What do Jews find strange about Christianity and why.

[pearl]

I've posted this list 3 times now and I notice no-one Christian pays it much heed. All I hear is 'These things happened but not in the way you thought.' or 'Next time.' Are there any Christians who accept that The Messiah is going to be a real ruler who will bring real world changes and will really unite the Israelites back in their land? If not, I really don't know what their messiah is for.

Through Jesus the God of Israel is known throughout the nations. Jesus, as its messenger, announced the 'kingdom of God' is at hand, will the Messiah be its deliver.

 

[Rival]

Through Jesus the God of Israel is known throughout the nations. Jesus, as its messenger, announced the 'kingdom of God' is at hand, will the Messiah be its deliver.

I'm sorry, I can't make any sense of what you are trying to say.

 

[rosends]

Please point out the part where it says the content doesn't change.

It says that what will be inscribed on the hearts is the Torah, not anything else (verse 32). It also says that only when the laws are nullified would the Jews stop being his people (and that that would only happen if someone could possibly measure the heavens -- IOW, it isn't happening, so the Jews are still his people, and the laws are still in effect). So the laws aren't nullified and they will be inscribed on the hearts of the Jews. You might want to compare this with LEV 26:44-45.

 

[dybmh]

No need to drop it. It is true. There would be a new covenant.

Here's my problem with the whole Jeremiah 31:31 thing...

The verse is speaking about a covenant, a contract between two parties.

The new testament is what? ... testamony. One person's sworn account of what happened?

 

[Deeje]

@Deeje,

I second @Harel13's recent post. What's missing from your posts in this thread, IMHO, is empathy. It seems like your desire is to criticize, not for understanding at all.

I'm starting to wonder if criticizing Jews and Judaism is part of your religious belief.

Definitely not....as one who belongs to a faith that is criticized by everyone, I understand what it means when people misinterpret your beliefs and misunderstand your activities.

I genuinely wanted to see how Jewish people justify their beliefs and practices.....as I said, I have no Jewish people here to ask questions to.

If I criticize, it is because the scriptures we hold in common are interpreted by us in a very different way.....not by me as non-Hebrew speaking Christian, but according to the one whose explanations and life were immersed in Judaism from the day he was born. As a devout Jew, Jesus did not condone the beliefs and practices of the Jewish leaders of his day, and took every opportunity to expose them as hypocrites. By what I can see nothing much has changed in the attitude of the Jewish leadership since then. It has remained consistent down through time.

From my understanding, according to Jewish websites and from the responses of some Jewish posters here, I see a strict adherence to what your sages have said, even though you seem to be able to pick and choose whose opinion you favor. I don't think that a spiritual 'lucky dip' is what God had in mind when he gave Israel his laws. It should not be a case of whether one obeys the laws more strictly than their Jewish brothers, but whether some are going to extremes in the small things but letting the big things slide. (gnats and camels)

Take politics for example....as I have mentioned before, a Jew on one side of a nationalistic conflict can kill his brother over a political divide. The same is true in Christendom.....does God's law ever allow for a situation like that to take place? Loving our "brothers" is an obligation. Christ's teaching is that we are to be NO part of the political world because we cannot ever be responsible for killing our brothers or any other innocent people, therefore he told us to put down our weapons and remain politically neutral. If we support our nation's bloodshed, we are still held accountable because we probably voted them into office. Neutrality is a safe place to be. God has not sanctioned a war since the days when ancient Israel protected her boundaries. Jews are no longer held by those boundaries.

As Christians, we can never join the military to even train to kill because that shows intent to take human life, and warfare all too often involves the death of innocents. You know that even one guilty of manslaughter was held accountable under God's law. What of those who drop bombs on cities or fire missiles and kill women and children? Is that viewed as 'collateral damage' by today's Jews and a Christians? Is it viewed that way by God? You see, this is how I evaluate any religion.....how do they respond when their governments are declaring a war? Israel is no longer just a land that is inhabited by Jews and proselytes, the Israel of today is a political nation, blood spillers like all the rest. (Isaiah 1:15) Ancient Israel sometimes allied herself with other nations for political benefit, but they were punished by God because it showed a complete lack of faith and reliance on God to act as her deliverer. Who is Israel's greatest ally today? It's the despised Christians.

Today we have to recognize the difference between a "peacemaker" and a "peacekeeper" because the "peacekeeper" of today has tanks and weapons. That is not the way to attain peace.....because the malice remains and festers until it breaks out in conflict again.

True peace and security on this earth can only be attained by means of Messiah's Kingdom, crushing all opposers and establishing its rulership over the whole earth as it is prophesied to happen. In the book of Daniel it tells us about the march of world powers leading to the establishment of God's Kingdom.....it will come in the time of present day rulers, according to his prophesy. (Daniel 2:31-44)

If this is to take place, (and Jesus tells us so much more detail about this event,) then like the people of Noah's day, the majority will not believe that it is coming and will be caught unawares. Noah preached to the people of his day about God's intentions all the while that he was constructing the ark, but the people took no notice 'until the flood came and swept them all away'. Jesus said that his return would be heralded by similar circumstances (a prevalence of violence and immorality, selfishness and greed) and a similar attitude in people who would rather carry on their immoral lives, than alter their behavior. (Matthew 24:37-39)

If I am in a similar situation to Noah and I see what is coming but the majority do not, then am I off the hook as regards warning people about near future events? A great many already see that a huge collapse is imminent and it will usher in conditions ripe for the implementation of a new governmental system that will take control of the whole world. All of the elements are now in place, and Jesus warned of an international cry of "peace and security".....but it will result in world chaos. This supposed "one world government" under the UN will rule with an iron fist and take away every freedom that humans have ever fought for. This is not a plot for a bad novel of fiction, but the future of our modern day society. It is coming...ready or not.

If I can expose the rot, even a little bit so that some might wake up and see what is happening, there is still time to get on board the figurative "ark" and survive what will be the most catastrophic event in the history of mankind since the flood. (Matthew 24:21)

This is my only agenda here..... Criticism for the sake of it achieves nothing.

Knowledge is power, but ability to implement knowledge is what will save us. It requires action.

 

[dybmh]

If I criticize, it is because the scriptures we hold in common are interpreted by us in a very different way.....not by me as non-Hebrew speaking Christian, but according to the one whose explanations and life were immersed in Judaism from the day he was born. As a devout Jew, Jesus did not condone the beliefs and practices of the Jewish leaders of his day, and took every opportunity to expose them as hypocrites. By what I can see nothing much has changed in the attitude of the Jewish leadership since then. It has remained consistent down through time.

Translation: "If I criticize, it's because of what Jesus said".

In other words, you're religious beliefs govern your criticism. It's not from knowledge or first hand experience with Jewish people. You've said so yourself. In this way, it's no different from Muslims who are critical of Jews because of what's in the Qur'an, or Baha'i who are critical of Jews because of what Bahaullah wrote... it's part of their religion. And I think it's part of yours too. But I don't hold you in any disregard because of it. It's just the narrative, as faras I'm concerned. I'm happy to ignore it.

From my understanding, according to Jewish websites and from the responses of some Jewish posters here, I see a strict adherence to what your sages have said, even though you seem to be able to pick and choose whose opinion you favor.

Each of us supports Jewish people being strictly observant if they chose to do so. We are... drum-roll ... pro-Jewish. We "strictly adhere" to Judaism. Just as much as it's apparently part of your religion to criticize us, it's part of our religion to support ourselves.

I don't think that a spiritual 'lucky dip' is what God had in mind when he gave Israel his laws. It should not be a case of whether one obeys the laws more strictly than their Jewish brothers, but whether some are going to extremes in the small things but letting the big things slide. (gnats and camels)

You lost me on the "luck dip" comment... sorry.. Also... what big things are being ignored? And do you have first hand knowledge of those things? Or is it presumed?

If I am in a similar situation to Noah and I see what is coming but the majority do not, then am I off the hook as regards warning people about near future events?

Yes. You're off the hook.

If I can expose the rot, even a little bit so that some might wake up and see what is happening, there is still time to get on board the figurative "ark" and survive what will be the most catastrophic event in the history of mankind since the flood. (Matthew 24:21)

That's why I like you.

This is my only agenda here..... Criticism for the sake of it achieves nothing.

I think it's good that you know how it sounds, though.

Knowledge is power, but ability to implement knowledge is what will save us. It requires action.

( ... I don't need saving ... )

 

[TrueBeliever37]

So what you are saying is G-d wasn't clear enough and a group of illiterate fishermen and an itinerant faith healer know better than years upon years of study? That a ragtag bunch of nomads know the interpretations better than those who spent their lives studying it? Saying 'Not in the way you thought' is a cop-out that Christians have been using for 2,000 years and it's old. The Scriptures state pretty clearly what the Messiah will do and since yours didn't you have to retcon it to mean something else.

The Messiah hasn't come yet.

I noticed you still haven't dealt with the fact that it is past time for the Messiah to have come according to the OT scriptures. And yet you continue to say he hasn't come yet.

Many things in the scriptures have spiritual, not literal meanings and fulfillments. The people in his kingdom don't go to war. We are built up a spiritual habitation (temple) for the Spirit of God, as it says in the new testament. God's people are the temple of the Holy Spirit now.

You are looking for a natural fulfillment. Surely you don't believe it means none of the people in this world will ever go to war again. And surely you don't think a literal natural temple will be rebuilt where the dome of the rock is do you?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Of the kings of Israel, the Bible says ALL of the kings of Israel were evil. Among the kings of Judah, 12 were evil and 8 were good (Asa, Jehoshaphat, Joash, Amaziah, Azariah, Jotham, Hezekiah, and Josiah).

Your two statements contradict each other. You can't state on one hand that all the kings were evil, and then on the other hand that 40% were good.

Israel did not disobey God by having kings -- we were given the choice. Furthermore, it is only by choosing to have kings that the possibility of a messiah can exist. No king, no messiah. Think about it.

I see a parallel between Judaism and Christianity inasmuch as they both claimed to serve their God but fell short by their conduct....both relying heavily on their traditions more than on scripture.

So we fall short. Repent and God forgives. It's not that it doesn't matter that we fall. It's that God accomodates -- he has given us the possibiility of returning to his ways. So rather than focusing on our past, simply return to him.

As far as traditions and scriptures, they work best together. You cannot possibly be "scripture alone." It is an impossibility, a pipe dream. For one thing, you need tradition to tell you how to read the Hebrew text, which has no vowels. Yada yada.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

Here's my problem with the whole Jeremiah 31:31 thing...

The verse is speaking about a covenant, a contract between two parties.

The new testament is what? ... testamony. One person's sworn account of what happened?

The new testament is a contract between us and God.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I hate to interrupt, but do you actually believe catholics are drinking actual blood and actual flesh??? Religion aside. Please tell me no

Of course I don't believe they are actually drinking real blood or eating real flesh. (I think THEY believe it.) I think it's symbolic cannibalism. But even symbolic cannibalism is horrific, and certainly qualifies as "strange."

 

[TrueBeliever37]

It says that what will be inscribed on the hearts is the Torah, not anything else (verse 32). It also says that only when the laws are nullified would the Jews stop being his people (and that that would only happen if someone could possibly measure the heavens -- IOW, it isn't happening, so the Jews are still his people, and the laws are still in effect). So the laws aren't nullified and they will be inscribed on the hearts of the Jews. You might want to compare this with LEV 26:44-45.

Of course God's instruction/law is inscribed on our hearts. I serve him because I love him, not because of a bunch of commandments telling me I have to. His law is in my heart, and in my mind. In the inner parts if you will.

It says when the laws regarding the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars departed from before him, that the seed of Israel would cease being a nation before him. But I haven't said the Jews can't be God's people. The early church was Jewish. It is for whosoever will.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Of course I don't believe they are actually drinking real blood or eating real flesh. (I think THEY believe it.) I think it's symbolic cannibalism. But even symbolic cannibalism is horrific, and certainly qualifies as "strange."

I got two confirmations they don't. The idea, yeah, I agree. It makes me think only non-catholics treat it as real blood and body. Ask a catholic if she or he eats human flesh and drinks human blood (in those words).

 

[rosends]

Of course God's instruction/law is inscribed on our hearts. I serve him because I love him, not because of a bunch of commandments telling me I have to. His law is in my heart, and in my mind. In the inner parts if you will.

But that's not what the text means. It makes clear what it means - that the Torah laws won't have to be taught because they will be automatically known. No one will have to teach anything to anyone. That isn't the case now.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

And verse 36 makes the entire idea that a new text could make the Torah null explicitly impossible unless one wants to delete the existence of the Jewish people.

Seriously? It doesn't delete the existence of the Jewish people, when the new text is also for the Jewish people.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

But that's not what the text means. It makes clear what it means - that the Torah laws won't have to be taught because they will be automatically known. No one will have to teach anything to anyone. That isn't the case now.

So your children will just wake up one day and know everything? That can't be what it means.

 

[rosends]

Seriously? It doesn't delete the existence of the Jewish people, when the new text is also for the Jewish people.

But that means that it doesn't delete the Torah laws or change the laws of Judaism either. So the messianic concept remains the Jewish one. The Torah and its covenant remain.

 

[rosends]

So your children will just wake up one day and know everything? That can't be what it means.

Really? Why not? Are you doubting what it says and promises about the difference in humanity in messianic days? I don't doubt it, and I see it as definitive proof that we aren't there yet.

 

[Rival]

I noticed you still haven't dealt with the fact that it is past time for the Messiah to have come according to the OT scriptures.

Except it's obviously not.

I look forward to the day when Christians will drop this disgusting hubris that they know the Jewish Scriptures better than the Hebrew speaking Jews to whom it was given and belongs.

You still haven't answered me when I asked what your messiah achieved. I'd like to know.

 

[Shad]

You want me to define British culture in a forum post?

Yes. I often see this "culture" claim but never expanded upon while often used only to bolster a point. People fill in the blanks rather than ask for a definition.

A culture is something one lives and experiences and understands inherently. It's part of a mindset, a way of life, a way of being. I can't make a list of all the things that British culture 'is' as a culture is a living, breathing thing. What I'm saying there is that an American could read all the articles he can find about living in Britain, he could talk to Brits, but ultimately if he came to Britain, it would still be difficult for him. The Brits would know it; we don't need to think about it, we just do because that is what we are used to. We know it. The American may 'know' it as from a textbook, but as we all understand - one can learn French or Spanish from a textbook, but in practice it is nothing like that as you will need to learn slag, dialect, accents, puns, rude words and so on.

You are not telling me what British culture is. You are giving me a definition of culture than going right back to vagueness.

 

[Rival]

Yes. I often see this "culture" claim but never expanded upon while often used only to bolster a point. People fill in the blanks rather than ask for a definition.



You are not telling me what British culture is. You are giving me a definition of culture than going right back to vagueness.

What exactly is your issue here, Shad? How can one explain a whole culture in a forum post? It is not possible? A culture is lived and experienced, not written. Regardless, I'm sorry if you missed my point. I'm not carrying this on if you don't understand and refuse to. My point is simple: people who live in a given culture and more familiar with it than those who don't. Not sure why that's complicated, honestly.

To go back to my point: I don't understand American literature because I didn't grow up in American culture. I read Of Mice and Men as a teen at school and it meant nothing to me. I didn't get what the author was trying to say or the context or the overlying themes. I understand Wuthering Heights.