What do you think of these Twenty Virtues Essential for Wisdom?

[stvdv]

The OP isn't. That's what I was referring to.

You can have your opinion on this of course

 

[Truthseeker]

Your right extends only to action, not to the result of your actions; do not act for the result of your action*, and do not be attached to inaction. (Correct literal translation by Aup.)

I love that wisdom from the Gita.

 

[stvdv]

I personally see wisdom as the ability to read a moral situation and the skill put one's moral principles properly into practice, meaning that it needs to be developed individually and practiced in live situations, and cannot be encompassed by mere lists of words.

The list of 20 are not "mere words" if that is what you imply here

What does "Wisdom" mean to you?

Wisdom is not about "knowledge" (as in bookish knowledge), but Wisdom is about "knowing" (as in knowing the Truth)

 

[Truthseeker]

What do you think of these Twenty Virtues Essential for Wisdom?

Are they do-able, useful, a bit too much, or plain rubbish in your opinion?

You think Wisdom is possible without these, or that more is needed, or something else?

View attachment 53890

The most important of these for wisdom is humility. Cleanliness is good, but don't know how that leads to wisdom. Solitude to think for oneself sometimes is good for wisdom, but that can be overdone. Absence of egotism, how is that different from humility? Detachment leads to discerning truth, which includes discerning wisdom. There are some categories of non attachment there that are covered under detachment. Detachment from ego could be absence of egotism, so detachment could cover absence of ego. Equanimity is detachment from things that happen to you. By devotion I think you mean devotion to God, that is great.

 

[Truthseeker]

Absence of attachment to family? Why? That's anti-social and denying something very deep, normal, and natural for us.

It's not anti-social to me, to me it doesn't mean not having a family or not spending time with the family, to me it means not being needy about wanting the affection of your wife and children. If you needy about wanting the affection of your children, that gets in the way of raising your children to be good people, you need to not spoil them and discipline them sometimes, and they may get mad at you temporarily for that.

Intentionally limiting to what sort of company you'll keep based on "worldly knowledge" rooted in your standards?

Absence in interest in the worldly minded is what it says there, and that means to me not being interested in being friends with those who deny spiritual realities, who think that the material world is all there is, and act accordingly.

 

[stvdv]

Thank you for you reply, I appreciate and like it

The most important of these for wisdom is humility.

I also consider humility very important, and "lack of humility" might be a deal breaker
But humility alone is insufficient, hence I would not call it the most important one

Cleanliness is good, but don't know how that leads to wisdom

Hindu thought is very precise. So, our thoughts, words and deeds need to be clean, where inner cleanliness is very important (thoughts, senses)
Clean utensils, ingredients when preparing food, clean thoughts of the cook, clean thoughts while eating, clean sense impression ... hence my Master and the Dalai Lama called Television TelePoison, which makes sense to me. I hope this clarifies cleanliness a bit. We are what we eat (all senses)

Solitude to think for oneself sometimes is good for wisdom, but that can be overdone

I don't know if it can be overdone, to think for oneself seems good to me, to always think for oneself is always good. But if you mean "think all the time" then I agree, that too much thinking is not good. Hence in Hinduism there is meditation (thoughtless state), to balance "thinking too much"

Absence of egotism, how is that different from humility?

Big difference to me. "Absence of egotism" is absolute, whereas humility has various degrees

By devotion I think you mean devotion to God, that is great.

Also what I thinkt. These come from verses from the Bhagavad Gita.

Absence of egotism, how is that different from humility? Detachment leads to discerning truth, which includes discerning wisdom. There are some categories of non attachment there that are covered under detachment. Detachment from ego could be absence of egotism, so detachment could cover absence of ego

True there is quite some overlap here and there. It does show the importance of detachment and absence of egotism

 

[Hermit Philosopher]

What do you think of these Twenty Virtues Essential for Wisdom?

Are they do-able, useful, a bit too much, or plain rubbish in your opinion?

You think Wisdom is possible without these, or that more is needed, or something else?

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Dear stvdv

I’d say that the qualities in the list of your OP are acquired through wisdom and not so much vice versa.

Wisdom itself is acquired through living and reflecting upon what we have lived. The more varied our experiences have been, the better we understand different circumstances and the more circumstances we truly understand, the more perspectives we can see. The more perspectives we grasp, the less self-centred we become. Then, wisdom grown and all the qualities in the list of your OP are part of that wisdom.

Still, it is not that they are completely achieved, because the mind forgets quickly and perspectives learned, fade with time. The list is achievable, but not without conscious and dedicated care to what has been lived.


Humbly
Hermit

 

[Meow Mix]

I think in terms like this, striving towards the center between deficiency and excess. If the terms are deficient -> balanced <- excessive:

corruption -> integrity <- legalism
foolishness -> discernment <- judgmentalism
selfishness -> love <- enablement
disregard -> respect <- idolatry
pride -> humility <- degradation
slothfulness -> diligence <- workaholism
licentiousness -> temperance <- strictness
cowardice -> courage <- foolhardiness

 

[stvdv]

I’d say that the qualities in the list of your OP are acquired through wisdom and not so much vice versa.

Dear Hermit Philospher,

In the end it does say: Oh Lord, you said that 20 virtues are essential, for becoming entitled to wisdom

 

[stvdv]

I think in terms like this, striving towards the center between deficiency and excess. If the terms are deficient -> balanced <- excessive:
corruption -> integrity <- legalism
foolishness -> discernment <- judgmentalism
selfishness -> love <- enablement
disregard -> respect <- idolatry
pride -> humility <- degradation
slothfulness -> diligence <- workaholism
licentiousness -> temperance <- strictness
cowardice -> courage <- foolhardiness

Wonderful
When I read about Buddha around 1988, the essence I got from it was "The Golden Middle Path" ... My Life Lesson

 

[Hermit Philosopher]

Dear Hermit Philospher,

In the end it does say: Oh Lord, you said that 20 virtues are essential, for becoming entitled to wisdom

I am sure that Krishna was/is wise. I am sure that the asking voice was/is rather wise too. But does it seem likely to you that one would require much wisdom if one had already mastered the list?

It may be a matter of translation and semantics… I would read beyond words, myself.


Humbly
Hermit

 

[stvdv]

But does it seem likely to you that one would require much wisdom if one had already mastered the list?

It may be a matter of translation and semantics… I would read beyond words, myself.

I think you missed my point in my previous reply

I agreed with you, and I pointed out that this was exactly what was implied in the quote in the end

 

[Hermit Philosopher]

I think you missed my point in my previous reply

I agreed with you, and I pointed out that this was exactly what was implied in the quote in the end

I see. Sorry for reading it wrongly.


Humbly
Hermit

 

[Deeje]

I completely misread the title of this thread....I thought it said...

What do you think of these Twenty Viruses Essential for Wisdom?

 

[stvdv]

I see. Sorry for reading it wrongly.

Humbly
Hermit

Dear Hermit,

I think it is good this happened, because there were others who missed that part too
So, thanks for pointing out this important point clearly. It will probably help others

 

[Kenny]

Exactly this is what is meant with "Absence of attachment to family and home"

I see a few people here misinterpreting this line. Absence of attachment means just that. Some people here on RF fill in their own mind here

Furthermore the sixth virtue mentioned in the list is "reverential service rendered to the spiritual teacher". In Hinduism he first teacher is your mother, the second teacher is your father, the third teacher is your guru in Hindu thought, so this doubly shows the importance of respect to parents. Absence of attachment does not mean nor imply "not respecting", it just means "absence of attachment", no more, no less. I hope this clarifies this particular virtue

Do you still disagree with "absence of attachment to family, home" when seeing it in this context, or does it agree with Christian thought about family?

Yes..........no?

I still don't quite grasp the thought of "absence of attachment" but I'm open to better understand. It seems that when he asked John to take care of his mom, there was still "attachment"? (I guess I'm not quite understanding the application of that word)

 

[stvdv]

I completely misread the title of this thread....I thought it said...

What do you think of these Twenty Viruses Essential for Wisdom?

@Deeje ONLY

Understandable:
If someone beats you on the head quite hard you see stars everywhere
If Big Tech brainwashes us with viruses and vaccines we see viruses everywhere

Holland is quite friendly towards people who don't take vaccination
I got a letter twice, saying "you choose yourself if you want the vaccination. It is free of charge"
Easy choice for me, I don't want the vaccination. I have not worried a single minute the past 1,5 year about getting the virus

Good to hear, that you are still alive in the other end of the world. You and Jehova Witnesses inspired me to remember that we can choose what we take or not. I thought about you recently ... have you taken the vaccination? I saw an interview with an Australian woman, and it seemed to me that Australia is quite different from Holland about this whole corona thing, much more strict. My God, we get away still quite easy, compared to the Aussies. Here they even speak about ditching the 1.5 meter rule next month, and masks too. But of course the weather forecast is more trustworthy than our Prime Minister and his corona rules, so I expect it to change any time soon. We did have a little lockdown though, which I enjoyed. Is it true that they are very strict with rules and imposing (esp. guilt) on the Aussies, like I saw in the interview. I don't know what to trust nowadays, so better ask someone living there.

 

[stvdv]

Yes..........no?

I still don't quite grasp the thought of "absence of attachment" but I'm open to better understand. It seems that when he asked John to take care of his mom, there was still "attachment"? (I guess I'm not quite understanding the application of that word)

I might have a good example
Suppose you really like pizza
But then you visit a friend and he serves you rice
Some people will reject, because they are attached to their pizza
But the Wise will understand that both are just food to keep the body going
So, The wise has "absence of attachment", the pizza-junk not

Of course the wise will enjoy his pizza or bowl of rice, but if he does not get it, he stays equal minded ... the junk not (too attached)

 

[Kooky]

The list of 20 are not "mere words" if that is what you imply here


Wisdom is not about "knowledge" (as in bookish knowledge), but Wisdom is about "knowing" (as in knowing the Truth)

Fair enough. I have nothing more to contribute in that case. Good luck!

 

[stvdv]

Fair enough. I have nothing more to contribute in that case. Good luck!

Thank you

You did contribute a useful one, I fully agree that practicing in live situations is what it is all about

I personally see wisdom as the ability to read a moral situation and the skill put one's moral principles properly into practice, meaning that it needs to be developed individually and practiced in live situations