What do you think of Paul the Apostle?

[Coder]

Christianity needs reformation.

Start with Judaism, add the (authentic) teachings of Jesus, e.g. Love of God and neighbor, fairness, "spirit of the law" (avoid misapplied legalism), and you are finished.

Many Jewish Rabbis today and perhaps at the time of Jesus are also aware of these concepts so the portrayals of Pharisees about legalism etc. may also be exaggerations.

As Rabbi Skobac says (with a sense of humor): "What's good in Christianity is not new and what's new is not good."

 

[Jainarayan]

I'm not a fan. I think he was self-impressed, self-absorbed, and self-centered. As far as I'm concerned he turned what should have been Christianity into Paulism. Modern Christianity is only a pale shadow of Jesus. It's mostly Paulism and "Constantinity" ... two bodies separated by 300 years sharing one brain and agenda. Largely because of them we have Christian fundamentalist crazies running amok.

 

[Coder]

....running amok.

Yes, Catholicism, from which it originated, is more "nuanced" today, especially regarding Scripture. They were criticized for concerns about widespread use of the New Testament, and perhaps they had a point, but of course it's good that people can read it. But people read it at face value, not having a clue of the design behind it. I work to help people see the possibility that the Almighty did not dictate the Bible word for word to some people sitting in a room with parchment and quill pens.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I think it’s brave to think an off-shoot of Judaism would be a unifying religion for Rome, especially with the persecutions. I think many Hellenized Jews would have wanted to accept what Paul was feeding them since the revolts and zealots was making all the provinces unstable.

Paul had very, very few converts among the Jewish diaspora. Virtually all his converts were Gentiles, most likely what Jews would have called God Fearers. That's why it took only a century for Christianity to go from being a Jewish sect, to a Gentile religion.

 

[GoodAttention]

Paul had very, very few converts among the Jewish diaspora. Virtually all his converts were Gentiles, most likely what Jews would have called God Fearers. That's why it took only a century for Christianity to go from being a Jewish sect, to a Gentile religion.

Is there any mention of the Essenes existing in Jewish history? If they did exist I can see them joining Paul given there’s no mention of them in the first century.

 

[Sumadji]

Now in 1 Corinthians 9, Paul is complaining, boasting, comparing himself to temple priests, and expecting to be taken care of because of who he says he is. In verse 12 he says if they do it for others, doesn't he and his deserve so more? In verse 14 he misrepresents Jesus's words, IMO, by writing that the Lord said those who proclaim the Gospel should get their living by the Gospel. By this statement, in my interpretation, he misrepresents the entire Gospel message. In verses 20-22 he clearly admits he intentionally misrepresents himself, and IMO, that is quite a sin in one of his chosen position.

IMO this is quite wrong. Paul intended the opposite. Paul is saying that although he would be entitled to be supported -- as other preachers allowed themselves to be supported -- he insisted on paying his own way by manual work with his own hands?

"If we have sown spiritual seed among you, is it too much if we reap a material harvest from you? If others have this right of support from you, shouldn’t we have it all the more? But we did not use this right. On the contrary, we put up with anything rather than hinder the gospel of Christ.

Don’t you know that those who serve in the temple get their food from the temple, and that those who serve at the altar share in what is offered on the altar? In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel. But I have not used any of these rights."
1 Corinthians 9:11-15


"We are fools for Christ, but you are so wise in Christ! We are weak, but you are strong! You are honored, we are dishonored! To this very hour we go hungry and thirsty, we are in rags, we are brutally treated, we are homeless. We work hard with our own hands. When we are cursed, we bless; when we are persecuted, we endure it; when we are slandered, we answer kindly. We have become the scum of the earth, the garbage of the world—right up to this moment.
1 Corinthians 4:10-14

 

[Ebionite]

I'm not a fan. I think he was self-impressed, self-absorbed, and self-centered. As far as I'm concerned he turned what should have been Christianity into Paulism. Modern Christianity is only a pale shadow of Jesus. It's mostly Paulism and "Constantinity" ... two bodies separated by 300 years sharing one brain and agenda. Largely because of them we have Christian fundamentalist crazies running amok.

This is about Paul:

Behold, his soul [which] is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.
Yea also, because he transgresseth by wine, [he is] a proud man, neither keepeth at home, who enlargeth his desire as hell, and [is] as death, and cannot be satisfied, but gathereth unto him all nations, and heapeth unto him all people:
Habakkuk 2:4-5

 

[Sumadji]

Paul’s writings came before the Gospels. He is the first Christian writer. Paul met Peter and James, Jesus’s own brother, and they accepted him

"Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and remained with him fifteen days. But I saw none of the other apostles except James, the Lord’s brother. Now concerning the things which I write to you, indeed, before God, I do not lie.
Galatians 1:18-20

Paul and Peter had their differences, however Peter came around to accepting Paul’s view that the gentile Christians need not observe the Jewish customs of circumcision and kosher diet and so on
Peter's Vision: Acts 10

 

[wellwisher]

What do you think of Paul the Apostle?

Paul was more future looking and attempted to take into account the promise that Jesus made, about leaving behind a comforter; Holy Spirit and Spirit of Truth. Jesus demonstrated and spoke as someone who had that spirit; Son of God. The concept of the trinity assumes three expressions of God; Father, Son and now the Holy Spirit that was promised.

Paul makes a contrast between the children of the bondwoman, which are those still under law; knowledge of good and evil, and the children of the promise; children of God, who receive the living spirit. This spirit is like an instinctive inner voice, in real time, for any situation and not an external voice of learned and rehearsed knowledge of good and evil; freedom and not a yoke.

All things are lawful but not all things edify. All things are lawful but I will not be mastered by anything. With the spirit guiding you, it may lead to what appears to be unlawful acts, according the law; Jew hanging with the Gentiles. But since this impulse is from the spirit; Blessed is he whose sins the Lord will not take into account. In the link, below I summarized the ideas of Paul in what I call the Gospel of Freedom connected to the promise of the spirit, where anyone who believes in the promise, will have has a direct line to God, via the spirit of Truth; Children of the promise.

Part of the problem, then and now, were the false prophets of Satan and how do you know which is which? So law remained. Paul attempts to create a dividing line in terms of behavior so one can know which is which.

The Gospel of Freedom

 

[Sumadji]

In the link, below I summarized the ideas of Paul in what I call the Gospel of Freedom connected to the promise of the spirit, where anyone who believes in the promise, will have has a direct line to God, via the spirit of Truth; Children of the promise.

Thank you

Bookmarked to read later

 

[Spice]

Paul’s writings came before the Gospels. He is the first Christian writer. Paul met Peter and James, Jesus’s own brother, and they accepted him

"Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and remained with him fifteen days. But I saw none of the other apostles except James, the Lord’s brother. Now concerning the things which I write to you, indeed, before God, I do not lie.
Galatians 1:18-20

Paul and Peter had their differences, however Peter came around to accepting Paul’s view that the gentile Christians need not observe the Jewish customs of circumcision and kosher diet and so on
Peter's Vision: Acts 10

I respectfully disagree. Peter worked with Paul and attempted to accept him and guide him, however, James the Just, though doing no harm, did not accept Paul and his tenants of faith. That is where the church had its first split, and Paul's took root with its pagan mix.

 

[Sumadji]

I respectfully disagree. Peter worked with Paul and attempted to accept him and guide him, however, James the Just, though doing no harm, did not accept Paul and his tenants of faith. That is where the church had its first split, and Paul's took root with its pagan mix.

But you do accept that Peter, in Acts, came around to Paul's stance that new gentile Christians were not bound by Jewish observance?

Bible Gateway passage: Acts 10:9-11:18 - New King James Version

Peter’s Vision - The next day, as they went on their journey and drew near the city, Peter went up on the housetop to pray, about the sixth hour. Then he became very hungry and wanted to eat; but while they made ready, he fell into a trance and saw heaven opened and an object like a great sheet...

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Link]

He is misunderstood. He is teaching Welayat from Adam (a) till Jesus (a) as the Religion. But people don't understand what he means, because of Satanic casting.

 

[Spice]

But you do accept that Peter, in Acts, came around to Paul's stance that new gentile Christians were not bound by Jewish observance?

Bible Gateway passage: Acts 10:9-11:18 - New King James Version

Peter’s Vision - The next day, as they went on their journey and drew near the city, Peter went up on the housetop to pray, about the sixth hour. Then he became very hungry and wanted to eat; but while they made ready, he fell into a trance and saw heaven opened and an object like a great sheet...

www.biblegateway.com

That was always the Jewish view. Gentiles were only under the covenant of Noah. The discrepancy was in Jews accepting the new faith. Regardless of the form of Judaism (Sadducees, Pharisees, Essenes at that time), they were to uphold the covenant of Noah, and Moses, even if a new covenant was added on. Covenants with God accepted are never released as I understand the teachings of Judaism.

 

[Sumadji]

That was always the Jewish view. Gentiles were only under the covenant of Noah. The discrepancy was in Jews accepting the new faith. Regardless of the form of Judaism (Sadducees, Pharisees, Essenes at that time), they were to uphold the covenant of Noah, and Moses, even if a new covenant was added on. Covenants with God accepted are never released as I understand the teachings of Judaism.

Therefore Peter came around to accept that new gentile Christians were not bound by Jewish observance?

 

[Colt]

What do you think of Paul the Apostle?

A great convert who was very persuasive with his own religious opinions which had tremendous influence on the Christian religion.

 

[Spice]

Therefore Peter came around to accept that new gentile Christians were not bound by Jewish observance?

You missed the point -- Gentiles were never expected to abide by Jewish law. However, there were a great deal of disporia Jews living among the Gentiles north of Palestine and this was the basis of the controversy in the Jerusalem Church. After 70 CE it didn't matter any more and foreseeing what was near at hand, Peter chose the survival of the Church over arguing Paul's theology, thus Peter was indeed the rock fountain to what Paul built. Otherwise we would have lost the Good News completely. Now we still have the rock foundation of the Gospels to rebuild upon as we pull the Paganism away through scholarship.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Is there any mention of the Essenes existing in Jewish history? If they did exist I can see them joining Paul given there’s no mention of them in the first century.

Flavius Josephus and Philo of Alexandria were both Jews who spoke of the Essenes, although their writings are not considered Jewish sacred texts.

In addition, we have all sorts of manuscripts among the DDS that outline the teachings and activities of the Essenes at Qumran.

 

[Twilight Hue]

What do you think of Paul the Apostle?

A fake apostle that should not be believed whom the warning in Matthew 24:23 applies to.

 

[GoodAttention]

Flavius Josephus and Philo of Alexandria were both Jews who spoke of the Essenes, although their writings are not considered Jewish sacred texts.

In addition, we have all sorts of manuscripts among the DDS that outline the teachings and activities of the Essenes at Qumran.

I would go by the DDS, which do show the Essene to be a separate group of Jewish thinking.

The fact that they then disappear begs the question whether they converted to Christianity.