What do you believe about the Holy Spirit?

[IsmailaGodHasHeard]

I am just curious.

 

[SageTree]

Isn't asking this in a NON-trinitarian DIR a little paradoxical?

 

[Katzpur]

I am just curious.

Is this really the subforum you want to discuss this on? If it is, you should expect to hear from a very limited group of people -- possibly just the Jehovah's Witnesses.

 

[IsmailaGodHasHeard]

You guys are the exact group that I want to hear from. I want to know that if someone does not believe that Jesus is God, what do they believe about the Holy Spirit.

 

[Katzpur]

You guys are the exact group that I want to hear from. I want to know that if someone does not believe that Jesus is God, what do they believe about the Holy Spirit.

What you fail to recognize is that it is entirely possible to believe that Jesus is God, but not be a trinitarian Christian.

 

[Pegg]

You guys are the exact group that I want to hear from. I want to know that if someone does not believe that Jesus is God, what do they believe about the Holy Spirit.

the holy spirit is not a person, it is Gods active force, his power
He sends out his holy spirit when instructing or inspiring people to teach his word:
Ezekiel 36:26 And I will give YOU a new heart, and a new spirit I shall put inside YOU,...27 And my spirit I shall put inside YOU, and I will act so that in my regulations YOU will walkand my judicial decisions YOU will keep and actually carry out

Joel 2:28 “And after that it must occur that I shall pour out my spirit on every sort of flesh, and YOUR sons and YOUR daughters will certainly prophesy. As for YOUR old men, dreams they will dream. As for YOUR young men, visions they will see. 29 And even on the menservants and on the maidservants in those days I shall pour out my spirit

Acts 13:2 As they were publicly ministering to Jehovah and fasting, the holy spirit said: “Of all persons set Bar′na‧bas and Saul apart for me for the work to which I have called them.”

He also uses holy spirit to perform miraculous & creative acts
Matthew 1:18 But the birth of Jesus Christ was in this way. During the time his mother Mary was promised in marriage to Joseph, she was found to be pregnant by holy spirit

Genesis 1:2 Now the earth proved to be formless and waste and there was darkness upon the surface of [the] watery deep; and God’s active force (spirit) was moving to and fro over the surface of the waters


And he can give his spirit/power to others so that they can perform miraculous acts such as raising the dead, healing the sick or speaking in foreign languages:

Acts 2:3 And tongues as if of fire became visible to them and were distributed about, and one sat upon each one of them, 4 and they all became filled with holy spirit and started to speak with different tongues, just as the spirit was granting them to make utterance.

Acts 3;1 Now Peter and John were going up into the temple ..2 and a certain man that was lame from his mother’s womb was being carried,...4 But Peter, together with John, gazed at him and said: “Take a look at us.” ... Peter said: ... In the name of Jesus Christ the Naz‧a‧rene′, walk!” 7 With that he took hold of him by the right hand and raised him up. Instantly the soles of his feet and his anklebones were made firm


The holy spirit also is characterized by Godly qualities. A person with Gods spirit upon them should display the qualities because they are what the spirit produces in a person:
Galatians 5:22 On the other hand, the fruitage of the spirit is love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith, 23 mildness, self-control

 

[IsmailaGodHasHeard]

What you fail to recognize is that it is entirely possible to believe that Jesus is God, but not be a trinitarian Christian.

This is true. I "met" someone online who believed that The Father is God, and that Jesus is God, but not the Holy Spirit. What I want to know from non-trinitarians is what do you believe that the Holy Spirit is, if He is not God?

 

[Katzpur]

(It´s kind of unnecesary to be that rude in the very same thread where he is literaly trying, and hasen´t given a bad time to anyone about it)

My statement wasn't rude in the slightest! I was merely pointing out a fact that should be considered by the person authoring the OP.

 

[Katzpur]

This is true. I "met" someone online who believed that The Father is God, and that Jesus is God, but not the Holy Spirit. What I want to know from non-trinitarians is what do you believe that the Holy Spirit is, if He is not God?

Okay, well in order to explain what I (and other Mormons) believe the Holy Ghost to be, I kind of have to explain our belief as to how He fits into the Godhead. Otherwise, it may not be clear to you that we do believe the Holy Ghost to be God, but do not consider ourselves to be trinitarian Christians.

Our first Article of Faith states: We believe in God the Eternal Father, and in His Son Jesus Christ and in the Holy Ghost. We believe that Jesus Christ is the Only Begotten Son of God in the flesh. While we believe that God is the Father of the spirits of each and every person who has ever lived, and that we are all His spirit offspring, Jesus Christ is most definitely in a class by Himself. He was with His Father in the beginning. Under His Father's direction, He created worlds without number. He was chosen to be "the Lamb" prior to the foundation of this world. He sits today on the right hand of His Father. Along with the Holy Ghost, the Father and the Son make up the Godhead.

We believe that our Father in Heaven and His Son Jesus Christ have a true father-son relationship. The words, "Father" and "Son," in other words, mean exactly what they say. They are not metaphorical or symbolic of a vague metaphysical relationship, in which two beings are some how both part of a single essence. We are each the physical sons and daughters of our mortal parents. Jesus Christ is the literal, physical Son of a divine Father and a mortal Mother. He was conceived in a miraculous way, but like all sons, was in the "express image of His Father's person." That is to say, He looked like Him. Dogs beget puppies, and cats beget kittens. God beget a Son who is the same species as He is. They both have bodies of flesh and bone (although, until His birth in Bethlehem, Jesus Christ was a spirit being only).

The Father and the Son are physically distinct from one another, and yet they are also "one." This doctrine is taught in the Book of Mormon as well as in the Bible. We just understand the word "one" to mean something other than physical substance or essence. We believe they are "one in will and purpose, one in mind and heart, and one in power and glory." It would be impossible to explain, or even to understand, the degree of their unity. It is perfect; it is absolute. They think, feel and act as "one God." Because of this perfect unity, and because they share the title of "God," we think of them together in this way. It would be impossible for us to worship one of them without also worshipping the other.

Most Christians also use the words “co-equal” and “co-eternal” to describe the relationship between the Father and the Son. We do not. We believe that, as is again the case with all fathers and sons, the Father existed prior to His Son. No son's existence precedes his father's, and Jesus Christ is no exception to this rule. We also believe Christ to be subordinate to His Father. He is divine because of His relationship with His Father. It is, however, important to understand what we mean when we use the word "subordinate." We understand that the Son holds a subordinate position in the relationship; we do not believe Him to be an inferior being. As an example, a colonel holds an inferior position to a general, but is not an inferior being. To most people's way of thinking, an ant, however, is an inferior being to a human.

The third member of the Godhead is the Holy Ghost. Unlike the Father and the Son, the Holy Ghost is a person of spirit only. It is by virtue of this quality that He is able to both fill the universe and dwell in our hearts. It is through the Holy Ghost that God communicates to mankind. We come to understand spiritual truths through the witnessing of the Holy Ghost, who communicates with us on a spiritual plane. It is through Him that we come to know the Father and the Son.

 

[IsmailaGodHasHeard]

Please do not fight.

 

[Badran]

***Mod post***

This is the Nontrinitarian DIR, members who do not belong to that group are only allowed to post respectful questions.​

 

[SageTree]

please do not fight.

+++++1

 

[Solitarius]

The Holy Spirit is the Third Divine Person. The link or bond that unites the Son with the Father.

The three are one: God the Father is invisible...He expresses HIs reality in the Son; the living incarnation of the Word. As an exact representation of the Father in flesh and blood. They are not two - but one.....The Holy Spirit is the bridge that unites the Son of Man to the Godhead.
Thus the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are three aspects of ONE BEING.

 

[IsmailaGodHasHeard]

Amen to that.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

The Holy Spirit is the Third Divine Person. The link or bond that unites the Son with the Father.
The three are one: God the Father is invisible...He expresses HIs reality in the Son; the living incarnation of the Word. As an exact representation of the Father in flesh and blood. They are not two - but one.....The Holy Spirit is the bridge that unites the Son of Man to the Godhead.
Thus the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are three aspects of ONE BEING.

How can a ' neuter ' (it) be a person ?
Both God and Jesus are always in the masculine gender, whereas God's spirit is neuter as ' it ' - Numbers 11:17; Numbers 11:25
Modern-day translators changed the words 'it' and ' itself ' such as at Romans 8:16; Romans 8:26 to the masculine 'himself ', when the ancient manuscripts are in the neuter ' itself '.
Even today we speak of cars or ships as being a 'she'. The word ' she ' does Not make the neuter car or ship as a person, but they remain a neuter 'it' .
So, when God sends forth His spirit - Psalms 104:30 - He is Not sending forth a person.

 

[Araceli Cianna]

I believe God IS a Holy Spirit, so there is no difference to me. The Holy Spirit is not a separate force or person or even Mode of God, but rather is God Himself. John 4:24 - "God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth."

 

[Walter and Debbie]

I am just curious.

Hello Ismaila, The Comforter is always best at His duty in comfort in peace, help us in time of need.

Love, Walter And Debbie

 

[Walter and Debbie]

Hello Ismaila, Through the power of the Holy Spirit, believers are saved, filled, sealed, and sanctified. The Holy Spirit reveals God’s thoughts, teaches, and guides believers into all truth, including knowledge of what is to come. The Holy Spirit also helps Christians in their weakness and intercedes for them.

People also ask



What does the Holy Spirit do in the lives of believers?First, the Holy Spirit does many things in the lives of believers. He is the believers’ Helper (John 14:26). He indwells believers and seals them until the day of redemption—this indicates that the Holy Spirit’s presence in the believer is irreversible. He guards and guarantees the salvation of the ones He indwells (Ephesians 1:13; 4:30).

Is the Holy Spirit God? The Godhead:
Sunday 10-9-22 1st. Day Of The Weekly Cycle, Tishri 12 5783 18th. Fall Day

Genesis One:26 In this scripture, I believe, And God said, "Let us" is referring to: Elohim

26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

The term Godhead is found three times in the King James Version: Acts 17:29; Romans 1:20; and Colossians 2:9. In each of the three verses, a slightly different Greek word is used, but the definition of each is the same: “deity” or “divine nature.” The word Godhead is used to refer to God’s essential nature. We’ll take a look at each of these passages and what they mean.

In Acts 17, Paul is speaking on Mars Hill to the philosophers of Athens. As he argues against idolatry, Paul says, “Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man’s device” (Acts 17:29, KJV). Here, the word Godhead is the translation of the Greek theion, a word used by the Greeks to denote “God” in general, with no reference to a particular deity. Paul, speaking to Greeks, used the term in reference to the only true God.

In Romans 1, Paul begins to make the case that all humanity stands guilty before God. In verse 20 he says, “The invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse” (KJV). Here, Godhead is theiotés. Paul’s argument is that all of creation virtually shouts the existence of God; we can “clearly” see God’s eternal power, as well as His “Godhead” in what He has made. “The heavens declare the glory of God; / the skies proclaim the work of his hands” (Psalm 19:1). The natural world makes manifest the divine nature of God.

Colossians 2:9 is one of the clearest statements of the deity of Christ anywhere in the Bible: “In him [Christ] dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.” The word for “Godhead” here is theotés. According to this verse, Jesus Christ is God Incarnate. He embodies all (“the fulness”) of God (translated “the Deity” in the NIV). This truth aligns perfectly with Colossians 1:19, “God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him [Christ].”

Because the Godhead dwells bodily in Christ, Jesus could rightly claim that He and the Father are “one” (John 10:30). Because the fullness of God’s divine essence is present in the Son of God, Jesus could say to Philip, “Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father” (John 14:9).

In summary, the Godhead is the essence of the Divine Being; the Godhead is the one and only Deity. Jesus, the incarnate Godhead, entered our world and showed us exactly who God is: “No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known” (John 1:18; cf. Hebrews 1:3).

To be continued...

Love, Walter and Debbie

But The Comforter, Which Is The Holy Ghost

Love, Walter

 

[Walter and Debbie]

Hello Ismaila, The Comforter is always best at His duty in comfort in peace, help us in time of need.

Love, Walter And Debbie

Hello Ismaila, Through the power of the Holy Spirit, believers are saved, filled, sealed, and sanctified. The Holy Spirit reveals God’s thoughts, teaches, and guides believers into all truth, including knowledge of what is to come. The Holy Spirit also helps Christians in their weakness and intercedes for them.

People also ask



What does the Holy Spirit do in the lives of believers?First, the Holy Spirit does many things in the lives of believers. He is the believers’ Helper (John 14:26). He indwells believers and seals them until the day of redemption—this indicates that the Holy Spirit’s presence in the believer is irreversible. He guards and guarantees the salvation of the ones He indwells (Ephesians 1:13; 4:30).

Is the Holy Spirit God? The Godhead is made up of three equal persons living in perfect unity with each other. Believing this is vital to understanding the powerful role the Spirit plays in the lives of Christians and the way God is active in the world. The Bible verses in this section show that the Holy Spirit is God.

Love, Walter

 

[Clear]

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Walter and Debbie said : “Is the Holy Spirit God? The Godhead is made up of three equal persons living in perfect unity with each other. “ (post #19)


While I do not believe the Holy Spirit is God the Father, I do believe that The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit is made up of separate individuals who are in perfect unity in purpose and sentiment.

In coming to tentative historical models as to what role the Holy Spirit plays in God’s plan, I do not think the modern Judeo-Christian religions are any more rational, logical or intuitive than the earliest Judeo-Christians and their historical descriptions of the spirit.

To better understand the role of the Holy Spirit in early Judeo-Christian worldview, a bit of historical context is necessary.



1) THE EARLY STAGES OF THE FATHERS’ PLAN FOR MANKIND IN EARLY JUDEO-CHRISTIAN LITERATURE

The earliest stage of Gods’ plans involved the creation of a physical earth, a physical place to accomplish his purposes.

Thus the Prophet Enoch quotes the Father saying “… before any visible things had come into existence, I, the ONE, moved around in the invisible things, like the sun, from east to west and from west to east. But the sun has rest in himself; yet I did not find rest, because everything was not yet created. And I thought up the idea of establishing a foundation, to create a visible creation. 2nd Enoch Ch 24:2-4; 25:1 & 26:1;


In early Jewish and Christian literature, this “idea” or “plan” of God involved providing the spirits of mankind an opportunity to become morally educated and civilized so that they could have the ability to live in a social heaven in harmony and joy forever.

For example, an early Synagogal prayer tells us that “the goal of the creative work” was to “… create the rational living creature, the world citizen – having given order by your Wisdom, you created, saying, “let us make man according to our image and likeness”... Hellenistic Synagogal Prayers - #3:1, 18,24-27; (aposCon 7.34.1-8) ;

There were profound reasons why God wanted to direct and civilize the progression of these spirits besides the fact that he had love for them. It was important to assist the spirits of mankind in their development towards becoming a rational and intelligent and loving “citizen” of an eternal world.

A narrative from the early Gospel of Phillip summarizes why domestication and civilization is necessary :

“There are domestic animals like the bull and the a ss and others of this kind. Others are wild and live apart in the deserts. Man ploughs the field by means of the domestic animals, and from this he feeds both himself and the animals, whether tame or wild. Compare the perfect man. It is through powers which are submissive that he ploughs, preparing for everything to come into being. For it is because of this that the whole place stands, whether the good or the evil, the right and the left. The Holy spirit shepherds everyone and rules all the powers, the “tame” ones and the “wild” ones, as well as those who are unique.” The gospel of Phillip;



2) THE SPIRITS OF MANKIND SENT TO MORTALITY AS A “SCHOOL” WHERE THEY COULD LEARN MORAL PRINCIPLES

Jewish Zohar likens this moral and social tutoring to a village of tutors where these spirits are temporarily sent to “learn the ways of the palace”.

Speaking of the spirits being sent to earth it was said : “…the soul of the female and the soul of the male, are hence preeminent above all the heavenly hosts and camps. It may be wondered, if they are thus preeminent on both sides, why do they descend to this world only to be taken thence at some future time?

This may be explained by way of a simile: A king has a son whom he sends to a village to be educated until he shall have been initiated into the ways of the palace. When the king is informed that his son is now come to maturity, the king, out of his love, sends the matron his mother to bring him back into the palace, and there the king rejoices with him every day….”

“…He dispatched it to a village, that is, to this world, to be raised in it, and initiated into the ways of the King’s palace. Informed that his son was now come to maturity, and should be returned to the palace, the King, out of love, sent the matron for him to bring him into the palace. The soul does not leave this world until such time as the matron has arrived to get her and bring her into the King’s palace, where she abides for ever. “

Describing of the sadness of the time when these spirits (who came into the world through birth) leave this world through death, the narrative continues :

“… the village people weep for the departure of the king’s son from among them. But one wise man said to them: ‘Why do you weep? Was this not the king’s son, whose true place is in his father’s palace and not with you?...’ “If the righteous were only aware of this, they would be filled with joy when their time comes to leave this world. For does it not honor them greatly that the matron comes down on their account, to take them into the King’s palace, where the King may every day rejoice in them?.... THE ZOHAR - A SEAL UPON YOUR HEART

Such early Jewish and Christian describe this mortal experience as a tutoring experience where mankind learns by their own experience moral and social laws such as the difference between good and evil and the disastrous effects of evil. Those who choose wisely, to learn to live by principles which underlie and sustain a social heaven are filtered from those who cannot, or will not learn to live by those principles.



3) THE SPIRIT AS A MEANS OF SPIRITUAL EDUCATION

In early Christian literature it was made clear that the purpose of the Holy Spirit was as an educator, and enticer to good, a witness to truth, and a comforter for mankind during mortality.

For example, an early Coptic psalm reads :

“let us bless our Lord Jesus who has sent to us the Spirit of Truth. He came and separated us from the Error of the World… When the Holy Spirit came, he revealed to us the way of truth and taught us that there are two Natures, that of the Light and that of the Darkness, separated from each other since the beginning.” THE COPTIC PSALM-BOOK - 223 (alberry 9-11)

Phillip witnesses to us that the Holy Spirit can influence ALL individuals (and not just Jews and Christians) thusly : "The Holy spirit shepherd everyone and rules all the powers, the “tame” ones and the “wild” ones, as well as those who are unique.”

The prophet Sedrash also witnesses to this principle of fairness in the following narrative :

“You know, Sedrach, that there are nations which have no law, yet fulfill the law; they are not baptized, but my divine spirit enters them and they are converted to my baptism, and I receive them with my righteous ones in the bosom of Abraham.” And there are some baptized with my baptism and anointed with my divine myrrh, but they have become full of despair and they will not change their mind. Yet I await them with much pity and much rich mercy, that they may repent. ” The Apocalypse of Sedrach 14:5-7;

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