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What do you think about .........

Ahanit

Active Member
...the Idea of Magus and the Sense for the Setian Path...

It is interesting for me to hear not only the Ideas Of ToS Affiliated but also those who have no or no more affiliation with ToS...

Because within ToS the Idea of the Magus is deep interacting with the Words of the Aeon, it is very interesting how you see the role of the Magus and the words for your own path........

For those who have left ToS: Has your view on those degree changed after rethinking your path?
 
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ktf

Member
Ahanit, I like this question. Hopefully we will get a variety of answers reflecting a variety of thoughts. Here are a few of mine.

To begin with, I am not convinced that the Aeonic paradigm of the ToS has much, if any, relevance outside of the walls of the ToS. Looking at various other Aeonic paradigms we can see a broad based cultural relevance. For example, Crowley’s 3 Aeons of Isis, Osiris, and Horus seem to fit to a certain degree the broad changes in culture and technology that are associated with the “Equinox of the Gods”. If you look at the Chaos Magic concept of Aeons as put forward by Peter J. Carroll which cycle between shamanic, religious and rationalist or magic, transcendentalism, and materialism with the sub paradigms of animism/spiritist, pagan/monotheist, atheist/nihilist, and the future projection of the pandemonaeon, you see again, a correspondence to actual cultural trends and historic shifts in life on the planet. The Eastern concepts of Yugas also has a correlation in actual cultural and technological shifts. The Aeon of Set does not seem to have much of a basis in the larger workings of the world, or at least nowhere to the degree that other Aeonic paradigms seem to. At the risk of ruffling a few tail feathers I put forward the idea/opinion that the Aeon of Set is a creation of M. Aquino and works as the foundational stones for the religion he created. I have yet to hear or read a good, solid explanation of the validity of the Aeon of Set or the ToS’s Aeonic paradigm.

Concerning the concept of Magus, it is hard for me to imagine that anyone who would claim this title or expect others to use it in reference to them would be much more than a pompous prig. It is similar to a person calling themselves a guru, or any other elevated title, in my opinion the claiming of the title is the surest indicator of the lack of those very qualities. In fact, the whole occult structure of such grades is in my opinion nothing more than the old and crumbling edifices of outdated Aeons. What function do such titles serve other than the perpetuation of hierarchy which in no way serves the goal of freedom, liberty and liberation which are key foundations of the LHP? In my opinion the only distinction is that of adept or non adept. The individual is the only one who can initiate this distinction within themselves and the only one with the authority to recognize it. Of course other adepts will recognize the qualities present in another adept but becoming an adept, and knowing it, is a function of the individual. No group, school, or religion is necessary or even of much benefit to this process if the process is genuine. Being an adept has nothing to do with being granted access to secret knowledge, being given a cool necklace or ring, or receiving any sort of title. Genuine adepthood has nothing to do with any organizational structure or group.

Concerning the Words, I think this is a concept that stands on shaky ground. Certain words will have meaning to some and none to others. I do not buy into the b.s. (belief system) that there are Aeon enhancing or Aeon defining words. Again, it is my opinion that such a concept serves largely to up hold hierarchy and religion. There are certain words that serve to encapsulate trends of thoughts that shape the course of culture and history (and perhaps this is Aeonics in a true sense). The legitimacy of these words would be indicated by their ideas being prevalent despite the general lack of knowledge concerning the word itself. The idea that someone “utters” these words and is therefore a “magus” seems a bit outdated and dogmatic. Again, I think this idea helps to solidify religion, belief, dogma etc. etc.

So, those are some of my random thoughts. Hopefully others will post theirs and we can all enjoy a good discussion.
 

Kori Houghton

Restricted
As someone who has no affiliation with the TOS, and never has had any, I feel that the Temple's grade system and aeonic words are meaningful within the Temple, but are just curiousities for an outsider.

All religions and occult orders have their metaphysical concepts and/or ranks within the group. These don't carry any weight outside of that. Occult grades are not university degrees, and aeonic words aren't scientific theories. They can be interesting to read about and discuss, and if someone resonates with some of the concepts they might seek affiliation. Otherwise, not a big deal.
 

Ahanit

Active Member
Interesting is that the Word Xeper for Example can be found inside and Outside the Temple within the Setian path...

That was the Why to ask..... Hope that there will come some more Answers in the near future...

But Now to KTF

The Aeon

I have thought long about your answer. I have thought about why I think that the Aeon of Set is real for me...

You say that a real Aeon has not only effect within the Magic/Esoterik Scene but also in the world. And the first what came into my mind was my grandmother dies short behind and months before I was born... That is crazy, that has nothing to do with any Aeon. On the Other Hand it is interesting because of making inquiries about her and her Life I have found ToS originally.

The Second what came into my mind was Computer and Communication.
In the Year ToS was founded the First Mobile Phone Call was made by Martin Cooper. With the first TV show about Yoga, the Exchange of Culturell and Esoterik beliefs became a new Dimension in Germany.

The E-Mail System was created 1971 before the Aeon was proclaimed but the Grow of This Comunication System, the Distribution of Hardware and Software to use the System is growing to a big Chance. looking back and looking what we can do know shows big steps in short time. And Looking through the History of ToS, We can find this Development Illustrated in the Microcosm like it came into being in the Macrocosm...

What has caused what is to ask, but the ability to exchange is grown in bigger waves than in every Aeon before....

History has become faster, or seems to become faster because of the new width of view we can get from the world. We have more and better abilities to exchange, to learn, to find out, to look through Esoterik and Magical texts we would never be able to find without the Internet. Historical books not printed anymore, unpayable for many people, can be found in the Net and all who wish to read them can do it.

Since the 70's the freedom of people has increased. In Western Countries Women are allowed to work without the permission of their Husband. You are free to choose your Job, your Education equal what your parents think about. You can define yourself. Subcultures are more Excepted than ever before.

So I think I have my Evidence that the Aeon of Set is real. It is the Aeon I want to live in.

But if you want to live in or not every one must choose alone. That is also a freedom of the Aeon of Set we have to choose if we want to take part or not. You can also be part of the older Aeons if you like.

To The Magus and the Word the next time, I have to work a little bit ;)
 

ktf

Member
Of course all of this is a matter of personal opinion and focus, however I would like to point out at least two things in regard to the points you made in the defense of the Aeon of Set paradigm.

First of all you point to the development of technology. I have never heard of this as an example of the validity of the Aeon of Set and I am not sure it really fits. Carroll's Aeonic paradigm of materialism does specifically include the rapid development of technology, and explains why it is occuring. Here is another explanation from Robert Anton Wilson that also explains the technology explosion:

Right Where You Are Sitting Now
The Jumping Jesus Phenomenon


"Our psychic universe is expanding even more rapidly than the physical universe. Let us define the measurement of known scientific facts in the year 1 A.D. as "one jesus," using the name of the celebrated philosopher born that year.
Before going any further, let us ask how long it took to arrive at one jesus. One way of estimating is to take the estimated age of homo sapiens, in which case it took 40,000 to 100,000 years.
How long did it take to double this accumulation of knowledge, to achieve two jesuses? It required 1500 years - until 1500 A.D. How long did it take to double again and obtain four jesuses? It required 250 years, and we had four jesuses in our larder by 1750.
The next doubling took 150 years, and by 1900 A.D. humanity had eight jesuses in our information account. The next doubling took 50 years, and by 1950 we had 16 jesuses. The next, ten years, and by 1960 we had 32 jesuses. The next doubling took seven years, and by 1967 we had 64 jesuses. And the next doubling took 6 years; by 1973 we have 128 jesuses.
There is no reason to imagine that the acceleration has stopped. Thus, we almost certainly reached 256 j around 1978-79 and 512 j in 1982.
In short, we are living in a mental transformation space; that is, an omnidimensional halo expanding toward infinity in all directions. And the electronic center of this halo of mentation is possibly everywhere. It is all available to you right where you are sitting now. Just plug in a terminal. The machine doesn't care who or what you are."
Robert Anton Wilson​

Perhpas you could explain, from your perspective as a member of the Setian religion and the Temple of Set, how the technology explosion is an indicator of the advent of the Aeon of Set?​

Secondly, the philosophy underpinning the paradigm of the Aeon of Set seems to be simply a development of some of the central ideas of the Aeon of Horus and Thelema. One of the central aspects of the Aeon of Horus is the prime importance of the individual. Of course Setian philosophy, and the ideas of Xeper go in a somewhat different direction, or at least offer a different perspective. Granting this, I still do not see the advent of a new Aeon, and honestly I am not convinced of the validity of the Aeonic paradigm in any "objective" (to the degree that objective even exists) sense.​

So, I propose a question: What are the central characteristics of the Aeon of Set and what are some broad examples of the manifestation of this Aeon?​
 

Ahanit

Active Member
The Magi

what is the sence of the word? It is to explain that the one who has got it is able to rule his life. Magus is Latin male for Magician, in the fact that we all want to use the Art of Magic, that we want to be magicians i can not see a Problem in the Word itself....

I think if one is a Magus can be proofed easily, has the one the power to rule the own life in all parts? Is he/she able to deal with all Probs? Is he/she able to get all wishes? Is the life a true creation?

If all these can be answered with yes than I see a real magician a Magus or maga...

But I think we both go confirm that there are enough who call themselfe with these words without any power over the own life.

So I would say if someone inside or outside of ToS is a Magus we all can proof easily and those who are, I have no Prob with to name them with this word.

The Inside view on the Magus is a little bit more detailed than what I stated here. To become recogniced as Magus within ToS, you must not only rule your life, but you must have the ability to walk through the universes without loosing yourself.

The Words

HMM interesting is that Xeper is not only within but also outside of the Temple a word of interest. Like Thelema it has began to walk through the world without the one, who has taken the new born star to show his first steps. Other words are not so open discussed and so have not so much influence to the world.

I don't think that the words themselfe serve any hierachie, but you can count in that I am inside ToS and may not see it. The Magus find them and try to define their first view but the point is that we all are free to define them ourselfe.
Some of the Explanations of the Magi don't tell me anything about their word, so I go into them, look at their soul and their position within the Aeon and define them myselfe, so that they have a sense to me.

Interesting for me is that all have a resonance within me, so they have a sense for my life.

Maybe it is because I see myself within the Aeon and because of that I can go in, but I must also say that not all concepts of the Aeon resonate within me.

So it is the question if it has only something to do with the point of view...

My thoughts...

Any one else who want to give in some Thoughts?
 

Ahanit

Active Member
hey cool only 2 minutes different

The technology was only an Idea How I can explain it for me, there is no need that it is a real Aeonic thing, but it is interesting that I begins in the year where comunication became liberty of the place where it take place.

Yes the Aeon of Set has many points of Crowleys Aeon of Heru, but looking at the walk through the self, the Theory and Practice of the self has become one within the Aeon of Set, while it was different in the Aeon of Heru..

What I mean is, Crowley often speaks against his own Idea of the Self, and those who follow transformed the idea in not longer evolving Ceremonia.
Theory and Practice was not one.

With the Aeon of Set, how I understand it, Theory and Practice began to become one. The self is not longer a theory but the Growing, the come into being of the self is now been Practiced. And not only for the high degree but it is also taught to all. There are no more Ceremonys, there is Work...

My thoughts...

I think you will disagree, But as I have said, we all have to choose if we wish to be part or not. :D
 

Daelach

Setian
I don't see an aeon of Set yet. An aeon of Set would not have anything to do with armchair magicians and armchair philosophy, but with a world wide storm, shattering that which is being now. Not growing and evolution, but hail storm.

IMO, with the first consequences of peak oil already glooming on the horizon, we are about to enter an aeon of Set, but I strongly doubt that this aeon will be what many TOS members will come to love.

Western society is decaying, rotting, decomposing. It is splitting up from a society into many individuals with no cohesion anymore. This is leading to chaos and disorder, which gives me plenty of room for myself (which is the Setian thing about that). A cohesive society where each individual is closely bound in would be very bourgeois. Just think of how the 50s were - disgusting, IMO.

This is not the aeon of Thelema because society is being shattered into individuals, but not into "stars", just mindless, stupid masses. They are not evolving (only some of them), as the aeon of Thelema would require it.

Overmore, I do not see aeons as currents of influence in the world, but as states of consciousness. Of course, we could say that the world as a whole is in the aeon most of its inhabitants are in for most of their time, but what value is in numbers? Eat *****, millions of flies cannot err? Why should we as Setians give a damn about what the stupid herd is thinking (if they are thinking at all)? OK, for the practical purpose of coping with daily life, I do care, but not more than just for dealing with people.
 

MacKinnon

Member
My perspective on Magi and their Words.

As somebody already mentioned, it is quite right that it is not as simple as Uttering a Word, and then *ding* one is a Magus.

The Magus will have spent a lot of his or her time in their Initiation exploring ideas and techniques that are interesting and useful to them. When they begin to notice that a common thread becomes apparent between those interests and techniques that is when he or she begins to consider how they relate to one another, and may become a part of the whole of a greater Work.

The Word of a Magus is used to express as concisely and precisely as possible what that Work entails.

The question as to whether or not a Word enhances an aeon, or does not, or ushers in a new one will become clear in time.

Take the Word Xeper Uttered by Michael Aquino, and Runa Uttered By Stephen Flowers.

Runa enhances the Aeon of Set. The Chief word of the Aeon of Set is Xeper. Runa provides an approach to Xeper, just as Arkte does. Because one can Xeper through the work of Runa and Arkte. Of course one can Xeper through a variety of other means, and perhaps an inexhaustible list of others yet to be revealed.

Now, when the Magus is capable of demonstrating what his Work is, and can show that undertaking the Work will produce consistent results in line with the processes of that Work, and is able to encapsulate the meaning of the Work and approach to it in a Word, then they may be recognised as a Magus...or they may not. The recognition of the title of Magus is hardly as important as the Work they undertake.
 

Ahanit

Active Member
The recognition of the title of Magus is hardly as important as the Work they undertake.

That sentence I do not understand, Why is the Recognition as Important as the work...
I think the work is the important thing, without, the Word Magus/Maga is nothing but a word. They have to give the example of the magical life before they are recogniced.

What do you think about the Aeon McKinnon? That is also an interesting point.

@Daelach

Intersting statement about Peak Oil.
 

MacKinnon

Member
The title is not as important as the Work because in the course of time, it is by our actions we are known.

If you are talking about the Aeon of Set, I think it is still at a very early stage in its development. I'm not entirely convinced that mankind as a whole is ready for the personal challenges required of them to further develop the progress of the Aeon of Set.

It is not going to come about by a process of forced conversion, and at the same time it's not going to come about if people do nothing. People really must question the existence or non-existence of an objective Truth before they can begin to grapple with the question of whether or not we are adequately equipped to apprehend it.

At the moment though, it would seem there are a great many questions being explained away simply, by far too few answers. That's bad enough, but what's worse is that a lot of people are satisfied with those answers and are not willing to look beyond that.
 

Ahanit

Active Member
So you are on the Same road as Daelach, who has given the Idea that the real Aeon of Set or better the main existence will arive in the Future may be through something like Peak Oil?

That has an interesting Basic going to the Question if Those who are following now the path of Set are prepared for the great Shock which will coming when the rest of the world is forced into the awakening from the long sleep within a time where many people had all they want easy available and the Rest try to get the Same Status....
 

MacKinnon

Member
I don't see how what I have written implies I think the Aeon of Set will arrive through Peak Oil.

Nor do I think there'll be a "great shock", or that the rest of the world will have some kind of forced awakening.

Whilst Peak Oil is something people are having to think about, I'm not entirely sure we can say that when that point in time occurs, people will suddenly wake up. We've known for quite a few decades now that the world has finite resources. We know if we over-fish a stock, then it will not replenish. We know if we don't plant trees to replace the ones we use, they'll be gone too.

And yet the attitude towards the earth's resources which came with the Industrial Revolution is still lingering around like a bad smell.

On the otherhand, my country is entering a crucial stage of development for off-shore wind-farms. And we have had access to hydro-electric power plants for some time. It's not enough to take the risk, the risk has to produce repeatable results before people will even take notice, let alone want to adopt the idea. This is why change occurs very slowly in the beginning, but may accelerate as results are produced.

So it's very much a gradual progress, much like when you boil water. There isn't a sudden change from cool water to boiling water.
 

Ahanit

Active Member
That was a misunderstanding my friend, I have not meant that you think the Peak Oil will be the Spot, but that you have also the position that the main Time of the Aeon lies in the Future....

That is the intersting Point for me.

Your picture with the Water is really intersting...

It remembers me to the cooked frog: When you take him in Hot water he will flee, but when you sit him in cold water and begin to heat slow, he will stay and let himself cooked...

The Mass of Human race are like Frogs i think...
 

Valor

Active Member
*posting from Rome*

In my opinion....i think McKinnon has made some great points along with KTF, daelach....hell, everyone has. But to disagree with daelach, western society is not decaying or evolving into oblivion....but rather as a sovereign nation we are finding what works. After all, this society is brand new, only a few hundred years old but is also the worlds leading power. Heck...the three most powerful forces in the world is the usa, one of our submarines (alone) and china...but let's not measure our johnsons so soon. Granted we now have morons burning the Koran.

I see no evidence of an aeon of set, but this is not to say it hasn't yet arrived but when or if it does i think it would evident. The task of the magus is written, heard and seen....over decades this should be refined, the simple utterance of the word is only one of the many facetts of the task.

Could the green movement be the start of this aeon? Perhaps so.
 
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Adramelek

Setian
Premium Member
I know I'll probably get a lot of flack for saying this... but I think this whole global warming thing is nothing but a load of bull. Just another way for people like Al Gore to get rich. There is no substancial evidence that the Earth is warming or that the polar ice caps are melting or that humans are the cause of any of it. I simply am not convinced. Hell, 30 years ago there were people crying that the Earth was headed for a new ice age. Of course, I could be wrong about it all, but right now I'm not buying into any of it.
 
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ktf

Member
I am not sure if there will be any benifit as a result of this short reply to the above but you never know....

It could more accurately be described as global climate change as opposed to global warming, which in my opinion serves as an over simplification. The research exists that "proves" the phenomenon. This research has been checked, peer reviewed, rechecked, and peer reviewed for year upon year. Science does not deal in "facts" per say, however global climate change approaches the border of fact, at least it comes as close to fact as science generally gets. I know that the slack jawed Right in this country (the USA) attempts to muddy the waters in regards to this fact in an attempt to protect the mega business interests that prop them up, but people should be able to see through all of that, espically people attempting to investigate the great Mysteries of existence.

p.s. I am no Gore fan...at all.
 
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MacKinnon

Member
I know I'll probably get a lot of flack for saying this... but I think this whole global warming thing is nothing but a load of bull. Just another way for people like Al Gore to get rich. There is no substancial evidence that the Earth is warming or that the polar ice caps are melting or that humans are the cause of any of it. I simply am not convinced. Hell, 30 years ago there were people crying that the Earth was headed for a new ice age. Of course, I could be wrong about it all, but right now I'm not buying into any of it.

Your opinion isn't as interesting to me as the reason for it, and how you've laid it out.

What research have you conducted to come to your conclusion?

What information have you read that makes any direct correlation between theories on climate change, and the wealth of Al Gore et al?

What would you consider to be 'substantial evidence'?

It's interesting you state that you think you could be wrong, but aren't willing to acknowledge arguments that are contrary to your opinion.

What do you suppose is dangerous for a Setian about shielding yourSelf from refutation?
 

Valor

Active Member
I know I'll probably get a lot of flack for saying this... but I think this whole global warming thing is nothing but a load of bull. Just another way for people like Al Gore to get rich. There is no substancial evidence that the Earth is warming or that the polar ice caps are melting or that humans are the cause of any of it. I simply am not convinced. Hell, 30 years ago there were people crying that the Earth was headed for a new ice age. Of course, I could be wrong about it all, but right now I'm not buying into any of it.

Hmmm...ok, are you suggesting that the way or direction our species is going is not having a global impact for the worst? Im not talking about throwing a dunkin doughnuts cup out the window, but rather the larger scale?

Adremelek, your smarter than you give yourself credit for, i know from prior dialog. You can't be blinded by the wealth of Gore and his motivations. Honestly, what do you really feel?
 
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Adramelek

Setian
Premium Member
OK, look people, I've said my peace. I'm not saying anybody is right or wrong concerning the topic of "climate change". Again, I simply do not buy into any of it, as I see no convincing evidence that it is true. And until I do, my opinion stays as it is. This is all I have to say about the "matter", I have far more pressing endevours to concern myself with in my life and "climate change" quite frankly isn't even on the list. When the polar ice caps actually do in reality begin to melt and the oceans actually do in reality begin to rise, then I will know I was wrong. :p This is all I have to say about the "matter".
 
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