What do you think about school shootings?

[Ori]

Many of the kids in these situations have usually been the victim of abuse, whether by fellow class mates or parents or even both. Thay just lose it and turn everything that's ever been done to them against everyone else.
I don't believe it's the right thing to do, I can however, understand why they do it.

 

[michel]

Many of the kids in these situations have usually been the victim of abuse, whether by fellow class mates or parents or even both. Thay just lose it and turn everything that's ever been done to them against everyone else.
I don't believe it's the right thing to do, I can however, understand why they do it.

There goes another reason why I don't believe in the sale of weapons; having said that, a stabbing is just as horrendous.........

This is real life, not an idyllic scenario; understanding why is part of the way - the next step is knowing how to eradicate the problem in the first place.

 

[BUDDY]

Many of the kids in these situations have usually been the victim of abuse, whether by fellow class mates or parents or even both. Thay just lose it and turn everything that's ever been done to them against everyone else.
I don't believe it's the right thing to do, I can however, understand why they do it.

So the one's doing the shooting are the real victims and those that made fun of them deserved it? Part of childhood is going through times when other kids make fun of you. Usually older kids poking fun at the younger ones. It has been going on for years and it will continue because that is how kids are. I don't think that school shootings are any way to deal with it and I will never understand it or agree with it.

 

[Valjean]

You sound like you're excusing the reprehensible behavior of the bullies, EEWRED. Just because it's ubiquitous doesn't mean it should be tolerated. Bullies are as serious a threat to the mental health of a community as any drug. The excesses of school shooters are just the most extreme manifestation of this.

 

[michel]

So the one's doing the shooting are the real victims and those that made fun of them deserved it? Part of childhood is going through times when other kids make fun of you. Usually older kids poking fun at the younger ones. It has been going on for years and it will continue because that is how kids are. I don't think that school shootings are any way to deal with it and I will never understand it or agree with it.

I think you are over-reacting, eewred; I don't think the intention is to condone any 'wrong' - either the bullying, or the shooting. I don't blame you for being so vehemently against shooting; I am myself; I think the point Ori was trying to make was that he was giving an insight into the mindset of the cornered 'bully' - he was not condoning the shooting; perhaps the fact that bullies have always existed is not a reason to let them carry on though, but to find a way to stop bullies from being what they are.

 

[robtex]

Funny thing about the reaction to the shooting is there is little to none that is proactive in stopping the next incident. People get upset cry yell, blame video games, blame the liberal media, lack of religon this that and than go about their lives and forget about it until it happens again.

What we know about our society is that

1) guns are accessable to minors
2) school security can stop some but not all of it--hopefully and probably most
3) even the few incidents that happen ( one or less a year) have a large impact on that community

It isn't a mystify issue. Schools know they can have metal detectors and guards and that they can legistalate to make guns less accessable to minors and that will lessen the number of incidents of school shootings.

Let me give you a parallel that has been inacted. MADD (mothers against drunk drivers ) started in the 1980's with a specific and organized goal. Reduce drunk driving car crashes. They indentified key issues that would heavly impact their goal in a postiive way. specifically

1) drinking age
2) drinking/driving legislation
3) drinking rehabs.

by working on all three area they are estimating that they have saved roughly 300,000 lives by lowering the annual death toll from drinking and driving over the last 25 years. (source hhp://www.madd.org/home )

while the impact of school shootings are much much lower it is more or less a matter of two things:

1) reducing firearm avaliablty to minors by

a) raising min age to own a gun from 18 to say 20 (to not econompess high school kids including late bloomers)
b) making supervision a legal provision for those under 20
c) strengthen background checks for parents and making them take safty courses to own a gun and including in those safty courses information on handgun violence.

2) tighhinting security at schools
a) metal detectors
b) guards
c) state legislation on school security (so there is a standard)

An interesting footnote ----the NRA was in colombine less than two weeks after the incident saying they were going to fight for gunowners rights to protect themselves against gun-toting hoodlums like the two colombine kids. They have done this more than a few times apperaring in a city just after a major shooting. Their organization and lobbying efforts have made handguns easily accessable to children because they are organized, goal oriented and proactive in their efforts.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I think thier should be some form of consequences for children who pick on others. I was made fun of myself throughout school, and I know how hard it can be.

I dont think shootings are caused by music, movies, books, or video games. If that was the case, thier would be more shootings. I strongly believe the parents are to blame. Their has to be an element of abuse or neglect for a child to forsake life. A loving parent would want to talk about the problems and help work them out.
Suicide is another option for getting rid of everything. The case of suicides is usually a feeling of no one cares and/or life is to hard/has no meaning. If there is someone to discuss problems with, and some one to be a friend, those reasons wouldn't exist.

 

[Neo-Logic]

I think it's a shame they can't be stopped before they do a lot of damage.

I would like to see them try that kind of school-shooting stuff in the schools of rough neighborhoods. Around there, students would shoot back.

 

[anders]

Easily remedied. Ban guns for everyone, except competition handguns for certified participants, and hunters having passed the official tests, and make carrying any kind of lethal weapon in public illegal. The few remaining illegal guns will sufficiently often surface before harming anybody.

A bona fide Scots skean dubh or Sikh kirpan will obviously be allowed. Nobody was ever hurt by any of those. And carrying a visible baseball bat or wood-chopper's axe in public should be made illegal (it probably is here already).

It works pretty well in Sweden.

 

[robtex]

Anders, what is the level of gun control in your country and what is the general attitude of gun ownership over there?

Overhere here to give tit for tat, there is very little gun control so that it is even ok to own automatic weapons and assult rifles. Though few people do. Kids must be 18 to own a firearm but there is no safety course requried just a minimum age.

Gun control is seen as negative here and strong lobbying efforts, mainly by the NRA (national rifle association) have resulted in liberal/laxed laws in gun ownership. In the rurual communities in the USA many people carry rifles and pistols in their autos and a small but noticable percentage carry pistols in their autos in the metros.

In the USA their are concealed handgun laws in most states (maybe all?) which means if you have a license that you buy you can carry a pistol concealed in your person in public but not in state county or city buildings nor in private business that specifcally request you cannot.

What is it like over there? or in UK for you UKers?

 

[Valjean]

A bona fide Scots skean dubh or Sikh kirpan will obviously be allowed. Nobody was ever hurt by any of those. And carrying a visible baseball bat or wood-chopper's axe in public should be made illegal (it probably is here already).

It works pretty well in Sweden.

This seems a bit excessive, Anders. So baseball and cricket are illegal in Sweden? Obviously you can't play if you mayn't pick up the bat, or even legally carry it home from a sporting goods store. And how would you clear brush from your yard or hedgerows if the same applied to axes and chainsaws?

(I'm picturing a group of concerned Swedes clustered around a 2x4 or fencepost fallen from a truck into the middle of the road, all wishing to remove the dangerous traffic hazard but fearful of breaking the law by taking up an illegal "weapon)"

During the 1960s my younger brother signed up for marksmanship lessons at the local YMCA. He would march perhaps 6 Km through the business district of a North Baltimore suburb carrying a .22 caliber rifle to the Y, and back home again. He was perhaps nine or ten years old. Nobody ever stopped or questioned him -- and he never shot anyone.