What Do You Expect...?

[URAVIP2ME]

Specifically, it's out of my hands. But it is in the hands of humans. The ones with power and education

....and mankind's long history (the ones with power and education) shows that MAN has dominated MAN to MAN's hurt, MAN's injury.
Because humans refuse to live by the Law of Christ (Galatians 6:2) and Not love others as Jesus does (John 13:34-35) then God will have Jesus step in to rid the Earth of the wicked - Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:14-15

 

[URAVIP2ME]

By what I see, western leaders desire World War 3 more than anything. That is why I expect things to get a lot worse than now.

.... and I suppose if No abortion that will mean more grade-school children for gun-crazed people to shoot at.

 

[Ella S.]

True.

I thought debates were supposed to be concerned with truth, not your petty antagonism towards reality.

I think you have demonstrated quite well why these forums are unproductive for the sake of actual discourse.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

... your petty antagonism towards reality.

Oh my ...

 

[RabbiO]

I thought debates were supposed to be concerned with truth, not your petty antagonism towards reality.

I think you have demonstrated quite well why these forums are unproductive for the sake of actual discourse.

I’ve known @Jayhawker Soule for a long time. He has never been as easy a read as others on this and other forums. To be sure, I don’t always agree with him. One thing, however, I would never accuse him of is a petty antagonism toward reality.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I’ve known ..., I would never accuse him of is a petty antagonism toward reality.

Thank you. It is, nonetheless, a creative characterization.

 

[nPeace]

Specifically, it's out of my hands. But it is in the hands of humans. The ones with power and education

You think...

 

[nPeace]

English is weird. That's all I gotta say.

You could always try Chinese.

 

[nPeace]

No, you cannot do objectively better.

Since that statement makes no sense, I agree.

 

[Sand Dancer]

You could always try Chinese.

Weird is better than impossible.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

....and mankind's long history (the ones with power and education) shows that MAN has dominated MAN to MAN's hurt, MAN's injury.
Because humans refuse to live by the Law of Christ (Galatians 6:2) and Not love others as Jesus does (John 13:34-35) then God will have Jesus step in to rid the Earth of the wicked - Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:14-15

In my opinion, the only way that we've seemed to make progress here, is when good people, who have power and education, do things. You are talking about the bad people with power and education. Now, if Jesus was a good person, and arguably he did some things that might generally be considered good, I suppose, then I don't see how it is useful to us that he merely left.

We need good people, with power and education, to stick around and help out. And some do, you can find them in history books, inventing things, saying good things. Making a mark that propels the human race forward. Doing things that make life better. Now to me, Jesus is controversial in that regard. He has some good sayings that seem useful, but beyond that, I don't know.

He didn't stick around and invent physics for us, or invent the internet, or planes etc. If he did, we would have 2000 years of experience with those things by now, and they would be better. He cured lepers, but did not show us medicine to use after he died. He let rome have lead piping, which caused who knows what, in terms of biological damage. He didn't say much about how to stop war, etc.

But he has a few good sayings that I remember, that seem to be true. I generally think the 'matthew principle' seems powerful and true, but I think that it also might be a curse? I guess that's sort of the main one, but there a couple others down in my mind somewhere, that I usually remember

 

[nPeace]

In my opinion, the only way that we've seemed to make progress here, is when good people, who have power and education, do things. You are talking about the bad people with power and education. Now, if Jesus was a good person, and arguably he did some things that might generally be considered good, I suppose, then I don't see how it is useful to us that he merely left.

We need good people, with power and education, to stick around and help out. And some do, you can find them in history books, inventing things, saying good things. Making a mark that propels the human race forward. Doing things that make life better. Now to me, Jesus is controversial in that regard. He has some good sayings that seem useful, but beyond that, I don't know.

He didn't stick around and invent physics for us, or invent the internet, or planes etc. If he did, we would have 2000 years of experience with those things by now, and they would be better. He cured lepers, but did not show us medicine to use after he died. He let rome have lead piping, which caused who knows what, in terms of biological damage. He didn't say much about how to stop war, etc.

But he has a few good sayings that I remember, that seem to be true. I generally think the 'matthew principle' seems powerful and true, but I think that it also might be a curse? I guess that's sort of the main one, but there a couple others down in my mind somewhere, that I usually remember

Yes. Good people do make a great contribution, and difference. That why they are killed, or accused of being "criminals"... because the world isn't controlled by the good.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

Yes. Good people do make a great contribution, and difference. That why they are killed, or accused of being "criminals"... because the world isn't controlled by the good.

Is that set in stone? Is that really precisely accurate? Why should I think like that? How does it serve my life, to think, with a sense of utter defeat, that the world simply 'isn't controlled by the good,' and can't be.

 

[nPeace]

Is that set in stone?

That's an accurate way to describe it. I'm sure it is. Yes.

Is that really precisely accurate?

I'm 100% certain, it is.

Why should I think like that?

We don't have to do anything. It is our choice.

How does it serve my life, to think, with a sense of utter defeat, that the world simply 'isn't controlled by the good,' and can't be.

It saves us living in a bubble, and being disappointed when expectations, or optimistic beliefs are inevitably shattered.

It's not having a sense of utter defeat, but again, that depends on our choice.

 

[syo]

Worst.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

It saves us living in a bubble, and being disappointed when expectations, or optimistic beliefs are inevitably shattered.

I basically know how to 'not be too optimistic' at times, and when I ought to be optimistic. Why do I need a divine savior to understand that?

It's not having a sense of utter defeat, but again, that depends on our choice.

I define trusting in success as trusting in good people, with power, and hopefully, in good institutions. If Jesus is throwing a curve-ball into that single sentence idea, then if I trust in him, is that not actually an anti-social, defeatist, and nihilistic way to view the good social operations down on earth? That's why I want to create a thread that debates the possible anti-social nature of trusting in a savior god

 

[nPeace]

I basically know how to 'not be too optimistic' at times, and when I ought to be optimistic. Why do I need a divine savior to understand that?

One needs what in reality is necessary for completeness of life.
If a divine savior fills that need, then...
Does a divine savior make one complete?
If yes, those who know the answer will be complete.
If no, that leads to the questions... Are our lives complete? What makes a life complete? ...and perhaps more questions.

I define trusting in success as trusting in good people, with power, and hopefully, in good institutions.

Many are hopeful, like yourself.
Many no longer are hopeful, becase they have had, or are having a taste of reality. In other words, their bubble was burst.

If Jesus is throwing a curve-ball into that single sentence idea, then if I trust in him, is that not actually an anti-social, defeatist, and nihilistic way to view the good social operations down on earth?

Sorry. Unfortunately you lost me here. I don't understand what you are saying.

That's why I want to create a thread that debates the possible anti-social nature of trusting in a savior god

I would be happy to respond to that... so long as it's clear what you mean by "anti-social nature of trusting in a savior god".

 

[amorphous_constellation]

I would be happy to respond to that...

Alright well, I am still working on how to frame it. I think there are other sets of positions, perhaps a 3rd and a 4rth, besides the two opposing views I was discussing with you.

 

[Muffled]

What do you expect in the coming years - for attitudes and conditions to get better, or worst?

I used to live in a fairly clean district, but now, it's unsightly, since the neighborhood changed.
In fact, the country I live in, has become unsightly, in many many areas... one could say, 'all over the place'.
Rats have become a problem too.

View attachment 63972
The Garbage Problem is just one problem
Garbage is a big problem all over the world. People buy and use a lot of things nowadays. After a while, they throw them away in the garbage bin. All the garbage is later thrown away or dumped outside the city. These places are called landfill sites. In many cities, landfill sites are now full.

Do you see things getting better, in a few years time, or do you think man's attitudes are getting worst?

I believe things will get much worse because we are in the end times.

 

[nPeace]

I want to thank all who participated in the "survey". I was really curious of what percentage would be greater.
So far, the greater number - leading with 52.2% - think things will get worst. Followed by 26.1% who are optimistic of things getting better, and 21.7% not sure.

Although I expect the majority of people do see things getting worst, I didn't expect many on RF to feel that way.
I think more people are becoming aware of how this system is shaping up.
It's not hard to see why, from some of the comments.
An earlier comment made me think of Daniel prophecy of the immense image, where the feet is a mixture that doesn't hold together.

In Daniel’s prophecy, the clay in the feet of the immense image symbolizes the common people. They have the power to influence political leaders and their policies. (Dan. 2:41-43)
That's key.

I think this is a reality people are waking up to in almost every part of the world, where violent protest against government and their policies is becoming norm.
It made me wonder, how many people would claim that Daniel wrote this, after the fact, as they claim he did about the fall of Babylon, Media Persia, and Greece.

I think the reality - the evidence - what we see today, confirms the reliability of prophecy recorded in the Bible.