What do you think of these Twenty Virtues Essential for Wisdom?

[Truthseeker]

Family we do need though. A healthy, happy, functional family is one of the greatest things a child can have growing up in regards to being a healthy, well adjusted adult. Family bonds are so deep we see many of them throughout nature, existing in basically every social species of animal. It's not good to be needy as in clingy and having to have them for attention, but the very phrase "absence of attachment to family" is a tragedy, not a virtue.

Feeling too much of an urgency to get married and have a family can lead to bad choices in finding a partner. I felt like that at one time. Fortunately, it didn't lead to anything bad at the time. I just got lucky.

Nope. Still morally pretentious and "hollieir than thou." "Living on only the material plane of existence"? That sounds like basically all atheists and agnostics.

Baha'u'llah tells us not to feel superior to sinners and the like because we don't know how we're respectively going to end up. Maybe on this one there is no possible agreement between you and I.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Baha'u'llah tells us not to feel superior to sinners and the like because we don't know how we're respectively going to end up.

That cannot be fulfilled with such willful discrimination and segregation. The Bible wants me dead, but it would be foolish and just wrong for me to insist that not being interested in their company is proper. Lots of them don't follow through on the Bible and it's every word and command, and some are friendly.

 

[Kenny]

I might have a good example
Suppose you really like pizza
But then you visit a friend and he serves you rice
Some people will reject, because they are attached to their pizza
But the Wise will understand that both are just food to keep the body going
So, The wise has "absence of attachment", the pizza-junk not

Of course the wise will enjoy his pizza or bowl of rice, but if he does not get it, he stays equal minded ... the junk not (too attached)

Sounds good to me.

next one.... "Absence in the interest in the company of Worldly minded'.

It could be taken in different ways. Yes, I have no interest in what the world is interested in but I am interested in the person of the worldly minded. I can take interest in, let's say, tennis and use tennis to reach the person who likes tennis. I'm not interested in their worldly jokes, getting high et al... but I am interested in them and would be all things to all men that I might win some (as long as it isn't sin).

Is that what it means?

 

[stvdv]

next one.... "Absence in the interest in the company of Worldly minded'.

It could be taken in different ways. Yes, I have no interest in what the world is interested in but I am interested in the person of the worldly minded. I can take interest in, let's say, tennis and use tennis to reach the person who likes tennis. I'm not interested in their worldly jokes, getting high et al... but I am interested in them and would be all things to all men that I might win some (as long as it isn't sin).

Is that what it means?

"Absence in the interest in the company of Worldly minded" is just that I think

Good example would be for me: Jesus (when young) choose to be in the temple where He could listen to stories about God

What is the significance of the story of Jesus in the temple at age 12?

An angel told Mary and Joseph about Jesus' purpose before Jesus was even born, yet they still didn't understand why Jesus stayed at the temple when they went home. Jesus was spending time with His true Father. Even at 12 years old, Jesus knew His purpose was to save people from sin.

Another example:
Nearby we have a Mega Baptist Church. During the Christmas days, they have many services, because more people come than can fit in 1 service. For like 3 days, they have 5 services, which are all the same. Those services were really uplifting. I went to all 5, even stayed in the Church in between (praying), because I felt God's Love here, and I was not interested to spend time with others indulging in worldly things, I rather stayed in the Church. People were surprised I went to all 5 services, because all were the same. But they obviously did not feel what I felt ... when you are with God, it's always fresh and good. Of course I could stay home and be with God, but listening to stories together with participating in devotional singing I just love

 

[stvdv]

Inner cleanliness makes sense, We call that being pure. Pure for us can be inner or outer. I don't know why I didn't see cleanliness the same way.

Gita calls it cleanliness. Sai Baba also calls it Purity. He says: "The three Ps, namely, purity, patience, and perseverance, are very important."

What I'm getting at is that we need to get out in the world sometimes, but solitude is needed sometimes for us to develop thinking for ourselves.

Aha, yes I agree. My Master reminded us in this way
"Helping hands are holier than praying lips"
"Hands in Society Heads in the Forest" {Here hands stand for service and head for mind of the humans.}
"Be like a lotus: be in the world, but not be attached to the world"

The lotus, born in slime and mud, rises up through the water and lifts its head high above the waters; it refuses to get wet though water is the element which gives it life! Be like the lotus. By action, done with all this care, the Vision gets clarified. Man is blinded by the objective world and he believes that world to be real, meaningful and worthy of pursuit. The cataract grows in the eye and robs it of its efficiency. The cataract is the enemy of the eye. Ignorance, the cataract of the inner eye, blinds the intellect and robs it of its efficiency. So, it cannot see the Divinity that is your real nature. It misleads you into the impression that you are a man (Manava), whereas you are really God (Madhava).

Consultation with others can also help us find the truth. I don't mean debating here, but consultation. We can learn from others.

I never debate (I leave that to the experts on debating, not my thing). What you call "consultation", I call "Satsang". This means "Sat=truth", "Sangha=group". Sharing my view with others. Listening to each other, but not arguing, nor debating about it. Whatever is useful for me, I take home with me. If something is not useful to me, probably it's useful for others. Similar to "discussion" on RF I think (not debating)

Ah! Then absence of egotism is more important than humility. Didn't notice the word "absence" quite in the right way

This exchange has been enlightening to me. It shows the importance of consultation in finding truth.

Yes. Sharing experiences with others has been really useful for me. Thank you for sharing. I enjoy to see things from the viewpoint of Bahauallah.

 

[stvdv]

Is that what it means?

Yes, I would say so

My Master taught us with below quotes (I see some of it also in your words, right?)
"Helping hands are holier than praying lips"
"Hands in Society Heads in the Forest" {Here hands stand for service and head for mind of the humans.}
"Be like a lotus: be in the world, but not be attached to the world"

The lotus, born in slime and mud, rises up through the water and lifts its head high above the waters; it refuses to get wet though water is the element which gives it life! Be like the lotus. By action, done with all this care, the Vision gets clarified. Man is blinded by the objective world and he believes that world to be real, meaningful and worthy of pursuit. The cataract grows in the eye and robs it of its efficiency. The cataract is the enemy of the eye. Ignorance, the cataract of the inner eye, blinds the intellect and robs it of its efficiency. So, it cannot see the Divinity that is your real nature. It misleads you into the impression that you are a man (Manava), whereas you are really God (Madhava).

 

[stvdv]

About the virtue: "Absence of attachment to family and home"

It's not anti-social to me, to me it doesn't mean not having a family or not spending time with the family, to me it means not being needy about wanting the affection of your wife and children. If you needy about wanting the affection of your children, that gets in the way of raising your children to be good people, you need to not spoil them and discipline them sometimes, and they may get mad at you temporarily for that.

Exactly, that is what I also understand when reading this virtue

Absence in interest in the worldly minded is what it says there, and that means to me not being interested in being friends with those who deny spiritual realities, who think that the material world is all there is, and act accordingly.

True. Nothing wrong with this decision. I am free to choose my company. Even better, my Master strongly advises:
"Tell me your company, I tell you who you are" (similar to what you describe in your quote below)

What I said originally is a little misleading. What I mean is people who's character has been corroded by living on only the material plane of existence. There's the danger there that if you associate too closely with such people your own character will be corroded also. You can also love them at the same time. Conversely if you associate with people with good behavior and attitude this can help improve your own character.

Was not misleading to me. You just shared your opinion, and I happen to agree with it

Perhaps you might a little bit of a point. I'll modify that to saying attachment to family means needing a family to me. That's not anti-social to me, it means you can have a family or not have one and it doesn't affect you that much. Having friends is sufficient.

The above virtue is totally not "Anti social", that is just misinterpretation.
I would even declare it is "super social". Attachments lead to "anti social"

 

[stvdv]

Wonder if there's a corresponding "20 vices essential for foolishness".

I know there are 6 vices which hold off wisdom (maybe there are 20 if I google a bit harder)

 

[Truthseeker]

That cannot be fulfilled with such willful discrimination and segregation.

It's about protecting yourself, not about segregation. A good person is not likely to affect a person sunk in depravity, but he might affect you negatively. Another thing, atheists can sometimes be a good person, and a religious person can be perverted in character. Worldly has a different connotation I think for than for you. Worldly people have no connection with good vibes in the world. I can't explain it adequately.

Never mind.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It's about protecting yourself, not about segregation. A good person is not likely to affect a person sunk in depravity, but he might affect you negatively. Another thing, atheists can sometimes be a good person, and a religious person can be perverted in character. Worldly has a different connotation I think for than for you. Worldly people have no connection with good vibes in the world. I can't explain it adequately.

Never mind.

Sounds like a nasty thought union of "holier than thou" combined with the same sort of reasoning a racist would use to insist it's not about segregation but protection.
People are people. Sure, some aren't good to be around but those include those who are violent, trouble makers, manipulators, thieves, and others who actually pose a real and legitimate risk.
"Depravity" is entirely a subjective moral judgment, often and typically used to up the degree of expressing dislike and disapproval. Like how political conservatives and liberals alike sometimes find me depraved and offensive for willfully not adhering to their bleached washed and squeaky clean standards and expectations.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Wonder if there's a corresponding "20 vices essential for foolishness".

I'd rather see "20 things that are neither vice nor virtue but often promoted as such."
Number 1 on the list is sex, which is not a vice, and abstinence which is not any sort of virtue that makes on more morally advanced.
Number 2, the not a vice is just living, the not a virtue is insisting everyone has to live up to your standards or they aren't wise, aren't moral, and worthy of your company.
Number 3 is life. Enjoying it and living it isn't a vice. Saying it's bad and sinful and has to be abstained from isn't virtuous.

 

[syo]

What wisdom? About what?