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What do you think of Purgatory?

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
This question is addressed to Christians, particularly.:)
I am curious about the other people's stance, though.
So anyone can express their opinion on what Purgatory is.

Purgatory - Wikipedia

You can express your global vision on soteriology, as well. I would appreciate it, if you did.
Thank you in advance.

Personally, I believe the general concept of purgatory is incorrect and that being that somehow semi-good people are being cleansed or paying for their sins.

The legal ramifications of the cross speaks otherwise…

Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Hebrews 10: 1-18 summed up in 12 "But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;"

The legality is that sin and all of its consequences were on Jesus and have been completely removed as far as the east is from the west. (Psalm 103:12). Though our sins were red as scarlet, He has made us white a snow (Is 1:18)

My understanding is that the story of the rich man and Lazarus is real. Abraham’s bosom was not a “purgatory” even though all had sinned. Was the other side of the chasm a purgatory until Jesus paid for all sins and are the people Jesus preached to after the removal of sins (`1 Peter 3:19)? Maybe. Is it just a holding cell until the day of Judgment? A definite maybe. Maybe a combination of the two? Possibly - beyond my pay-grade.

God is just, merciful and right. THAT I know.

Definitely, there is no purgatory today (if there was one)
 

muhammad_isa

Veteran Member
Personally, I believe the general concept of purgatory is incorrect and that being that somehow semi-good people are being cleansed or paying for their sins..
As I understand it, the vast majority of us are "semi-good" i.e. sinners

I think it unlikely that our 'spiritual destination' is a binary one ..
..and as these 'places' (heaven/hell) are not geographical ones, one could see purgatory as
being in hell, for a time, and eventually coming out from thence..
 

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
This question is addressed to Christians, particularly.:)
I am curious about the other people's stance, though.
So anyone can express their opinion on what Purgatory is.

Purgatory - Wikipedia

You can express your global vision on soteriology, as well. I would appreciate it, if you did.
Thank you in advance.
Purgatory is, for all practical purposes, equivalent to Heaven. The time you need to spend there, before promotion, is zero compared with the time you will spend in Heaven, and it is therefore vanishing irrelevant.

Ciao

- viole
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
God is just, merciful and right. THAT I know.
I think that if God were merciful, He would be unjust, because He would let victims and perpetrators coexist in the afterlife.
Victims don't want to see their own perpetrators ever.
Besides, James 5 clearly speaks of Hell, which is the punishment for a certain category of powerful people who victimize the weak.

 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Interesting to say eternal to be ' all time ' / ' without time '
Since eternity is in our hearts because for each second we can count we can count both forwards and backwards forever and ever.
Plus, since 'Earth abides forever' - Ecclesiastes 1:4 B; Psalm 104:5 - then to me Earth time will also exist forever.
That's a reason why Jesus could say humble meek people will inherit the Earth - Matt. 5:5 from Psalms 37:9-11; 22:26
I would prefer the words of God spoken by Jesus over the philosopher in Ecclesiastes. Jesus did say the world would end.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Yes, the temple records (starting with 1st Chronicles) is where Luke could have easily got his information - Luke 1:3; 3:23-38
Being as how the two genealogies in the gospels contradict, you cannot say they both got it from temple records.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Yes, the disobedient angels of Noah's day had to put on materialized earthly bodies to mate with earth's women.
The paradisical Garden of Eden did have earthly pleasures for material/physical creation.
Since Jesus asked us to pray for God's Will (His purpose) to be done on Earth as it is done in Heaven.....
When we think of Heaven there is: No crime in Heaven, No violence, No war, No sickness and No death in Heaven.
Those bad conditions exist now on Earth, but when God's Will/Purpose is done on Earth as it is done in Heaven, then we will have those same healthy paradisical heavenly conditions to come and exist on Earth.
Paradisical conditions such as: No war on Earth - Psalm 46:9; No more death on Earth - 1st Corinthians 15:26; Isaiah 25:8
I believe that appears to be a misinterpretation.

I believe He was not specific as to what that means. It is obvious to me that the nothingness of Heaven can't exist on the material earth.

I believe we can safely say that will be so in The Kingdom of God except for the sickness because trees for healing are mentioned.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Qualifications -> Luke 22:28-30; Revelation 2:10-11; Revelation 20:4; 2nd Timothy 4:7-8; James 1:12
The 'sheep' of Matthew 25:37 are Not the ' brothers' of Matthew 25:40; Hebrews 6:10
The 'saints or holy ones' of Daniel 7:18 are Not the 'sheep' nor those of Acts 24:15
The 'saints/holy ones' have a first or earlier resurrection - Revelation 20:6 - over those of Acts 24:15
I believe that is not Heaven but is the Kingdom of God which descends to earth.

I believe there is no mention of Heaven but the mention of crown suggests the Kingdom of God.

I believe this is the qualification for the Kingdom of God: Rev 7:14 I said to him, “Sir, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation. They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
 

wellwisher

Well-Known Member
This question is addressed to Christians, particularly.:)
I am curious about the other people's stance, though.
So anyone can express their opinion on what Purgatory is.

Purgatory - Wikipedia

You can express your global vision on soteriology, as well. I would appreciate it, if you did.
Thank you in advance.
Purgatory is like a temporary half way house between heaven and hell. It is similar to an induction ceremony, into the hall of fame or the hall of shame; heaven and hell. St Peter presides.

No human is perfect. We have all sinned to various degrees, or failed to sin enough to various degrees. This means there are very few people who are extremely good or extremely evil, who are inducted into heaven or hell on a first round ballot. Larry Bird and Magic Johnson both were inducted into the NBA hall of fame in the first round, just after retirement. There are not many of those in heaven or hell. Most people are like an old musician, who is inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, when they are in their seventies; lifetime achievement.

Most people will get into one of those two places, over time, but this may require many voting cycles. Part of the extended voting has to do with the living; those you left behind. It is how they remember you, that can add votes in your favor, for either place. Good works and deeds toward others can help make up for your short comings allowing you to become inducted into heaven. Or bad works and deeds towards others can speed up your votes for induction into hell. Most religions and culture have days of mourning, like Memorial Day, so extra votes can come in for everyone waiting in the Halls of Purgatory.

There is also the votes by those who knew you, but died and departed before you. As you wait with all the others, you can renew connections and vote for each other. Departed grandparents always give good votes to the rookies who just arrive.
 
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YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Being as how the two genealogies in the gospels contradict, you cannot say they both got it from temple records.
Just for informational purposes, because I do not believe you are reading my posts, (1) you don't believe the Bible's chronology anyway, but (2) Joseph took on the position of being Mary's husband and father to Jesus. The genealogies do not conflict but are taken from two lineages, both connected. Anyway, have a nice day, take care.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
I think that if God were merciful, He would be unjust, because He would let victims and perpetrators coexist in the afterlife.
Victims don't want to see their own perpetrators ever.
Besides, James 5 clearly speaks of Hell, which is the punishment for a certain category of powerful people who victimize the weak.

I think He is both merciful and just. The problem I find is when we try to determine who is where and why, for that matter, how long or if the spirit is destroyed in the Lake of Fire.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Personally, I believe the general concept of purgatory is incorrect and that being that somehow semi-good people are being cleansed or paying for their sins.

The legal ramifications of the cross speaks otherwise…

Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Hebrews 10: 1-18 summed up in 12 "But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;"

The legality is that sin and all of its consequences were on Jesus and have been completely removed as far as the east is from the west. (Psalm 103:12). Though our sins were red as scarlet, He has made us white a snow (Is 1:18)

My understanding is that the story of the rich man and Lazarus is real. Abraham’s bosom was not a “purgatory” even though all had sinned. Was the other side of the chasm a purgatory until Jesus paid for all sins and are the people Jesus preached to after the removal of sins (`1 Peter 3:19)? Maybe. Is it just a holding cell until the day of Judgment? A definite maybe. Maybe a combination of the two? Possibly - beyond my pay-grade.

God is just, merciful and right. THAT I know.

Definitely, there is no purgatory today (if there was one)
Hello, Kenny. Some of us (like myself) have to cope with feelings of guilt because of mistakes we've made. Before I knew Christ I acted in a not-so-nice way. Now that I know more about Him, I am assured of His concern for his sheep. I do not believe there is a place called Purgatory, and I do remind myself that Jesus died and if I am repentant, I can be assured he will take me in as one of his sheep. But it's not always easy. I have to keep working on it. And in a way, this tells me that I'm on the right track. :) Because I keep learning and would never want to go back to the lifestyle I had before I believed in God.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Hello, Kenny. Some of us (like myself) have to cope with feelings of guilt because of mistakes we've made. Before I knew Christ I acted in a not-so-nice way. Now that I know more about Him, I am assured of His concern for his sheep. I do not believe there is a place called Purgatory, and I do remind myself that Jesus died and if I am repentant, I can be assured he will take me in as one of his sheep. But it's not always easy. I have to keep working on it. And in a way, this tells me that I'm on the right track. :) Because I keep learning and would never want to go back to the lifestyle I had before I believed in God.

I would agree with you. The beauty of the Gospel is that “There is therefore no condemnation to those who are in Christ” - that though are sins were “red as scarlet he has made them white as snow”.

At this point, I have finally learned that I am a new creature and “old things are passed away” eliminating my sense of guilt because I did repent and He washed it away.

Trust that He is doing the same for you! (We all have past)
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
I would agree with you. The beauty of the Gospel is that “There is therefore no condemnation to those who are in Christ” - that though are sins were “red as scarlet he has made them white as snow”.

At this point, I have finally learned that I am a new creature and “old things are passed away” eliminating my sense of guilt because I did repent and He washed it away.

Trust that He is doing the same for you! (We all have past)
Yes, thank you. That about brought tears to my eyes because I often convict myself, yet am looking to the time I can straighten things out in love. And we will all forgive one another. (Won't that be nice?)
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Yes, thank you. That about brought tears to my eyes because I often convict myself, yet am looking to the time I can straighten things out in love. And we will all forgive one another. (Won't that be nice?)
That would be beautiful!!!

Sometimes I think about how the Cross paid for all sins and thus we can forgive… but how I fall short in the truth that I am also equally forgiven and should just forgive myself because Jesus forgave me and I should believe Him. :)
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
I would prefer the words of God spoken by Jesus over the philosopher in Ecclesiastes. Jesus did say the world would end.
I am wondering what Scripture you have in mind where Jesus says the world would end___________
At John 11:11 Jesus is in reference to King Solomon's words at Ecclesiastes 9:5
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Being as how the two genealogies in the gospels contradict, you cannot say they both got it from temple records.
Where do they contradict _____________
* Matthew traces Jesus' Paternal lineage
* Luke traces Jesus' Maternal lineage ( Heli the father of Mary. Heli thus being Jesus' maternal grandfather )
At marriage a son-in-law was considered as 'son' - Luke 3:23
Luke traces the line through David's son Nathan - Luke 3:31
Matthew traces the line through Solomon - Matthew 1:6-7
 
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