it. We only know that when it is present you are alive, and when it leaves, the body dies. Now these things are related to what Jesus told us in John, What is born of flesh is flesh, and what is born of spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I told you, 'You must be born from above.' The wind blows where it wills, and you can hear the sound it makes, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes; so it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit." Now this Spirit, which is consciousness itself, that comes from Jesus, has nothing to do with the flesh. Which is why we have been unable to find its source. This is also why Jesus says, "It is the spirit that gives life, while the flesh is of no avail." This also being related to why Jesus said, On that day you will realize that I am in My Father, and you are in me, and I in you." As even after you go into self, this LIFE that Jesus gives you at birth always remains exactly the same, perfectly ALIVE, and within His Father's ENERGY. And why Jesus praised His Father for hiding these things from the wise and the learned, and revealing them to the childlike.

 

[osgart]

I think atheists just want freedom from religion. As an atheist I don't want to live under the rules of an ancient religion created by humans with a poor moral foundation. Since religion spreads and seeks out converts, it's only healthy to oppose religion on a religious forum to try to get people to see some of these religions for what they are. Religion, often enough is oppressive and doesn't encourage independent thinking.

If there is a good reason to believe in God I would also love to hear that.

I have an independent spiritual outlook on life and I want to see about other views of spirituality.

I thought it was obvious that many religions create adversaries of non believers. So as an unintended adversary of religion, I seek out the reasons for all the hostility.

Why would an all loving God seek out the demise of non believers? Non belief is an honest position.

 

[Mock Turtle]

In answer to the title - perhaps a good life as much as anyone else might - with 'good' being rather subjective.

I have been thinking lately about the collective responses that I receive from those who reject the God narratives.

I will be the first to concede any debate against my Atheist friends as their grasp to reality is what keeps them grounded and their attention to humanly influence and scientific evidences are crucial to holding less to fantasy and more to the world and the physicality around them. Who can blame a person that would rather devote their life to science books than fantasy? Aren't their interests just as valid?

Especially so if most or all of the religious narratives are fantasy - given that they cannot all be correct. Don't know your background, but if you were born elsewhere (Iran or India, for example) do you think you would have the same religious beliefs you have now? And given your age, you might have had such throughout your childhood perhaps, through education and such.

I can imagine that to the Atheist, whether God exists or not, the mere reasoning behind the way He does things wouldn't be something they could worship or admire. I could see an Atheists conversation with God after death be something like this: "Could you blame me? You had built a world that had so much evil and death inside it, when you could have made it like _________.

I am sure Atheist would love to have a conversation with God. To hear his response to their complaints about what happened and why they happened that way. Heck, I think Theists would eavesdrop in as well to that dialogue.

With so many propositions as to which God behaves in what manner, it hardly matters to an atheist I would imagine, given they suspect all such is just projection from the various different faiths. How could they (the atheists) - and being so presumptuous of them - make any sort of judgement as to in what manner any Gods might behave?

If many atheists are much like me then they will have worked out why humans behave as they do - because we are all human, have aspects of ourselves that we are born with, together with an evolutionary heritage as a species, and also, we are often affected as to what happens in our early lives. Such that God doesn't enter into it unless the person acting is motivated directly or indirectly by such religious beliefs, given that humans whether religious or not, can still simply behave like all other humans.

I believe in a God that does reason with people. We give him the title of Righteous Judge for a reason. He will hear out your side to the sentencing and based on whether He feels you have had sufficient evidence or not will judge you as fairly as possible, better so, than any person could fathom in today's judicial systems.

Very nice of God. So when something happens during childhood that has a big impact on one's life - and often causes one to go astray - then God will be forgiving? Given that a child - not being an adult, and not having all that we expect of adults - would hardly be expected to make a valid decision as to such on their own - even if they knew they were at such a point.

So is that what Atheists want? Why do they even join this Religious Forum I wonder? Do they want to live forever being right? Or do they want to live forever feeling wronged?

Want? I'm sure most atheists will accept whatever happens - perhaps being more realistic than some of the religious believers - again, since they can't all be correct. Being right and wrong is vanity - and perhaps you need to look in the mirror.

Religions are possibly the greatest influence, and control for so many, on Earth, so why wouldn't anyone want to understand such? Wouldn't it be dereliction of duty to just ignore or accept views alien to one's own thinking - as if we could do such?

I think the many non-believers on RF do try to understand why and where so many believers get their beliefs from, and as to any truths, especially when such often does conflict as to what science tends to show us. Unless you haven't noticed those here who can't even believe in the quite well established theory of evolution. You might be one, given that your religion apparently believes in the literal truth of Adam and Eve. If so, at what point in history did our ancestors suddenly start becoming human and eligible as to entering into Heaven? Unless you too don't believe in this theory?

The truth is, whether you believe in God or not, you will die. I'm sorry for the spoiler alert to some of you. When that happens, will Atheists and Theists get what they want? I can only speak as a theist. What do Atheist think?

Not news to me (as to dying), and it was quite a shock to me when I found out as a young boy. Perhaps that was when I preferred, and chose, the path of reality but where some were happy with the various myths of eternal life - being such a comforter.

Whatever happens, we will get what is reality. No God - what will you get? Nothing - just like the rest of us.

You have chosen to believe one out of several thousand different religious beliefs. Good luck.

 

[Nimos]

I am not assuming anything, rather questioning what Atheists want If it is not the God stories and the promise of an afterlife? Want to know what?

We don't believe in there being God(s), I guess an atheist could believe in an afterlife, but that such thing wouldn't come from a God. But I would imagine that it is the few rather than the many who would believe that to be the case.

So an atheist doesn't want anything from God(s), in the same way as you probably wouldn't want anything from big foots, if you don't believe that they exist. In general atheists are interested in finding out, challenging or being skeptical about the truth made by religions, as a direct result of how they impact ours and other people life.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

You don't need religion to have a value system

I use an anthropological definition of religion. You use another.