What do you think of Purgatory?

[IndigoChild5559]

Gehenna was a garbage pit outside of Jerusalem where things were destroyed.

It is quite common for words to have more than one meaning. A bat can be a flying mammal, or a bat can be a stick that you hit a ball with. The word Gehinnom similarly has two meanings. The garbage pit was one. A temporary hell was the other. If you are having a religious discussion and mention Gehenna, you are clearly referring to the temporary hell, not to the garbage pit.

Thus, like I have already said, every time Jesus (when in these religious conversations) mentions Gehenna, he is mentioning a temporary hell for purification.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

.......Thus, like I have already said, every time Jesus (when in these religious conversations) mentions Gehenna, he is mentioning a temporary hell for purification.

Since Jesus knew 'the dead know nothing', nothing but sleep, then there is No temporary hell fire for purification.
- John 11:11-14; Psalm 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5
Since the dead are acquitted of their sins - Romans 6:7 - biblically there is No purification for the acquitted.
Even in a court of law the acquitted are let go. The acquitted don't first have to go to a temporary fire.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Since Jesus knew 'the dead know nothing', nothing but sleep, then there is No temporary hell fire for purification.
- John 11:11-14; Psalm 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5
Since the dead are acquitted of their sins - Romans 6:7 - biblically there is No purification for the acquitted.
Even in a court of law the acquitted are let go. The acquitted don't first have to go to a temporary fire.

As I have stated many times in this forum, the Bible has a NUMBER of different ideas about the afterlife, some of which are contradictory. This is simply a reflection of there being so many different authors writing at very different periods of time. Thus, you can't simply quote a few verses and claim this proves one view and disproves the others.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

It is clear you take the Adam and Eve story to be history. I don't. To me, it is simply a wonderful creative piece of fiction...........

Did the 'whole nation of ancient Israel' think Adam and Eve was just a story, if that was so how do you explain 1st Chronicles chapter one's Jewish ancestral list _______________ along with Luke 3:38 _____________

 

[URAVIP2ME]

As I have stated many times in this forum, the Bible has a NUMBER of different ideas about the afterlife, some of which are contradictory. This is simply a reflection of there being so many different authors writing at very different periods of time. Thus, you can't simply quote a few verses and claim this proves one view and disproves the others.

Where does Jesus teach 'afterlife' ( being more alive after death than before death ) ___________

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Did the 'whole nation of ancient Israel' think Adam and Eve was just a story, if that was so how do you explain 1st Chronicles chapter one's Jewish ancestral list _______________ along with Luke 3:38 _____________

There have always been those who recognize that creation myths are not historical, and there have always been those who have taken them literally.

I'm not sure what you are referring to with "1 Chronicles," etc. You need to quote the verses you want me to respond to. Generally speaking, I tend not to respond to New Testament texts, since I don't accept their authority.

 

[YoursTrue]

As an atheist, I don’t think about purgatory.

When I was an atheist, I did not think much about purgatory either, meaning that I did not think it existed. And I also did not believe in heaven or hell as described by many. I thought this life was all there is. And that religion was one big awful farce. But! things changed, and now I recognize there is no such thing as purgatory, and heaven and hell is seriously misunderstood by many.

 

[YoursTrue]

It is quite common for words to have more than one meaning. A bat can be a flying mammal, or a bat can be a stick that you hit a ball with. The word Gehinnom similarly has two meanings. The garbage pit was one. A temporary hell was the other. If you are having a religious discussion and mention Gehenna, you are clearly referring to the temporary hell, not to the garbage pit.

Thus, like I have already said, every time Jesus (when in these religious conversations) mentions Gehenna, he is mentioning a temporary hell for purification.

Things were burned up in Gehenna. It was the garbage pit.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

............ I'm not sure what you are referring to with "1 Chronicles," etc. You need to quote the verses you want me to respond to. Generally speaking, I tend not to respond to New Testament texts, since I don't accept their authority.

Oops, I just thought you were familiar with 1st Chronicles. Sorry for getting ahead of myself.
The reason I wanted to mention 1 Chron.1:1 was because there the Jewish ancestral list begins/starts with the man Adam.
Luke would have used those long-existing temple records in Luke chapter 3 agreeing going back starting with Adam.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Oops, I just thought you were familiar with 1st Chronicles. Sorry for getting ahead of myself.
The reason I wanted to mention 1 Chron.1:1 was because there the Jewish ancestral list begins/starts with the man Adam.
Luke would have used those long-existing temple records in Luke chapter 3 agreeing going back starting with Adam.

There are many different approaches Jews have to the sacred texts. Some Jews have a very literal interpretation. Some Jews believe there is nothing sacred about the texts at all. I personally have a pretty liberal understanding. Even in sections like Chronicles that I think has a pretty good record of actual history, there are instances such as this genealogy where it relies on other portions of the Bible that are mythological, and not historical.

The story of Adam and Eve is rich and meaningful. It makes pertinent comments on human nature. But it is not a historical account. Thus any "genealogy" that traces back to Adam and Eve is fabricated, inaccurate.

It is not a problem for me. It absolutely does not bother me in any way that some of the things in the sacred texts are fiction. Fiction is perhaps the best way we have to teach values and the deeper truths of life. When I read the Bible, I am far less concerned with "Is this passage historical?" than I am with "What can I learn from this passage? What valuable lessons is it trying to teach me?"

I'm not going to address the two contradictory genealogies in the gospels, both of them fictitious, because, as I said, there is nothing authoritative about the New Testament for me as a Jew.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

.......................... I'm not going to address the two contradictory genealogies in the gospels, both of them fictitious, because, as I said, there is nothing authoritative about the New Testament for me as a Jew.

I was merely expressing that what Luke wrote in chapter 3 was from the old Jewish ancestral temple records.
Old Hebrew Scripture at 1st Chronicles chapter 1 verse 1 starts out with Adam as a real person.
If Jews do Not accept 1st Chronicles I did Not know that. Thank you for that information.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I was merely expressing that what Luke wrote in chapter 3 was from the old Jewish ancestral temple records.

You really have no idea where the gospel writers got their genealogies from. When you consider that they contradict each other, the only thing we DO know is that they had different sources.

Old Hebrew Scripture at 1st Chronicles chapter 1 verse 1 starts out with Adam as a real person.
If Jews do Not accept 1st Chronicles I did Not know that. Thank you for that information.

You need to go back and read what I've written again, since you have clearly misunderstood me.

 

[MelancholicPotatoChip]

Things were burned up in Gehenna. It was the garbage pit.

Are you one of Jehovah's Witnesses? I am curious because I was taught this by JW's because my mother was one and still is.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Since Jesus knew 'the dead know nothing', nothing but sleep, then there is No temporary hell fire for purification.
- John 11:11-14; Psalm 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5
Since the dead are acquitted of their sins - Romans 6:7 - biblically there is No purification for the acquitted.
Even in a court of law the acquitted are let go. The acquitted don't first have to go to a temporary fire.

There are several verses in the Gospels that Jesus said otherwise.
..'the sheep and the goats', for example..

 

[YoursTrue]

Are you one of Jehovah's Witnesses? I am curious because I was taught this by JW's because my mother was one and still is.

Yes, I am happy to say I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses. And a review of the words in the Bible show me that Jesus alluded to Gehenna as the place of destruction. Not eternal physical torment of the damned. It is a term used for eternal destruction.
Mark 9:43 "And if thy hand shall cause thee to stumble cut it off,—It is seemly for thee maimed to enter into life, Rather than having the two hands to depart into the gehenna, into the fire that is not quenched;"
Please notice that not all Bibles translate it accurately, sometimes the translator uses the word Hell, but that is misleading.

 

[YoursTrue]

I was merely expressing that what Luke wrote in chapter 3 was from the old Jewish ancestral temple records.
Old Hebrew Scripture at 1st Chronicles chapter 1 verse 1 starts out with Adam as a real person.
If Jews do Not accept 1st Chronicles I did Not know that. Thank you for that information.

Oddly enough, the Hebrew Scriptures are not "authoritative enough" for many who claim to go to various houses of worship.

 

[YoursTrue]

You really have no idea where the gospel writers got their genealogies from. When you consider that they contradict each other, the only thing we DO know is that they had different sources.

You need to go back and read what I've written again, since you have clearly misunderstood me.

One might wonder where the "Old Testament" writers got their genealogy from. As I understand it the records of birth were kept in the temple and were destroyed when the Romans ransacked the temple in the first century.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

One might wonder where the "Old Testament" writers got their genealogy from. As I understand it the records of birth were kept in the temple and were destroyed when the Romans ransacked the temple in the first century.

Yes, the temple records (starting with 1st Chronicles) is where Luke could have easily got his information - Luke 1:3; 3:23-38

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Yes, I am happy to say I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses. And a review of the words in the Bible show me that Jesus alluded to Gehenna as the place of destruction. Not eternal physical torment of the damned. It is a term used for eternal destruction.
Mark 9:43 "And if thy hand shall cause thee to stumble cut it off,—It is seemly for thee maimed to enter into life, Rather than having the two hands to depart into the gehenna, into the fire that is not quenched;"
Please notice that not all Bibles translate it accurately, sometimes the translator uses the word Hell, but that is misleading.

Good point ^ above^ because the words hell and hellfire I find are from two (2) different words.
KJV wrongly translated the word Gehenna into English as hellfire.
Gehenna's fire was a garbage pit where thing were destroyed forever.
Kind of like when something is thrown into a fire place and is then gone forever.
- www.jw.org

 

[johnpegasis7]

There has been an interesting thing on Polish YouTube for a couple of years now, they are YT channels intended for Christians, in which messages are written from spiritual beings who have reached several prophets from all over the world,
Each message goes to more than 10 of these Christian channels..
It is supposed to be messages in which these beings, for several years now, have been speaking to a large prayer group that he is preparing for the great judgment, they wrote them various messages there, including apocalyptic ones, which they are expected to deliver soon,
But they say there are only few weeks left until the big disaster...
It's interesting....

https://m.youtube.com/@WorldofPrayers

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