What do you think of Purgatory?

[URAVIP2ME]

I do, actually..
I believe that Jesus, the Son of Mary, will return at an appointed time (as the Messiah, and not G-d).
He will rid the earth of corruption and disbelief, and bring in a global, 'golden age'.
..but after ~1000 years, future generations will become complacent, and disbelief will return.
..whereas JW's believe that the earth will be 'happily ever after'.

Right, Jesus to return as Messiah but Not in the flesh (John 14:19) and Not as God.
Even the resurrected ascended-to-heaven Jesus still thinks he has a God over him - Revelation 3:12
After the 1000 yrs 'everlasting life will be locked in place' because only the meek will inherit the Earth
Those who prove disbelieving at the end of the thousand years will then be gone forever - Rev. 20:7-9
Yes, Jehovah's Witnesses believe Revelation's Happy Climax that there will be 'healing' for earth's nations - Rev. 22:2

- www.jw.org

 

[muhammad_isa]

Right, No one will be run over by a car, etc.

Why? Will the laws of nature change at some point?

Only God is immortal..

..so how can anybody live on 'paradise earth' ? How long will they live for, then?

Those who have that first or earlier resurrection also will be granted immortal life in Heaven..

A contradiction .. you just said that only G-d is immortal.

Mortal as Adam was mortal. Mortal Adam could only die if he chose to break God's Law.

No .. we are flesh .. we can bleed out, for example.

A person can Not return to a place he never was before..

..and so where were you before you were born?
..and how do you know?
Most people can't remember.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I do, actually..
I believe that Jesus, the Son of Mary, will return at an appointed time (as the Messiah, and not G-d).

He will rid the earth of corruption and disbelief, and bring in a global, 'golden age'.
..but after ~1000 years, future generations will become complacent, and disbelief will return.

..whereas JW's believe that the earth will be 'happily ever after'.

Okay, sorry. I did run a google check first, and it indicated that Muslims do NOT believe in a 1000 year reign. However, you are also an individual, so if your personal beliefs are different than that, I understand. Thank you for clarifying.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Okay, sorry. I did run a google check first, and it indicated that Muslims do NOT believe in a 1000 year reign. However, you are also an individual, so if your personal beliefs are different than that, I understand. Thank you for clarifying.

Well, in a bit more detail..

Jesus' rule is said to be around forty years, after which he will die (since according to Islam, Jesus did not die on the cross but was taken up to heaven and continues to live until his return in the second coming).
Second_Coming - Wikipedia

..and this corresponds with the global, 1000 year reign. It is not necessary for Jesus / Messiah to be alive for the full 1000 years of golden age .. and only G-d knows how long he will live.

..and from what I understand, Jesus will be more of a spiritual leader, than worldy ruler/King ..
..as he was the fist time, 2000 years ago.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Why? Will the laws of nature change at some point?
..so how can anybody live on 'paradise earth' ? How long will they live for, then?
A contradiction .. you just said that only G-d is immortal.
No .. we are flesh .. we can bleed out, for example.
..and so where were you before you were born?
..and how do you know?
Most people can't remember.

Just as Adam could have lived on 'paradise Eden' forever if he listened to God.
Only God is immortal because He is from everlasting - Psalm 90:2
Immortal God granted immortality to resurrected Jesus and to only those who govern with him - Rev. 20:6
Mortal Adam could have bled out but because of originally having human perfection he would not.
Like mortal Adam before he came to life, before we were pro-created we also had No life.
Adam was never an angel before being formed or fashioned from the dust of the ground - Genesis 2:7
People who say they can remember before birth does Not mean they really remember.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Well, in a bit more detail..
Jesus' rule is said to be around forty years, after which he will die (since according to Islam, Jesus did not die on the cross but was taken up to heaven and continues to live until his return in the second coming)..............................
..and this corresponds with the global, 1000 year reign. It is not necessary for Jesus / Messiah to be alive for the full 1000 years of golden age .. and only G-d knows how long he will live.
..and from what I understand, Jesus will be more of a spiritual leader, than worldy ruler/King ..
..as he was the fist time, 2000 years ago.

The immortal are death proof. Can't die. God granted immortality to Jesus according to John 5:26
So, 'yes' Jesus will be alive for the full 1000 years.
Jesus as King of God's Kingdom is both a spiritual leader and ruling governing King - Matt. 25:34 A - the King is Jesus.
Resurrected Jesus ascended to Heaven itself - Hebrews 9:24 B - There is No death in Heaven.

 

[Comradio251]

This question is addressed to Christians, particularly.
I am curious about the other people's stance, though.
So anyone can express their opinion on what Purgatory is.

Purgatory - Wikipedia

You can express your global vision on soteriology, as well. I would appreciate it, if you did.
Thank you in advance.

It's an absolutely silly catholic invention. I wonder if I will hear something similar to elevator music while I'm waiting in the 'lobby.' How ludicrous!

 

[muhammad_isa]

Mortal Adam could have bled out but because of originally having human perfection he would not..

..so suddenly, we will no longer be able to bleed out?
No .. you are misled .. it is nothing but imaginative dogma.

You (JW's) confuse this present life with a new creation.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Mortal Adam could have bled out

Bled out? I wasn't aware there was a part of the story where he was seriously wounded.

 

[Muffled]

Right. One genealogy is in Matthew, the other in Luke. So what is your point? They contradict, thus, they cannot possibly both be using the same source.

I believe anyone who has done genealogy on the internet has run into alternative ancestral lines because people get things wrong. It does not matter. Only the ancestors of Mary matter and none of that is listed supposedly although some scholars suggest the Luke ancestry is actually Mary's line.

 

[Muffled]

I am wondering what Scripture you have in mind where Jesus says the world would end___________
At John 11:11 Jesus is in reference to King Solomon's words at Ecclesiastes 9:5

Mat. 24:35 Heaven and earth will pass away

 

[Muffled]

Salam

Hell surrounds disbelievers to some degree in this world. Paradise surrounds believers in this world to some degree. After death, hell surrounds disbelievers more. And paradise surrounds believers more. However, both of these are dormant in this world and after death that a person who is blind to God and his justice, will not witness them to the degree of certainty. They won't manifest fully till the day of judgment.

It's on the day of judgment, when souls will no longer be asleep but realize their deeds. Whatever punishment is delivered by Angels (a) till day of judgment pales to the day of judgment, and in no way manifests the truth as the day of judgment will.

Also, people who die under control of Satan will be under his control till day of judgment per Quran. This found in Surah The Bees, when it says Satan today is their Wali because of what they did.

On day of judgment, souls will realize Satan cannot save them nor can they save him. They won't even try to put a resistance when they witness God's exalted ones as well as Angels (a).

I believe you must be speaking metaphorically since I am not surrounded by hell nor paradise.

 

[Link]

I believe you must be speaking metaphorically since I am not surrounded by hell nor paradise.

It's unseen in this world. It's even unseen after death, but more revealed. It's only on the day of judgment it's reality will be clear.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Mat. 24:35 Heaven and earth will pass away

Besides Matt. 24:35 we also find that at Luke 21:33, but notice who is 'destroyed ' at 2nd Peter 3:7 - Not Heaven or Earth
Besides, why would God destroy Heaven, destroy His home - 1st Kings 8:39
But the 'governmental heavens' (those who wrongly govern over mankind) will pass away, and so will wicked humanity
- Psalms 92:7; 104:35; 145:20; Proverbs 2:21-22
" Earth abides forever " (Ecclesiastes 1:4 B) and so will the meek who will inherit the Earth as Jesus promised
- Matt. 5:5 from Psalms 37:9-11; 22:26

 

[URAVIP2ME]

It's unseen in this world. It's even unseen after death, but more revealed. It's only on the day of judgment it's reality will be clear.

I find even before future Resurrection Day (Acts 24:15) there is a coming Day of Judgement for the living on Earth
At the soon coming Glory Time of separation - Matt. 25:31-34,37 - King Jesus judges the living people on Earth
Jesus separates the 'sheep from the goats', and the 'sheep' receive a 'favorable judgement' can be here to see calendar Day One of Jesus' coming Millennium-Long Day governing over Earth for a thousand years with the opportunity for the living 'sheep' to gain everlasting life on Earth
Eternal life living on Earth forever as originally offered to Adam before his downfall
Remember (John 3:13) No one was offered a heavenly resurrection before Jesus died (David for example - Acts 2:34)
Heavenly resurrection is for those of Rev. 20:6; Daniel 7:18 who will govern with Christ Jesus for a thousand years over the humble meek who will inherit the Earth just as Jesus promised
- Rev. 5:9-10

 

[URAVIP2ME]

..so suddenly, we will no longer be able to bleed out?
No .. you are misled .. it is nothing but imaginative dogma.
You (JW's) confuse this present life with a new creation.

Yes, today in this system it would be imagination to not bleed out
The Bible is about a new system where there will be health for all for always - Isaiah 33:24; chapter 35 of Isaiah
This is why we are all invited to pray to God for Jesus to come ! - Rev. 22:20
We are Not asked to pray to God to be 'taken away' to Jesus, or be 'taken up' to Jesus, but for Jesus to come
Come and bring 'healing' to earth's nations - Rev. 22:2
So, to me there is No confusion with the present (temporary) life and being made new during Jesus' 1000 yr.reign over Earth
This is when even ' enemy death ' will be No more on Earth - see 1st Corinthians 15:24-26

- www.jw.org

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Bled out? I wasn't aware there was a part of the story where he was seriously wounded.

As long as mortal Adam did Not break God's 'Law of the Land' (Eden) he had perfect health and would not die
Once mortal Adam sinned then Adam lost his human perfection and was subject to dying even from a serious wound

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I believe anyone who has done genealogy on the internet has run into alternative ancestral lines because people get things wrong. It does not matter. Only the ancestors of Mary matter and none of that is listed supposedly although some scholars suggest the Luke ancestry is actually Mary's line.

Sure. DIFFERENT SOURCES, just like I said.

I disagree with you about "Mary's line." The text very definitely says Joseph. If you are doing Mary's line, it would mention Mary.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

As long as mortal Adam did Not break God's 'Law of the Land' (Eden) he had perfect health and would not die
Once mortal Adam sinned then Adam lost his human perfection and was subject to dying even from a serious wound

This is the second time in the last 10 minutes that you have completely missed the point. The point is that it was mentioned that Adam could have "bled out," when in fact the story mentions nothing of the kind. I mean, I assume that you are using the English language in the normal sense. Like, let's say Joe gets stabbed and the ambulance takes him to the hospital, where his life is just narrowly saved. His wife says, "Oh my God, he could have bled out!" IOW saying "he could have bled out" implies that something happened that might have caused this. In the case of Adam, that is not the case, at least, not within the story.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

This is the second time in the last 10 minutes that you have completely missed the point. The point is that it was mentioned that Adam could have "bled out," when in fact the story mentions nothing of the kind. I mean, I assume that you are using the English language in the normal sense. Like, let's say Joe gets stabbed and the ambulance takes him to the hospital, where his life is just narrowly saved. His wife says, "Oh my God, he could have bled out!" IOW saying "he could have bled out" implies that something happened that might have caused this. In the case of Adam, that is not the case, at least, not within the story.

Point is: crime would Not have happened in Eden
No one would have stabbed anyone because none in Eden would have been sinners. Only sinners commit crimes.
in Eden Adam had perfect physical awareness with his perfectly healthy mind, heart and body